I haven't even been married a year, but something occured recently to really shake things up.

I keep a MySpace journal for venting, recording my thoughts, and getting feedback from close friends. All personal posts are marked as Preferred List only, and only about 4 of my closest friends have access to that. There are two different types of private posts that go up there.

1) Irrational rants that are caused by fights or frustrations, the types of things you would write on a piece of paper and the burn it, becase once you got it out, it's no longer a problem.

2) Things I'd like to talk to my wife or friends about, but I can't find the words or figure out how to broach the topic. Writing it down helps me sort out my thoughts, and I give access to a few of my close friends so that I can get some feedback on this, and have a perspective other than that in my own head. Why don't I use a pen and paper journal? Because those don't have the kind of privacy that an online one offers.

Here's the issue...my wife searched me out on MySpace, found my site, and when trying to access my blog entries was informed it was for Preferred List members only. Rather than accept this, or ask me about the content, or even ask to be added to the Preferred List, she felt the need to login to my account as me while I was at work. I don't restrict access to my computer, and she knows the general password variations I tend to use for email and such...I trusted her to stay out. She hasn't done something like this since we were dating 3 years ago...I really thought we were beyond this kind of insecurity.

I knew she'd done it the moment I got home because she was in a bad mood, and some of the comments she made were exact copies of language I had used in my posts. I also checked the router log and noted that my computer had accessed MySpace while I was at work...the only mutual friend she and I had on MySpace at the time was my closest high school friend, who never would have gossiped about what was in my blog. I didn't want to jump to a false conclusion though, so I acted like nothing was wrong...later that night she confessed.

By the time she had done this, she and I had already had a major discusison about things in our relationship that were bothering us (the stuff that would fall into category 2 above). It wasn't an argument, it was truly a shared discussion that resulted in both of us feeling a lot better and giving us something to work on to better our relationship. So there wasn't a single category 2 item in my blog that I hadn't already talked to her about and been open and honest with her regarding.

Now I had to explain to her the category 1 things, and why I didn't feel the need to bring them up, and why they were just frustrated rants, and not truly something that bothered me on a regular basis. I'm still not sure she understands.

Regardless of the exact content of any of the entries, I'm really at a loss as to how to deal with this. I'm hurt, angry, and my trust level of her went from complete and total, to next to nothing (though I did stop short of setting up individual login accounts on my computer...I did change passwords for email and MySpace though). I also assured her that despite the fact she doesn't login-protect her computer, and I also know most of her password-variations, that I have never and will never go into her email or online journals without her express permission. The only times I've ever read her online journals have been when she has given me the adress to them, and even then there were some entries marked private - I never pried.

This is something I expected of the jealous insecure girl I started dating 3 years ago, not the confident self-assured wife that I thought she had turned into in the intervening years.

I'm hoping some perspective from writing this down, and from feedback with people of different views, will show me the proper path to take, or at least give me a hint of how to deal with this.

Have you asked her why she felt the need to look? In general people don't look unless they feel insecure/jealous/fear for some reason. Is that the case here?

What about your myspace page upset her? What about her snooping is bothering you?

What have you read in Basic Concepts? Are there other pressing issues?

Her response to why is "I don't know what made me do it"...which to me is a cop-out.

She's very likely still jealous of the relationship I have with my best friend, who happens to be female. That was a long-standing issue from our dating years, that I THOUGHT we had cleared up.

The very fact that she snooped is what bothers me...it's a trick she used to pull when she was an insecure college kid...like I mentioned, she hasn't done it in years...clearly she isn't secure in our relationship. Her response in regards to this was along the lines of "everything was going good, we were happy, and nothing was wrong...that always means something's about to go wrong, I was just waiting for the other shoe to drop" (paraphrase). What she did is look so hard, that she made the other shoe drop.

As I mentioned in the original post, yeah we've got other issues, and there were some things on my blog that upset her...but those were all things we sat down and discussed before she snooped, or were 1 day rants that once I got out, were no longer issues. We had a very long and honest talk about 6 days before this happened, where we brought up our problems, our disappointments, and what we needed from each other. We were very clear, very understanding, and both felt much better after that talk...we've also both been making visible efforts to address the issues we discussed since then.

I find myself in agreeance with a lot of what I've read in the Basic Concepts. To be honest, this is really the first thing about our relationship that caught me completely off guard. She and I have been getting much better over the past few months at sharing with each other, attending to each other's needs, being open and honest, solving our problems, compromising...I mean she said it all when she said things were going great...after we had that talk they really were going the best they had in months.

So this incident really blindsided me...she and I are both working on the issues that have come up since it happened, and we're doing a pretty good job of it...but I've got this anger and hurt and trust issue, and I'm not really sure what to do about it. She and I talk about it, and she has apologized for snooping, but it doesn't make it go away...and it certainly doesn't bring back all the trust I had in her to begin with.

The contents of my posts aren't at issue here...she and I are working through the issues brought up by those with success. What I don't have a solution to is the breach of trust part of this whole thing.

Here are two things you should keep in mind:

1. Nothing written/transmitted online is secure.
2. Women are nosey.

Speaking as a woman, I can tell you that the reason that women snoop is that we are worried that something is going on. You mention that your wife has had a continuing issue with you being very good friends with a woman. You also say that you thought the issue was cleared up. More likely what happened was your girlfriend at the time realized that you wouldn't drop this old friend, no matter how much it worried her, and she stopped mentioning it. The trouble is, every time you and your wife have a spat, she thinks, "aha, he must be secretly having an affair, that's why he's not being x, y or z".

You won't like to hear this...but you should NOT have a BEST friend of the opposite sex once you are married. You can be "friends", and even share casual conversation, email, whatever. But your wife should be your best friend otherwise your marriage won't work.

I know this is supposed to be a modern world where men and women are more or less equal. But somethings just haven't changed yet.

Good luck with this.

::after writing this out, it says what I want it to, but I'd like to clarify that this is in no way a personal attack...your comments just happened to incite some major sticking points I have...my response is directed at today's society in general. I understand what you say, where you come from, and even agree about the current state of things...I just refuse to accept it::

You know, I've heard that other places too...and you know what, if I can't be married and have a best friend, then I'd rather not be married.

I'm not going to downgrade the status of someone important in my life because I've made a commitment to my wife. There is nothing in our vows or contract that state I am no longer allowed to have best friends. That's just bull...and to make the distinction between best male friends and best female friends is just discriminatory and sexist. And there is nothing in my relationship with my best friend that is preventing me from being a good husband and partner to my wife...nor is there anything in my marriage that is preventing me from being a good friend to my best friend. The only reason these two relationships could not co-exist is because of selfish jealousy, and I'm not about to cater to that.

I refuse to believe that I cannot have two people occupying different parts of my life and different parts of my heart...it's selfish for either one of them to expect to occupy the entirety of either, and my best friend is the only one currently not suggesting I go that route.

I left my girlfriend for my current wife because she had put me in a "me or her" situation...anyone that puts me in that situation is going to lose, I don't care who it is. I know my wife isn't making an ultimatum like that, but it sure sounds like people see this as a "me or her" deal...

If society isn't keeping up with my ideals of equality, that's no reason for me to compromise my ideals...maybe I'm just ahead of the times in my thinking...but I'll be damned if I sacrifice a friendship for a marriage...the only path that can lead to is resentment.

Sharing personal information with anyone about fights that you had with your wife is very disrespectful to her. I think there is a big difference between just journaling to vent your frustrations and actually having others be privy to that private information. I think she was certainly entitled to be upset at finding that out. For that matter, she was entitled to know what other information you are giving to others about her.

Once again we're missing the point...she may have been entitled to know those things, but she was not entitled to hack into my account, nor does the other circumstances surrounding this event make it any less wrong. Please stop trying to justify fraud.

How is what I did any different than her going out with her girlfriends and complaining about me over drinks? My friend happens to live halfway across the country, so I don't have that luxury...but I can assure you I've been the topic of many girls-night-out venting sessions. I don't see why what I did is any different from that.

Getting back to the real issue at hand, I've heard no real advice about how I should be dealing with these feelings of anger and hurt that my wife felt the need and went through with hacking into my computer account.

No, the point is YOU were dishonest by not telling her this existed. She should not have HAD to go looking through your computer and would not have if she was aware of your actions. She felt the need because of YOUR failure to be open and honest.

personally, i feel you should not be married if you feel the need to keep such secrets from your spouse. you should be eachothers best friends and confidants.
have you read the policy of radical honesty on this site?

left my girlfriend for my current wife because she had put me in a "me or her" situation...anyone that puts me in that situation is going to lose, I don't care who it is. I know my wife isn't making an ultimatum like that, but it sure sounds like people see this as a "me or her" deal...

So you left your ex girlfried for you current wife - who was just a "friend" at the time????? Maybe that is why your wife is insecure??

I think most people don't see this as fraud. She's your wife and should have access to those accounts and what you are sharing with others about your marriage. For the record, I don't believe she should be out making you the topic of conversation to her friends either.... especially not a male friend.

As for getting past your own feeling of violation and hurt, please read below and you'll understand my answer at the end.

Sorry it's so long. I can't get anything out in a short post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


When you made a commitment to your wife and got married you lowered the status of EVERYONE else. Or rather you elevated her status above everyone else. There should be no other relationship more important than this one. If it is not more important you need to ask yourself why.


I disagree with this. You probably promised to "love, honor and cherish". How do you honor or cherish if you continue to have such an intimate (not meaning sexual) relationship that makes your wife uncomfortable or uneasy? It seems to me (and I could be totally off base here, I'm only going by the tone and wording in your post) that you cherish your friendship more than your marriage. There is also that "forsaking all others" part of most vows. That doesn't just mean not sleeping with others. You promised to forsake all others that are not a friend to your marriage. That marriage is made up of two people.


Maybe so. The fact of the matter is though that you're much less likely to develop an inappropriate relationship with a man. Period. No one plans on an affair. No one plans on falling for their 'best friend' or their spouses 'best friend'. It happens all the time though. And regardless of whether or not an inappropriate relationship will ever develop between you and your best friend, it makes your wife uncomfortable. How can you honor and cherish when you are deliberately acting in a way that causes your wife to feel unsafe?


You are not being a partner when acting in direct opposition to what makes her feel safe.

No. But there should be...the fact that the relationship causes tension and division in your marriage.


This is a harsh statement and one that you need to look at, IMO. What is causing the jealousy? I too would feel that way if my spouse felt that his relationship with ANYONE... male or female... was more important than protecting me, making me feel safe, guarding our marriage. If he ever made the statement that if he couldn't be friends with the man that was our best man that he would rather not be married, I would be hurt and jealous. Now, if was a woman he said it about I would be devestated and doubly jealous. I would certainly not feel loved, honored or cherished to know that our marriage was that disposable to him.


Do you not see the danger in this statement. You have a place in your life and heart that does not only not include, but actively EXCLUDES, your wife. And there is another woman in that place. Yeah...I'd have to say that is an absolute boundary I would have too.


"Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?" What is more important to you. Now, I personally don't think you're right... but you do. We're all different. That's okay. But realize that you are putting your marriage in last place here.


I don't see it that way. I see your wife being uncomfortable because she is clearly not the priority. She doesn't feel safe. Maybe she would feel differently if she was more important than the friendship. She SHOULD be the most important woman and person in your life.

The two of you are on such different places on this because you have both taken such a defensive stance. How about safe, honest discussion? What about listening to what her concerns are instead of dismissing them as selfish and juvenile? I wouldn't feel comfortable in opening up my heart and soul to get to the nitty gritty of my feelings either if I feared that would be the result. I'm a pretty open person when it comes to talks like that but I don't know if I could put myself out there like that if I didn't feel honored and cherished enough to know my husband was going to listen to my fears, accept them and protect me.


Ouch. I know I said those exact same words at one time in my life. I know I said them out loud to more than one person I dated.

I honestly know where you are coming from here and that's why I'm writing to you.

I am married to a man who is NOT comfortable with my having good friends of the opposite sex. I know that and therefore do not maintain close friendships that would make him uncomfortable. Why? Because he is the most important person in my life. None of those friendships are worth making him feel uncomfortable or unsafe.

He is my partner. When I married him I chose him above all others - male or female. This relationship is first and foremost in my life.

No friend, no family, no activity comes before him.

I'm no doormat. I have a very successful career, friends, family, activities I love and enjoy. I'm fiesty and insist on equal respect and dedication from him.

I didn't come to understand this "no opposite sex friends" thing easily. I picked it apart, I looked at his motivation behind that belief and my motivation and reasons for believing it should be okay. After all, I had been married for 11 years before and had opposite sex friends, as had my X, and there was never any problem with my friends.

In the end I saw that while those friends were important to me and I would miss the close friendships, I couldn't make the lifelong commitment to honor and cherish my husband AND at the same time engage in something that made him uncomfortable. Marriage and the commitment to him changed both of our lives and neither of our lives would be the same or uniquely our own.

That's a big (and difficult) reality. Marriage isn't easy or without sacrafice. It shouldn't be easy or without sacrafice.

I haven't totally lost contact with some of those friends. But the CLOSE relationship was halted. When I do have contact with those male friends my husband knows. I do not go anywhere with one without him. I never confide intimate details of my marriage and NEVER EVER go to a male with complaints or problems about my marriage.

I would suggest reading the information on Policy of Joint Agreement. I would also suggest possibly finding someone who can facilitate a safe and honest dialoge with both of you. I get the feeling you don't find your wife's feeling to be valid and she isn't being honest with you about the depth of her feelings about your friendship.

When you both start talking honestly about those feelings I believe you will get to the bottom of her looking into your myspace writings. I also think you will be better able to deal with your own sense of violation from her looking at it. Both of your feelings here are valid and real. You need to be able to communicate it though.

JMO - Sorry this is so long but this is something I too fought long and hard through. It wasn't until I did my "deep overthinking" that I was able to see that my husbands beliefs weren't about control or jealously or selfishness and was able to really listen to what he was saying. It wasn't until then that I realized that my insistance he was "selfish and jealous" came from my own need for control and independance. When I felt that was challenged I automatically went on the defense and dug my heels in deeper.

Just something to consider from someone who has been through it.

FIM

Faithinme, I want to thank you so much for your post. I don't fully agree with everything you wrote, but that wasn't the point of me coming here. It was the most thorough, honest, thought-provoking and non-inflamatory post I've seen here to date. You've given me exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for, and I've got a lot to consider. Thank you for taking the time to give me such insights.

No problem. I hope it helps.

I was thinking about his while making lunch and wanted to point out one more thing really quick.

If you are presenting your feelings about your friendship to your wife in the way you did in your post (if I can't have my friendship I'd rather not be married, etc.) it could seem to be - and would be to me - as aligning your friendship against your marriage with you on the side of the friendship.

That's very likely to put a person - again, it would me - into a mode to protect at all costs.

Her snooping would be akin to spying on the enemy almost. If you're in a war for your marriage or your husband you are going to snoop, spy and protect in any way.

Standing down and being sure to align yourself with your marriage rather than the friendship, or better yet taking the competition feeling out of it entirely, could create an entirely new dynamic for both of you.

Have a great day.

FIM

There are several articles on this very site that can outline for you the danger and dynamics of the ideals that you espouse.

They may also give you some insight re your wifes feelings of insecurity.

Why not read them and post your thoughts as a reply?

Incidentally..I have a few thoughts and would be interested in hearing your perspective on them.

Here goes..

You said that you left one girlfriend for your current wife because she forced a choice.

To me..this says that you are no stranger to carrying on multiple romances at once and that you fiercely guard your independence.

That having one woman fill one role and yet another fill some other role is the norm and is comfortable for you.

That may work out [although it sounds like not based on your description of your history] when you are dating..but not in a marriage.

When you are married that dynamic is called having an affair.

Sex or no sex..it is still an affair.

Shock you?

I believe it. I would have been shocked as well..and quite rebellious toward the idea I must admit in my younger days when I had been married fewer years.

I have learned though..the hard way..that failing to have complete investment in my spouse and failing to have protective boundaries around the marriage that include complete openness and complete [even if uncomfortable] honesty..and here is the one that's gonna make you cringe.. integrity..which means wholeness..which is the opposite of compartmentalization..is absoloutely essential to a successfull marriage.

What you are doing with your friend is compartmentalizing..separating your life into more than one piece..the piece that is your wifes..and the piece that belongs to others..maybe your friend here..your parents there..coworkers..you get the idea.

This is also very dangerous..because sooner or later..either all of the pieces come together or you experience large scale entropy and it all comes apart.

I can not emphasize this last part enough..it is so very essential that it is literally impossible to exaggerate the importance of it.

Why did your wife snoop?

She snooped because she does not trust you. She does not trust you to protect her and to protect the marriage.

That speaks volumes..not about her maturity..but about her faith in you as her husband.

Is that insecurity unfounded?

Absolutely not.

You have a history of affair style relationships.

You have a history of failing to enforce or even recognize as legitamite the very personal boundaries that would indeed protect your marriage.

She herself has played the role of "other woman" in your life at one time..in fact was an element in the break up of another relationship.

There is a part of your life that is closed to her.

She shouldn't need to hack your accounts..there is no such thing as privacy in a marriage. I can tell already you will buck against that concept..but as there is absolutely no decision that you can make..no conversation that you can have..no relationship that you can nurture that does not *directly* affect her..she has both a right and a vested interest in any and all of your activities.

She is bound to you..anything that you do with yourself and to yourself you also do to her..so the idea that she should just stay out of it is quite absurd.


Things that are hurtfull to your spouse..whether it be putting her in a position of ignorance about areas of your life that she is excluded from thus putting her in a position of ignorance about her *own* life..or whether it is airing your dirty laundry as conversation piece while out with friends.. are wrong..and are very damaging to your marriage.

You both should be able to trust each other..because your behavior is trustworthy.

Do not recoil that your wife does not trust you blindly..this only means that she is not a fool and is invested in the marriage...she *cares* about what might be going on that she doesn't know about. Blind trust is very foolish and frankly naive.

Adults know that they themselves have frailties and temptations..responsible adults know better than to put themselves and their marriages in harms way by trusting themselves to be ABOVE temptation.

Men and women who become educated about the dynamics of human relationships and who take stock with regard to the investment of marriage take great pains to allow no one and nothing to come between themselves and their spouse.

Anything less is frankly abandonment of the marriage prematurely of actually leaving it.

There is no more intimate relationship than man and wife. Yet sadly so many approach marriage as though it were advanced dating..and treat is just as expendably.

You sound like a renter, not a buyer.

If I were your wife I would be terrified. I would be withdrawing rather than snooping because your lack of committment and refusal to open your life to me could only end in the dissolution of the marriage by one means or another..an affair being the most likely candidate given your historical behavior as well as your current. I would save myself the pain by not being emotionally invested to the extent that I couldn't walk away. I would protect myself... yet what an unfullfilling experience in the meanwhile. I have a choice of waiting for the other shoe to drop while making life molding, long term affect decisions in favor of a relationship I suspect will not be permanent while being invested or uninvested.

No person would voluntarily assume that position..I am certain that you would reject it..so do not be shocked that your wife has also.

As much as I hate to say it..from here it does not look as though either of you have the tools or education or natural instinct or habitual boundaries to nurture this marriage long term.

Don't feel bad..neither does the vast majority of the worlds population..after all..not only is it not a model we can emulate from childhood observation..many of the ideals currently in vogue actively work against the principles that sustain, excercise, and safeguard the marriage as an asset of great worth.

These skills can be learned though..the hardest battles will be fought with yourself..as is the case in all worthwhile endeavors.

Excellent post, Noodle. I've always admired the way you can break things down.

FIM