I am really just feeling lost at the moment.

in a 12 year marriage, with the woman i thought was my soulmate, love of my life all that B.S.
2 kids (3 and 6).

Found out 8 months ago she was trying to hook up with her ex boyfriend behind my back for 6 months. If i am to beleive her (i don't) they never had an affair. She lied to me for 2 months straight all the while still trying to see him. I was basically crushed, i have lost all faith in marriage, family and love. My heart is essentially broken and i am so tired of raging and crying and all this stuff that goes with it.

Sooo i still tried to give it a go at the marriage for the sake of my kids, i have seen what divorced families do to the kids, its just not right to make them suffer.

So about 2 months ago i caught her telling some guy in an email that she had an open marriage etc and flirting. I got pissed we argued and i sucked it up again and marched onwards. 1 month later i caught her abjectly lying to me and surreptitiously sending pics of herself to this guy.
Cyclke through the arguing and upset once again and there i am sucking it up again.

last straw is what just happened yesterday, she had a family emergecny out of state, in the same place this guy lives. caught her giving him her number and telling him to call her.

At this point i don't know what to do anymore, screw forgiveness, love marriage and all that B.S.
I can't do divorce to my kids though, its not fair to them, but i can't live a lie. I want what i thought i had the last 12 years back again, its obviously not here so i need to go out again and find it, i am so tired of being unhappy.
I thought i was a pretty good husband and father, i have bent over backwards only to catch a kick in the face.


oh wait i forgot the best part, i went through all this crap 15 years ago in my first marrioage and only hooked up with this wife because we shared the same committment to family values and marriage. She is religious and traditional , hahaha.

I am all for trying to save a marriage for the sake of the kids but maintaining a sham marriage just so the kids can have a "family" will, IMO, do them more long term damage than a divorce. Kids are bulletproof. The kids will heal and get well. They will be permanently damaged by an open marriage. Are those the values you want them to accept as virtuous?

P,

Kids are NOT "BULLET PROOF!" They will get over it, but will be scarred for life. I agree open marriage being worst damage, but D will cause almost as much.

V,

Please look at the just found out section and check out a post by Longhorn, his post has a very helpful guide. Read all you can here, get SAA and HNHN, talk to Steve or Jennifer, around $185.00 per session (well worth the money).

Good luck, sorry you have to be here.

A smart man said that the best thing a Dad can do for his children is love their mother. I disagree. I think the best thing a dad can do for his kids is respect himself.

"I want what i thought i had the last 12 years back again, its obviously not here so i need to go out again and find it, i am so tired of being unhappy.
I thought i was a pretty good husband and father, i have bent over backwards only to catch a kick in the face."- me too!~ I think that we all feel miserable about losing our" perfect marriage" This time of not knowing what is going on with my spouse was the hardest of all.

I too understand about divorce, but my parents stayed together for the children.- HORRIBLE. What I needed to see growing up was a happy mother and father who could show me what a real marriage looked like. If you are not willing to make your marriage look like this then divorce can be better.

Seeing as you said your last marriage ended this way, I am wondering what habits you may have brought from your previous marriage.

I know this is hard, but the reason that you spouse has began to look elsewhere is that some Emotional Need of hers isn't being met (REad SAA by HArley-great book!- I have read it a few times). It is not that she is this awful person with low morals, but she is hurting for feeling that her marriage is not the way that she wants it (She felt the way you feel now about your marriage and up until this point was unable to tell you). I AM NOT JUSTIFYING WHAT SHE HAS DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BELIEVE ME THE PAIN OF THE WHOLE SITUATION IS HORRIBLE!!!!!!!

The way that I think about it in my mind is I think that my H has a problem kinda like cancer and this problem has caused us a lot of pain. I wouldn't leave him because of the problem because I love him. I said that I would be here in sickness and in health. While he has having his A he definately was in sickness. I promised I would love my H no matter what. Now is the real test of my love for him. Seeing as we are all human, we can take only so much. Some of us can take more than others. YOu need to look inside and decide what you can take. Set some limits for your relationship and begin PLAN A or move on.

I do hope that you look at your relationship because the problems that you have now probaly were there at your last marriage. These porblems will only follow you to the next marriage.

I know I have been very blatant in my response, but I hope this brings you some things to think about. No matter which road D or M you choose, the road will be long and hard. At the end do you want your wife back? It sounds like you do, "I want what i thought i had the last 12 years back again."

If so explain your problem to your spouse and tell her that you need to know whether she is commited to the marriage. If she is, and is willing, set limits like NO contact to the Other Men, begin reading SAA togehter and good luck. '

If she is not and you want her back, start plan A.

What ever you do, order SAA it really helps. Good luck

Also try to get her to complete the emotional needs questionairre and the LOve busters questionairre.

Vercing,

So sorry you have to be here, but welcome!

First let me say I totally agree with you about the children going through a divorce. I work at a courthouse and hear and see these cases all the time. I remember always thinking, "Thank God me and my children will never have to go through this b/c my H would NEVER cheat on me and I would NEVER cheat on him." But here I am, my H did cheat on me. Thankfully (I guess) my H has realized he made a huge mistake and is willing to work on our M, so divorce is on the back burner for now.

But the hoops these families have to go through are outrageous, all of the therapy and evaluations these innocent young children have to endure, god, I could go on and on <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />!

OK, back to my point, I agree with you about not wanting to put the children through that he11! But as Dr. Phil says, "Would you rather come from a broken home or live in one?" What your children are going through now is he11, no doubt about it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />!

You are doing more damage to them by exposing them to this broken home. Now, if your wife was willing to work on this marriage with you, my advice would be different. But your children deserve a happy home, whether they have to go through a divorce to get there or your wife realizing what she is doing to you and your family and seek help.

I don't believe the second statement is happening. You can't change someone that doesn't want to be changed. Definitely go to counseling for yourself and good luck to you and your family! You have a tough decision to make!

--CO

I'm sorry CO but i refuse to accept any responibility for this at all, i have bent over backwards. both before the event and after.

The problem in my first marriage was that i was married to a stupid ******, her kicking me out to continue her ****** without interference was the best thing that ever happened to me. I only wish my present wife had the guts or character to do likewise, instead she simply lies and denies and swears she loves me but continues this behaviour.

I have been married most of my life and some of the stupid crap i have seen in here about relationships is just unbeleivable. Being married is not about having your emotional needs met, that is a given once you marry, if you get irritated at the other person you are supposed to work on things not start dismantling the marriage.

My problem is i married american women who only think of their own selfish little selves. I am tried of being last on the list and my children be too far down the list of important considerations. i don;'t need anymopre selfish people in my life. hey i guess my needs are not being met <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am tried of talking, , crying, greiving, raging, working ****** out, nothing works out, its all wasted energy and all i get in the end is a kick in the teeth and a bill for the destruction of my family unit. Then i get served up a steaming bowl of ****** soupo as the selfish offender and marrigage wrecker gets support from the ridiculous american therapy culture to share the blame with me.


i demand the respect and treatment i deserve, my children deserve a mother who puts the family first and I deserve not to have my life torn to shreds every few months by someone who is only thinking of their own selfish needs.
What hope do i have of stopping any of this if 12 years, the best marriage anyone had , 2 beautiful children, her fundementalist religious views and her families traditional take on this was not enough to save my marriage before. Its hopeless and pointless, she will not stop. Which is pretty much what i said when i first found out because there are severla facts about this sort of thing that are not especially discussed on here.

When your lover cheats on you they no longer love you , PERIOD. Doing it repeatedly and torturing the person is abuse and shows more about how they feel about you than all the valentines day cards in the world.

Its time for me to move on i think. Its a shame my children have to pay for this, AGAIN. Once again i will be watching my family get torn to pieces. The child i had from my previous marriage is a mess.

"If so explain your problem to your spouse and tell her that you need to know whether she is commited to the marriage. If she is, and is willing, set limits like NO contact to the Other Men, begin reading SAA togehter and good luck. '"

yeah sure she is all willing to work on our marriage, but honestly if i have to spell out "do not ****** other men" as a condition of our marriage what exactly am i working on saving? . She would never put up with this from me.
In fact if i can beleive her she never cheated on any of the stupid boyfriends she had before me, so i get the extra special treatement for all my effort towards our family, i am just a piece of ****** to her who pays the bills. If i had the guts i would kick her [censored] to the curb out of my house, and expose her lies to her family. But i just can't be vidictive about this, i still love her as my soulmate. But i will not be spit on or have my children exposed to this.

Piojitos you said:[color:"blue"] Kids are bulletproof. The kids will heal and get well. They will be permanently damaged by an open marriage. [/color]

What a load of rhino dung.

You are right when you say that supporting infidelity should not be instilled in their minds but neither should values of abandonment or feelings about guilt they will have about themselves when the judge raps the gavel.

There is no good situation in adultery for children; only losing because winning and draw are not viable.

Plank.

Plank,

For me, if my only two options are raising my children in a deviant family environment or divorce, I go for divorce hands down. Both are bad for the children but rasing them to live with adultery is abhorrent. At least divorce will allow healing.

I prefer to try to save the marriage - otherwise I would be divorced myself. The only thing that keeps me in this battle is my kids. So yes kids will heal. Should they have to? No. But there are not always happy endings.

So if you would prefer to raise your kids in adultery in an attempt to avoid divorce, your parental values and mine are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I didn't see how the original post left a third option. The poster has thrown up his hands, given in to the adultery but wants to avoid divorce. That is unhealthy for everybody.

So go raise that up your flag pole.

I think you mean CFC. I never said anything remotely close to this. I actually am on your side, vercing. You DID NOT have any responsibility in this. Good for you for seeing it. I am in the same situation as you as far as bending over backwards for my FWH. I would be here all day explaining everything I ever did for him and all the EN's that weren't being met by him but did I go and cheat, NO!! The thought NEVER crossed my mind!!!



Totally agree with you. I believe the main thing in a M is communication, not EN's being met.



I'm not sure if this is a bash towards American women or just selfish people in general. I am American and I am vert selfLESS. I actually got burnt b/c of my selflessness. I always put everyone else before me. My H just sucked it all in and then passed it on to a wh*re instead of back to me. I never got ANYTHING good in return for what I did for him.

I, too, cannot stand selfish people. That is my H!




You're right, you do demand the respect and treatment you deserve and your children do too!

Good luck on your journey!

--CO

Probably one of the best ways of getting through to her family values and fundamentalist religious beliefs is to expose her behavior to the light of day. It's not vindictive to expose to family, friends, pastors, or anyone else who can help you put pressure on her and stop the affairs. You say you still love her as your soulmate. It hasn't worked so far to keep her secrets for her and help her cover up her affairs -- so why not try calling in some backup?

Only if you still want to try to save anything, though. You seem fairly angry, which is very understandable, and you certainly would be justified in "kicking her to the curb". I wouldn't suggest exposing to family if you're done and don't want to try anymore -- THAT would be vindictive.

Already did that when i first caught her and her family came together behind me and soundly cursed her for doing so.
Her sister who is a lcose freind watch me make a complete [censored] of myself in public all drunk about this and watched me try to put myself into hospital over this. Her father stood in my house a wept tears over this and told me how i did not deserve this.

Like i said we have exhausted every motivational tool we could, she has sat ana made lists with her priest over how to recitify the harm to our marriage and family.

Instead of effort i get her trying to hook up with another man behind my back, sending him pics of herself and talking shuit about our horrible family life. Basically the same crap she did before. Lie and say we have an open relationsahip, then say how horrible life is, then try to screw them.

I need a divorce, i am pretty sure this is over. I knew it the second i first found out that it was over, i have tried to hang on but its just not worth it anymore. I feel ashamed for how i will be letting down her family like this and my children.

vercin,

Hi, Im so sorry for your family, this is so difficult, and I think if you decided to get divorced youre family is going to pass for more pain,, but at the end of all this maybe your kids are going to be in a situation where they are going to learn that in this life we need to be responsable of our actions.... and even nobody is perfect and everybody deserves a second chance, there are limits that we need to follow in a society, well according to our values...
I was a BS and now I fighting to stop my Husband pain , and trying to make my marriage alive and in recover.. Im not sure if this could be but Im put my soul in this...
IMO you should look for help, better professional help or at least a close friend for talk...
As a BS Im the only responsable for my behaviour I know but my H and I didnt built a marriage on proof to any affair... We were buzy in another things instead of do love deposits in our bank love (another concept that I learned here)
Be strong, ask God, for quiet and to do the best for your kids and you.

Best wishes!!

tear,

I think you are WS - not BS. You are the one who had the affair (wayward spouse) just in case the poster is not familiar with your situation.

Ohhhh yes you're right piojito, I was the unfaithful spouse...

OK..
here's my shot at this at MARRIAGE BUILDERS...

VERCING

unfortunate welcome to this place....

IF you choose to take the path offered by this site...
you need to read read and read....
from the author about how he has developed a plan to transverse these very emotionally trecherous waters...

this place can and does save marriages...
BUT
more importantly it saves people..
one by one....

and it offers a map....
to anchor on to and move through this till no matter the outcome..
YOU
come through knowing you did your best and tried your hardest...

first you start with Plan A..
in plan A you commit to a SELECT PERIOD of time in which you suck up the emotional chaos....and attempt to present to your spouse
a
confident
noble
charming
individual...

that KEEPS the lines of communication open..

in some ways you present the EXACT OPPPOSITE of what she expects...
and it throws the WS off..
and if gets their attention..

when they expect anger..
you hand them control
when they expect name calling
you refrain...

you infact remove yourself from any type of line of fire that can be used against...

the old
blah blah blah stuff..
like

you are too controlling
you can't tell me who my friends can and can't be...
you don't own me..
wah wah wah...
if you prepare and rehearse in your head hearing this garbage you can emotionally detach your response to such kaa-kaa

your posts are full of anger and gross broad statements..if you truly believe then marriagebuilders can not help you...

and it is a waste of time....

your wife is following the WS spouse script letter by letter so soon after being found out....

you can cut bait and run..
no one can tell you differently...
but you might consider opening your heart and mind up...to seeing what can be salvaged...
before you scoot...

your choice...
ARK

Vercing...

Rage away, my friend. I wish I would have had the strength and fearlessness to rage like you are when I was in my darkest days. Getting the anger out is good... and you deserve to be angry.

Now I'll let you in on a couple of thoughts...

1) Time is on your side. Do not make any decisions when you are filled with rage. You will definitely regret it.

2) As much as this is something your W has done... you need to make this about you. It is during hardships that we grow. Whether you divorce or stay married, you will never have a better time to really look inward and recognize fears, weaknesses, strengths, and seek a transformation. You cannot change your W... but she may change as a result of your own transformation.

3) You won't realize this now... it took me months to realize it... but your W has hurt herself as much or more than she has hurt you. It's ok if you don't agree with me on this point... most BS won't. But that is the message I get from reading from all the FWS on this thread.

4) For me, separation and divorce was failure and weakness. This is not the case for all... it can be strength for some, especially if you are leaving an abusive situation. I recognized that I had a lot more growing to do... to learn what unconditional love and patience really are. To learn confidence and strength and communication. I realized my W needed a rock or lighthouse (whatever metaphor works for you) to be a safe place for her to cling to while she figures it out. Maybe in the future, divorce will change to being a sign of strength for me... but I know it is not time.

5) Eventually... and hopefully soon... the rage needs to change to more productive actions and feelings. You do need to let the rage out... but if you hold onto it, it will consume you and you will feed on it. Your dreams, beliefs and life will go up in a ball of fire in that rage.

Think long and hard before you make any decisions. This is for your children, for your Wife... but mostly it is for you to stay or leave in strength and with integrity... integrity to your own beliefs, vows, lessons, fears and life.

Patience.

Shaden

Wher do i read this WS script? can you be more specific please?
I am unfamiliar with the abbreviations on this site, is there some sort of legend where i can look these abbreviations up?





Yeah i fully unjderstand that divorce is failure, but frankly i have very little choice here. I have been dealing with this non-stop for 8 months now, not once can i honestly say has she taken any steps to curb her behaviour. i am doing all the stuffing of emotion and pain while she just does what she wants. This is unhealthy.

I have lost count of the number of chances i have given, i have to put my foot down.

I am simply going to up and leave, spend some time alone and away. Hopefully i can find the inner strength to make it a permananent away. Its definatly going to be the hardest thing i have ever done in my life. It breaks my heart to do this to my children but i cannot stay here and keep suffering any more. She is not the woman i married by a long shot anymore, the woman i married wouldn't have lied to me like this, she would have done anything to be with me and would never have destroyed our family like this.

If i stay i am going to hurt myself, i have to begin the true grieving process for our marriage and get it over with, move on and find some peace eventually. i am useles to my children the way i am so i have to move past this point in my life to be of any use to them as a father.

vercing...

please please please do not leave your children with a woman who is demonstrating such poor poor choices and showing such great disrespect to you and them...

please...I literally am begging you...

please search out Bobpures posts on how he stayed and maintained such great composure in the blatant face of his wifes affair.....
and most importantly stood strong in front of his children..

their rock when they needed it most...
setting strong firm boundaries about their involvement in their mothers chaos....

have her leave if you must...but YOU keep the children...


have you exposed her liasons to her parents....

have you exposed her emotional affairs with the OP...

have you read about plan A...

It is my opinion that it is MORE dangerous to the welfare of your children leaving with them so she can pursue OM in front of them...than for you to stay there and protect them from that....

this isn't over....
but it is possible for you to learn to communicate with her...even in the throes of her confusion and vileness that best serves the children and the marriage in the long run..

but you must be willing to do the work...

some people have said you have to earn your way out of a marriage....

ARK