Slow down pc.

Very rarely do WSs follow through their fantasy to just up and leave - especially when children are involved.

Taking your son without your permission could be kidnapping. Guess who'll win that episode?

A good time to confront her would be in the presense of the MC - if you are continuing MC. Conventional wisdom here is that MC is a waste of $$ while an affair is ongoing. So, if you have appointments scheduled in the near term, take advantage of that to lay out what you know. If you don't have appointments scheduled, recommend you not spend any more money (unless you detect real value in return) and confront her with some undeniable evidence, but not all. You have to do this calmly and with the pretense that you have NO INTEREST in divorce.

WAT

WAT,

Thanks for the reality check. This is all happening so fast. The e-mails i read talk about how she can't wait for them to be together and she wants that to happen for them sooner rather than later. Is this all fog talk?

We've got a session with a MC this friday. Is that a good time to expose? My proof is an e-mail i have that i got from hacking into her work e-mail. that will cut off that line of snooping for me and that's been my best source thus far.

i met with the mc by myself this morning and it was good to talk through. my ww knows i went and was okay with it, i guess. her exact words were i don't care what you do. should i continue seeing the mc by myself? it costs my $18 each time, but it's good to get some things off my chest.

For $18 a session, keep going. Is that an after insurance figure?

Yep, fog talk right from the script. Try to see the humor in it. Remind you of an adolescent? - a teenie bopper?


Yes, I think so - if you can wait that long. Can you use evidence that doesn't reveal such a valuable source - and gives her ammo to ridicule you about busting into her work e-mail?

WAT

How should i interpret this?

I just read another e-mail and my wife is meeting with her boss tonight for her annual review. Her boss is not in the same state as her so she is in town visiting. My wife had mentioned in an earlier email to om that her company was opening an office up near where om lives.

in her most recent e-mail ww mentions that she is excited to speak to her boss about the "office in om's part of country". is this still fog talk or do i need to be genuinely concerned?

Please help?

It's part of her fantasy. She's building castles in the sky.

Yes, you should be concerned, but I for one am not surprised by such behavior. Very typical. You should continue to be on the lookout for specific plans for such a move. So far, it's LaLa Land fantasy. When you detect specific plans, and if they include your son, then you need to get legal protection.

WAT

Sorry to inject pc, but it sounds to me like WW is making plans to bail, she may be panning on bailing without your son as well, or maybe she just might think it's okay to take him with. I doubt she'll just leave without telling you though. I would imagine that if her boss offers her a job in OM's AO, then she'll move forward with whatever plan she has made, if not, she'll have to wait.

I would expose to her, but like others have said have the proof. I exposed to me WW my source, and withing the hours all her passwords were changed, and she refuses to even use our home computers now.

When she finds out you got her e-mail account be prepared to be called all kinds of names and be told how you invaded her privacy and she may even threaten legal action, mine hinted at it.
Good luck

I've got the proof but i don't know that i want to show or tell her how i got it. she will probably suspect me of reading her e-mails and stop using the home computer as well.

i guess she may come home tonight and tell me she is leaving and moving to om's part of country. i should prepare myself for how i am going to handle that. this all started 1.5 weeks ago. can i truly believe that she would up and move our son away from me that quickly. she has said over and over that she wants to make sure that our son has me in his life. she has said that she would give me joint custody. what i don't know is how i'm supposed to get joint custody if she is 800 miles away.

Started 1.5 weeks ago, huh?

What does that tell you about her rationality?


Nope, you don't go for that, OK?

If she announces she wants to leave - which I don't expect anytime soon - you say, "Well, OK, I'd prefer you don't. Son and I will miss you." That's all you say about it. Let her rant and rave.

Her taking your son IS NOT AN OPTION.

Joint custody IS NOT AN OPTION.

Draw the line in the sand. State your position.

Understand?

In her LaLa Land fantasy, everything turns out hunky dory and everyone is happy. La de da. In her stupor, she probably actually believes this.

Again, I don't think she'll leave soon. BUT - if she does, the sooner the better. What rational person will sympathize with a woman who left her family 1.5 weeks after starting a new romance? Hmmmmm? That just doesn't make sense.

Assuming she's so desperate to leave for Mr. Right that she'll take off without your son, that could be the best of the worst. Go ahead - make yourself look stooooopid.

You, on the other hand, come across as the bastion of family values by advocating for your marriage AND not letting go of your son.

The first instant she makes real plans to leave, you go see a lawyer. Go sooner if you want. Get all the info about what it takes to make sure your son is protected.

OK?

WAT

Ditto WAT.

She goes nowhere with your son.

Make it happen in a legal way..regardless of what steps you have to do to force the issue.

IF they say that they can't prevent his mother from taking him out of state without legal separation..get legally separated..don't make a piece of paper into more than it is..making and enforcing boundaries such as..if you go..you go alone..are extremely helpfull to your cause regardless of what legal steps you need to take in order to make it a reality.

Does anyone know from a legal standpoint if i did anything illegal by going into her work e-mail to view and copy the e-mails between ww & om?

I haven't consulted an attorney yet but I'm sure someone here has been down that road before. Would it hold up in court if it ever got that far?

I'm not an attorney, but you probably did do something illegal by hacking into her work e-mail.

Perhaps you should stop it until you get a real answer.

Did you have casual access to her work e-mail in the past? In other words, did she view it at home on a computer also used by you? If so, this could be a case of implied consent. But get a real legal opinion.

Is this e-mail the only source of your intel for exposure use?

WAT

She does access her work e-mail using my computer. I work from home and she uses my company issued computer to get her e-mail. She has also given me the password to her work e-mail in the past.

i want to expose her this friday while we are at the mc, but i don't want to let her know that i have been going into her work e-mail. one, i don't want to get myself in trouble from a legal standpoint. two, if her and om are scheming up a plan to be together and she thinks she is taking our son, then i want to stay one step ahead of her.

Bingo! All that could make the case for implied consent. Again, I am not an attorney, so get real advice.

Also, just accessing the e-mail without using the information for personal gain or disruption of the business may be a piece of the answer here.

Agree, if you can make your case without revealing your source, all the better. Even if you can't use hard evidence, describing what you know will hit home with her. She'll know you know. Use OM's name. Use his location. You could know this from any number of sources. Heck, yahoo him or google him and see what pops up. He may be an axe murderer. One thing is for sure - YOU will become an "axe murderer" as soon as you spill the beans. Be prepared for this and be prepared to hear the most vile spew from your wife that you've ever heard from anyone. Don't let her draw you into an argument. Just defend that you know the truth, despite her denials. When she spews, a good stock reply is, "I understand your concern."

WAT

I am planning to expose this friday when we are at the mc. i am going to do everything i can not to tip my hand to how i know the info. i'm only going to give her enough to prove to her that i know. i'm sure she will fly off the handle and probably leave the session.

after that, how long do i give her to do the right thing and end the affair before i begin exposing it to her family and friends?

wat, thanks for sticking in this with me. i love my wife and i think we can get past this, but i also am willing to be unhappy if it means i can provide a good life for my son.

No longer than the next morning, IMHO.

There are two schools of thought on the timing and sequencing of exposure. I'll try to objectively present each.

1. The Full Monty (my term, after that quite funny movie) or "all at once." I've also referred to it as carpet bombing.

Some will argue this is the way to go, and it certainly has worked for many BSs. You just expose to everyone all at once as soon as possible, or without waiting for any positive effect. In the extreme, some have argued for (only half jokingly) taking out a billboard ad announcing the affair and affairees. I don't know if anyone has actually done this, but I wouldn't be surprised and I'd like to have a picture of it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

2. "Surgical" exposure, or a variation I refer to as "concentric circles."

Here, you start at the inner most circle - confronting the WS - and work out in expanding circles if needed. The "if needed" test is whether the WS comes out of their stupor. After the WS, expose to the OP's spouse, if any (arguably needed regardless of what happens after the WS confrontation). Then immediate family, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't take too many circles for this to mimic The Full Monty. Billboard optional.

The difference between the two general logics is how much colateral damage is done. Remember, exposure is to an affair what chemotherapy is to cancer. It does cause undesirable damage that also has to be healed - assuming the disease is more effectively harmed.

The trouble is that no one can predict which method - if either - will work best for any given case. I think it comes down to what the BS is comfortable doing. - or rather, least UNcomfortable doing.

Also, an argument can be made that despite which approach is used, it'll take some time for the effects to accumulate on the WS. So, waiting for positive effects in the concentric circle approach may be wasting time.

By my observation of the anecdotal information presented on this forum over the years, it seems that upon exposure, WSs either completely come clean fairly quickly, or they hunker down in fortress mentality. Again, unpredictable. Heck, many WSs end their affairs with NO exposure - even before the BS finds out - just because of the fear of it.

Hope this helps, and as always, listen to other opinions and ideas.

WAT

I realize that a lot of affairs are a case of the ws having their cake and eating it too. i think in my situation she doesn't want her cake (me). she appears to just want the om and is plotting for them to be together.

i know i've somewhat asked this before, but do i need to ignore this as just part of the fantasy. once i expose her does that just make it that much easier for her to move forward with her plans?

Please don't try to analyze it. She may not yet be at the cake eating stage. Sometimes that doesn't seem to happen until the sparkle is dimmed on the castle - after she learns that not everyone endorses her fantasy. Also, you're early in Plan A - your imporvements may not be visible to her yet. That's what REALY puts the icing on the cake, so to speak - when the WS realizes that the BS may not be so bad afterall.

Across the board, affairs are WAY more alike than they are different. Don't think for a second that her's is unique.

WAT

i just found something very significant. i found in her personal e-mail an email from back in march between the 2 of them. i didn't have any confirmation but i had a feeling this has been going on for quite some time.

Is that a good piece to reveal in the confrontation - since it's not from her work e-mail?

WAT

i don't know. i don't want her to know where i am getting my info from. i may need to still be able to access it after the exposure to keep me in the loop as to her plans with our son. it's a tough call. i want her to know that i do know and i want to be able to provide enough evidence to her family to prove to them what is going on....so it's a tough one.