Hi! So, New_BeginningsII has asked me more than once to look into publishing some of the things that I've written. I've brushed her off and assured her that I would get to it eventually, ducked and claimed that no one would want to read my ramblings, and generally tried to get out of it. But she's persistent in her quiet way, and I'm finally in a place where I'm willing to be open to the possibility of writing as more than just a boring way to pay the bills. (I'm a management consultant for the Federal Government in my day job. I write many boring documents.)

So, Mulan and Neak and AM Martin (I think) and any others out there who are writers-for-pay, could you give me some references and thoughts?

I would probably start with a book about the simple pleasures -- that's what most people seem to like about my writing. Trips to the park with my daughter, making a good meal, things like that. I dunno why anyone would -pay- to read those things, but, well, I'm willing to believe that they might. So... with only that as my initial thought, where do I go from here?

Thanks much!

I reckon the first thing you should do is gift yourself a subscription to Writer's Digest and Writer's Market. Begin with articles, and work up to books. It order to make money out of writing, you need to write smart, ie. write queries, not full articles, and book proposals, not books. Send out bulk queries and proposals and write articles and books ONLY when commissioned to do so. (This ensures less wasted time; also, a publication is more likely to buy an article specifically slanted to them in voice, tone, and content.)

I was just going to say start with magazines first, but RT beat me to it!

Like so many areas of life, this is another that for me is mostly 'do as I say, not as I do'. I did write a couple of magazine articles when I was in my late teens/early twenties, but then jumped straight to books.

I did do a proposal as soon as I had the first few chapters done, but I believed so strongly in my subject material that I would have written it even if a publisher had not expressed any interest.

Side note: the money from articles, even though it is smaller, comes in much faster than the money from books - months instead of years.

It sounds like you might do well to do a series of short stories. If several were picked up by one of the places you found in Writer's Digest, it might be time to talk to them about a book-size collection of short stories, if you don't have one story idea large enough to sustain a whole book.

Another fun thing which I have only now just discovered, is once you have a book, and get it on Amazon, you can apply for their Amazon Shorts program, in which you submit short stories, which they then sell as ebooks for $.49/each, and you get 40% royalties. That can add up when you're talking about someplace that big. (I'm still working on my first short story for them, and they said it takes about 2 weeks from the time of submission until it is available online.)

Hope that gives you a few ideas to get the creative juices flowing. There's something very special about seeing your work in print, and I really hope you get to experience that.

JJ,

My favorite of yours was the one about the daffodils...I loved that one. Should go see if I can find it and read it again.

Gardens and women, and little girls. Yes, you are very good in your writings about the simples pleasures.

JJ,
Do you, by any chance, read Craig Wilson's column in USA Today? It's called "The Final Word". He often writes about simple pleasures. And he's really good, IMO. You'll find several weeks worth of his work on the USA Today web site.

I have a freind who writes a similar column in a tiny local newspaper near her town. Little community papers are always looking for material. My friend got started by writing a letter to the editor. When they printed it... she hounded the editor to let her become a regular contributor... and in no time at all, she had her own column. How are you at "selling yourself"?

--SC

Community papers are great, with one caveat: DO NOT ACCEPT PUBLICATION WITHOUT PAY. Writing has got to be the one job where the workers are encouraged to work for no pay in the name of "experience" and "clips". Don't fall for it. These are usually cheapskate editors and publications, and the content invariably reflects this. You're ALWAYS better off being paid, no matter if it's half a penny a word.

While on the subject of pay: Angela Hoy's weekly newsletter lists ONLY paying markets, and she is unapologetically damning of publications that don't pay. Join up - it's free, and packed full of info.

JJ, how big is your town? Where I live, there are several small publications that are always looking for contributors, and not just the weekly papers... magazines! You might want to check it out to see if there's anything like that where you live. Sometimes it's easy to start small and branch out when you have more confidence.

I do a lot of writing for my job. I was a newspaper reporter but now I'm in PR. I've contributed to local publications many, many time, but like RT warns about, it's unpaid. I don't feel right accepting pay from the publication when I'm already being paid from my gov't job to write them to begin with! But with the experience I have, I have been thinking about branching out to paid freelancing on the side.

Wow, thanks for the thoughts, everyone. One other thing I need, I think, is some kind of structure for working on this stuff. Any advice from you all about how to do that? I have a full-time job, a hefty volunteering schedule, my daughter's with me three days and two nights a week, and I've got this guy in Ohio (HoFS) who would like to see me regularly. I've juggled lots of schedule stuff before, so I don't necesssarily see a problem in juggling this, too -- I'd just like to know how others successfully structure their writing and submitting and reviewing and researching and all that stuff.

RT and Neak both suggested starting with magazines, SmartCookie and SadMommy suggested community newspapers. I live in the suburbs of Washington DC (Bethesda, if anyone knows the area), so there are a fair number of outlets for writing, from tiny to gigantic. The last time I decided to try to get something published, I sent an article around (I don't even remember which one) to various small venues, with no response.

I did have a letter published in the Bethesda Gazette a few months ago, about those nasty infidelity cards. It never occurred to me to try to parlay that into a regular column. I also had a letter published in the Washington Blade a year or so ago. (That one was about the Miller-Jenkins case, which is very sad.) Another opportunity missed. But I'll keep it in mind for the future.

Now I'm going to print out my 50-page policy document for the review meeting this afternoon. I'm not the principle author on this, just the principle editor and reviewer. Writing by committee is so much fun....

***I reckon the first thing you should do is gift yourself a subscription to Writer's Digest and Writer's Market.***

That's what I was going to say, too. Writers' Digest mag is the best place to start. Join their book club for a while. They will have selections on both fiction and non-fiction.

Which are you aiming for, by the way? It sounds like you are writing essays right now. If you want to write professionally - as in, "get paid for it" - you have to know exactly the market you want to hit.

***Begin with articles, and work up to books.***

That's how I did it. I wrote about 100 articles for horse magazines and have sold and re-sold those for literally the last 20 years. After the articles, I tried novels. I finished twelve and sold nine of them - ten if you count the one written in collaboration with a friend. (Only the first two didn't sell. One was a *Star Trek* novel. Go figure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

***It order to make money out of writing, you need to write smart, ie. write queries, not full articles, and book proposals, not books. Send out bulk queries and proposals and write articles and books ONLY when commissioned to do so. (This ensures less wasted time;***

I will disagree a bit here. As a new writer, you may be able to sell an *article* with just a query letter, but no publisher worth dealing with will buy a book from an unpublished author on just a query. You can sell a book/novel on a query after you have a track record of finishing saleable books, but not before.

This is because so many writers just never do finish that first book. I have seen many new authors shoot themselves in the foot because they work on the first three chapters for ten years, finally submit them somewhere, and then panic when an editor asks to see the complete manuscript and there ain't no such animal. The editor is not going to wait more than a couple of weeks for you to send the complete, but nobody I know can finish writing a book in less than two weeks and have it be anything that anybody would want to read.

***also, a publication is more likely to buy an article specifically slanted to them in voice, tone, and content.***

I'll go a bit further here and say that any article *must* be aimed directly at what that publication says it wants. *Writers' Market* will tell you the details on this, and these days virtually any book or mag publisher has its own website with writers' guidelines.

Last thing for now - be very, very careful of scams. Now that every Tom, [censored] and Harry can put up a website and claim to be a publisher, make sure they are legit before you send them your work. Said work coud disappear and end up anywhere, meaning you don't get paid while they run roughshod over your copyright. Sure, you could sue, but it's usually not worth the time and expense. Just be careful.

Anything else I can try to answer?
Mulan

Now this is another example of writing smart. The same articles can be tweaked and changed endlessly and sold to many different publications. This also applies to research and interviews. If you do one lot of research, or one interview, you should get LOTS of articles out of it, not just one.

Mulan, I don't disagree with you (although I have known many beginning writers who sold articles on queries, albeit on spec to begin with). It could well be that JJ can start by selling ready-written articles or essays, but eventually, if she's going to make a living out of this, she's going to have to start querying in bulk.

Hey J, look at you go! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yep, Writer's Market. A MUST-HAVE!

I've been published on the internet (yeah, me and about six thousand million gazillion others <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> - but I digress)... and I've begun a novel or two in my time... and have a couple of articles in magazines, but not for years. Many magazines won't take cold copy anymore. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Of course, you could do an e-book, or self-publish. I have some links I'll search for and get them to you. Some self-published works have been VERY SUCCESSFUL (Think "The Celestine Prophecy")...

I'm interested in this thread, too... because I just happen to have a 165 page (half finished, of course) murder mystery that's crying out to be finished (a little different that what you write - LOL)... and a little bird told me that it would be a best seller. Okay, it was my mother. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I suggest you join a local writers group...

I found one in my area on meetup.com
Only meet once a month...for a few hours BUT it is a huge huge wealth of information and face to face knowledge gathering....

also I love to hear people read their stories....

seriously do this...
the information is well worth the time...

I recently submitted a short story to a local papers short fiction contest...

fun!!

also justj..
whatever you are writing make sure you are reading it outloud...
it's magic..

ARK

I wonder what it would take to catch paradise_blue's views? Or completelylost's?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And thank you, J, for beginning this marvelous thread. I needed it to propel me off of MB to finish re-reading this novel from my writing group...due by June 25th.

Ark? Others? What if in your writing group, you're the least productive, and most respected for opinion? I am caught in loving the writer and not liking this work right now...could be the last year and half doing it chapter by chapter, doled out over the whole year...and losing my own momentum...

I've changed in this last year a lot...and now the work is difficult...doesn't hold my interest...is full of what I liked before and now consider rudimentary. How on earth do you tell a writer you love that it's me, not you? I have to come clean...and knowing, Mulan, that you didn't sell your first two books helps me out in this arena. Thank you!

Appreciate any responses...and am slipping J a ten-spot for threadjacking a bit.

LA

I LOVE paradiseblue's writing. I read there everyday, and have only posted once.

Okay, I've been to the Writer's Market web page and stared at it for a bit.

Then I went to the Writer's Digest web page and stared at THAT for a while.

Uhmmmmm. Okay. So what do I -do- with these things once I've got them?

And what, please, is a bulk query?

A bit over five years ago I took a sabbatical from work. One of the things I did in that six weeks was write a short science fiction/fantasy story. I joined an online writers' group (required reviews, submissions, etc.) and found that it worked quite well for me. They liked my writing style, and found my storyline and character motivations to be weak. All in all, a fair assessement, I think. Are there online writers' groups for other things? Because the chances of me making it to a real writers' group are essentially zero.

Neak asked WHAT I want to write. Darned good question. There's lots I want to write, including a book about love and marriage based on the stuff I've done in my school of coaching. (Combine the Pope's Encyclical on Love with the Dalai Lama's ethics, Helen Fisher's research on biochemistry, Stosny's work on compassion and abuse, the 15 principles of coaching, stir vigorously, and see what comes out...)

Really, though? I want to publish the story of the first night that DD said, as we walked home at dusk, "Home, Mama. Home." That seems to me to be the essence of what living is all about. That's what I'd really like to see published. Because, well, as I keep telling Penny, I'm never going to be famous for the weird stuff. Front page of the Washington Post for a baby? Ayup, that's about right.

(I read her journal posts, Believer...and if I remember correctly, she publishes articles for a living...and CompletelyLost is an editor...though I suspect in technical writing...I could be wrong on that one)

The parentheses mean I'm whispering to believer, so pretend you don't hear, 'k?

LA

(I didn't know she was a writer, but her writing is very relaxing- even the everyday stuff. A couple of months ago she wrote about loving someone and letting them go. It was EXCELLENT)

(Was that the post where she was in the kitchen with OW and she described the dust storm of pain? Incredible.)

You read, read, read, read, read. Writing for a living is not the same as writing. Many writers who would do it for a living are amazed at how little writing (in relation to querying, researching, networking, etc) you have to do! And they balk. Welllll... don't balk. If it's going to be a living, you really need to educate yourself, and you need to do all that non-writing stuff (which is actually kinda fun if you get into the spirit of "This writing stuff is MY CAREER!").



A query is a letter you send to a publication asking them if they would be interested in your article (you have to provide specifics). Bulk queries are just LOTS of queries sent out at once! You can also have a bulk query which is basically a two- or three-page circular with LOTS of queries on it (one paragraph per article idea) which you send to lots of editors at once; you put a box next to each article idea, and include SASE. The editor checks the boxes of the articles he/she is interested in, and sends it back to you. (Be forewarned you have to tell the editor to check a maximum of three boxes, or you might be deluged, and also that queries are on a "first in best dressed" basis.)



Oh, yeah. There's squillions of them. Run a search on Google, and on Yahoo groups.


Ah - the personal essay, my favorite form. Well, go for it. Well-written personal essays are pure GOLD. The last page of a magazine is often dedicated to a personal essay. Have a look at the last page of several mags that have these essays, and slant a piece to them. (Note: you do NOT need to send out queries for short stories and personal essays, unless their writers' guidelines say otherwise.)

RiverTam, thanks very much for all the info! I like being able to put a name to things. For example:


So that's what that's called! I never knew.

And yes, it does seem to me that writing (which is what I do probably eight hours a day right now) is very different than writing-for-a-living. Surely the latter would require marketing.

I'm not great at marketing in its traditional sense. However, my boss is a masterful marketer -- by being himself, which for him is being the best college professor you ever saw. I'll have to think about what I look like when I'm the best [something] you ever saw.

Oh, and thanks for the info about bulk queries. Sounds like an interesting approach.

Will it work if I use the online subscriptions to Writer's Digest and Writer's Market? I tend not to read printed stuff that shows up in the house very often, but I can read a web site.