Hi KJ -

I saw this in CheatedOn's thread:


I'd like to know more about this, if you'd be willing to share, or at least how your H went about it.

I'm working on rebuilding my trust in my wife, as she's working on gaining it back. Sometimes though I get fearful, and wind up making statements that she takes accusatorily when that wasn't my intent (look at my recent posts in my How Can the BS help the WS with NC thread).

I guess what I'm looking for are any suggestions you might be able to make based on your H's experience (unless he posts here as well?). It's a rather large issue for me right now, and I'm open to any and all suggestions. Thanks.

Bird,

Hope my response as a BS is welcome here?

A WS builds trust IMHO. It takes accountability, consistency, transperency, Love. It takes the WS giving you all passwords, full details of their movements every day. It takes them allowing you to check up on them. It takes time.

Trust isn't a right, it is earned. You should never have blind trust ever again either.

For me, I do trust my wife again now.

brokenbird,

My H is usually just a "lurker" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, so I'll do my best to speak to what I know as fact, not how he would perceive this issue.

I see how soon you are into recovery. I haven't followed your thread on NC, how is that going?Does your wife post on here? There are a couple of guys on the recovery board (mark620 and grxannm) who are very early into recovery and struggling with NC. She might find support there, just a thought. Geeze, I digress so easily, sorry, back to your question....

The trust factor entered our lives immediately upon d-day, as is the case for most couples. We had no idea what to do about it until we spoke to SH. He was the one who told my H about trust coming last. It made so much sense, the lightbulb-over-the-head thing.

After much soul searching, here's how I see it.... Most of us get married because we love the OP. We are looking forward to a life of committment, love, faithfulness, and TRUST. The WS goes and destroys all of these sacred attributes of marriage. They all need to be restored, but without committment, love and faithfulness, how do you have trust? Notice that committment, love and faithfulness are all verbs - something you DO. You show committment, you show love, you show faithfulness. Trust is an internal, personal emotion, acquired at different times in a marriage, and having the owner's unique perception attached to it. It is something we acquire, like the taste of broccoli! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> When it is destroyed, it is like trying to make a diamond out of coal. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I am so proud of my H for the work he has done in our recovery. Because he has put his trust in God rather than me, we have been able to focus on committment, love, and faithfulness. A BS needs constant affirmation that the WS is committed to the recovery of the M. SH had me write down a plan for NC, and a plan for protecting my weaknesses for my top five EN's (I could give you examples if you wish, but this post is already getting so long!!) I was instructed to go over these with my H at least once per week initially. My H was allowed to ask any questions he might have. It gave him the affirmation he needed that I was COMMITTED to our M, and being FAITHFUL to him. By meeting my H's EN's, I was showing my LOVE for him. It was CARING LOVE (vs. ROMANTIC LOVE), but that is all you need right now, the romantic love comes later. My H was also meeting my EN's, allowing me to feel safe in his presence, allowing me to WANT to show my committment, faithfulness, and love to him. The more of this back-and-forth effort we do, the greater my H's trust level becomes.

One other thing we do to maintain the trust we've developed, is subscribe to Dr. harley's policy of radical honesty. If you haven't read up on this, I'd encourage you to do so. My H knows where I am 100% of the time. I call him several times a day to touch base. We do EVERYTHING together. All of the errands, recreational activities, family activities, etc. This sounds overboard, suffocating to many couples, but it works for us. In fact, coming from little miss independent here, I love it. I realize now how much I need constant companionship and affection. I made myself believe I didn't need my H for anything, because he was never there for me anyways. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> He was always there, I just never told him what I needed.

I need to get ready for work. I hope you can find something beneficial in this terribly long, rambling post. If you'd like more details about the exercises SH assigned to us, let me know and I can get into that later.

All my best,

KJ

bigkahuna -


Responses from BS are always welcome. And any responses you, personally, are willing to give are extremely welcome, bigkahuna <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Very true. I do have the ability to check on just about everything she does; she's not particularly happy about that, and we're still working on total transparency, but I think the progress is generally upward, if slow.

The funny thing I've noticed about me is that, while at first I checked a lot, now I rarely check, and usually only if I have a suspicion (i.e., usually if she tells me there's been some sort of contact).

Between the affair and a couple of other things related tangentially to it, I've become a very untrusting person (some of the related events didn't actually involve trust with MP, but with other people that I thought understood confidentiality). I told her a few weeks back that I don't think I'll ever trust anyone again...and she (rightly, IMO) called me on that by asking me how I thought that made her feel. So I amended it to a more accurate "Never trust blindly again" statement.

I might even go so far as to say that MP shouldn't have blind trust in me either. I mean, isn't that one of the underpinnigs of Radical Honesty? Not suspicion or accusation, just the acknowledgement that we are all human, and if we're not held accountable we will do as we please.


That is encouraging to hear. To know people (even virtually) that have gone through this and rebuilt and recovered is always encouraging.

Hi KJ -

Thanks for the quick response <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


From everything I can tell, I think NC is going well. I'm not 100% confident it's fully in place yet, but actions on MP's part indicate that it may be.

MP hasn't posted on here since January. She got beat up pretty bad when she first posted, since the A was ongoing (she was actually with the OM when she made her first posts). I do not know if she will return or not, though she knows I post here frequently. She has had some personal correspondence with one of the FWW's from here, and I think she's getting some good support from a couple of close Christian women friends she has. I'd love for her to post her and start a thread with some of the FWW's, but so far she hasn't indicated a willigness or desire to do so.


Very well put...I had never looked at it in those terms before. It lets me take stock of our situation in a different way than previously. MP is showing committment, love and faithfulness...maybe not to the degree I want, but she is showing it (she stil wants to do MC tonight even though she doesn't feel well, and I offered to reschedule it - and our MC doesn't coddle either one of us).


I need to work on my trust in God, that's for sure. I keep trying to take over control again - with predictable results. It sounds like I should focus on the three verbs (the things that I can do) to lay the groundwork for rebuilding trust (it's already being rebuilt, but slowly).

I would be interested in seeing examples of the exercises SH gave you and your husband, if you're willing to share them. I would love to see a plan from MP on what she's willing to do in recovering our marriage, but I don't think she's quite there yet (as far as I can tell, she hasn't hit the remorse stage, but given the relative newness of NC, she may not even be through withdrawal yet).

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my question. I appreciate it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

brokenbird,

Ya, about that withdrawl thing.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

It' nuts man, craziest experience I'm certain I will EVER experience. You are going to have a very difficult time trusting your W until she is out of withdrawl and the fog. Hopefully you have read extensively on these two stages, because IMHO, BS's frequesntly underestimate the effects withdrawl and fog have on the recovery of their M. They can't understand why their spouse should be in the frame of mind that they're in. After all, it is THEY who have been betrayed, why isn't the WS doing everything in their power to recover? It's a phenomenon discovered by Dr. Harley. IMO, he's nothing short of a genious (geeze, I'm not even sure if that's how you spell genious!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />) I AM SO STOOOOPID!! Oops! Wrong thread!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I was all ready to give you some exercises to do, but I caught myself when reading your last post. You guys are so newly into NC, that you really need to focus on maintaining that for right now. Has she, or will she write a NC plan? She really does need to do this. Ask her to make a list of approx. 8-10 scenerios where she might have contact with OM. After each one, tell her to write how she intends to maintain NC if the OM should attempt to break it via e-mail, phone, etc. Ask her to review this with you at least once per week. It will give you a sense of affirmation that she is indeed sticking to NC, and it will pound it into her silly little fogged-up brain how crucial this is for recovery to occur.

You may have already posted something about IC and MC, so forgive me for asking again. Are you receiving either of these? If not, get your wife into IC first, then you, then MC for both. Okay, that sounded bossy, sorry, it's just a recommendation.

I cannot emphasize the need for NC enough. If she has contact, you are both back to square one. And every time after that, it gets worse. Do whatever it takes to prevent contact, even if it isn't popular with your wife. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I think I remember you wife's previous threads, ouch. Was she the one questioning if she was in recovery or not? if yes, she did take a beating. All FBS's will, at some point in time, take a 2x4 to the melon from a BS, guaranteed. But there are so many people here, BS's and FWS's, that will be supportive to her if she lets them. She may not always like what she hears, but like your recovery, even the bad expereinces make a stronger couple. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Continue with all the good work!!

KJ

Bird,

Of course you have to be sober in your judgements of yourself. I know a lot of BS's think they could nevr be a WS - me included, but it is important to understand, IMHO, that if everything aligned perfectly, you could fall into temptation as could I. That enables me to protect myself and my marriage from myself. A wise Pastor I have once said he prays every day that God keeps him out of situations he can't control. Sounds good to me.

I find myself occasionally checking up on my wife these days - it isn't a concerted campaigne any more - more incidental. But just doing life I always know where she is and the times she used to rendevouz with OM she we now go together or she goes with the kids.

We are very lucky I think. When she came home, the OM made contact a few times the first week but he knew I knew and stopped contacting. My wife has never ever broken NC and if she even sees OM's car she tells me straight away.

Bird, even MP knows at this point she can't be trusted. She may be pushing against it, but she knows

KJ, your posts in this thread have been very helpful to me. I believe we have NC but there was never a NC letter or anything like that. However my wife seems to be very slowly getting less "foggy". I have wondered why she isn't "chasing" me and why she doesn't seem to be in "romantic love" with me.

To hear you say this this is normal in early recovery helps a lot. I also thought I should start trusing her now but now that I read your post I can see that I shouldn't. I'll have to ask the counsellor about that. We're supposed to be making a plan for rebuilding trust next(actually she is supposed to).

thanks!

normalguy,

I love your thread name, makes me think of the saying, "everyone is normal, until you get to know them...." Love it!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I've seen your name on different threads, but for some reason haven't lurked. Can you tell me more about your sitch? How long into recovery are you? How long since NC has been established?

That's cute, your remark about your wife chasing you. He11, I still don't do that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> But I do initiate SF!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> And let me tell ya, my H is thinkin' that's an o-k thing!!

IMO, trust is by far the most challenging factor to re-establish in a M. I believe BS's and FWS's get ahead of themselves when they don't "feel" two things - trust and romantic love. Wanna know a secret?! As great as I believe my H and I are doing in recovery, I still do not feel "romantic love" toward him very often. As SH pointed out to me, this will come in time. On the other hand, I don't believe you need to feel romantic love in order to meet your spouse's EN's, whether you're the BS or the FWS. I believe you need caring love, and who would turn their backs on that?! I have my own analogy of love, I call it "married love". I believe it is a combination of romantic and caring love, nurtured over time, under the holy committment of matrimony. That's just my personal thoughts, so don't go tellin' the world!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

A plan for rebuilding trust is not the same as regaining her trust, so I think your MC is heading you in the right direction. I'd be interested to know what he/she says about this.

Thanks for your post guy. Oh, one more thing, even if it seems trivial and useless, I'd encourage you and your wife to write an NC letter. It's difficult to explain why I feel this way, but in its own ceremonious way, it helped us quite a bit.

All my best, KJ

My sitch is in the 'Recovery, but not sure' thread. I don't want to hijack this one.

I've been trying to understand this from her point of view and it is very difficult so your posts help me understand. I was really scared the other day when I realized that she's not feeling that strongly for me but I can see her making efforts. I can tell she "cares" for me too.