Some of this reminds me about getting in shape.

MT and I always joke about how it was so much easier to get in shape when you had a coach screaming at you.

For the most part, the coach just wanted the best for the player. They would use any tactic to motivate the player to do their best. Though, in the end, either the player understood this or they didn't. If the player understood it, it really never mattered the tactic used. If they didn't understand, well, it also didn't matter what tactic the coach used. What really mattered is if the player wanted to succeed and if they believed the coach wanted the same thing. The rest was just details.

What I can say, and maybe this is ironic, but in my experience, the better the player, the more likely the coach bordered on sounding mean and cruel.

I think this is because most people, think waste of a person is a bad thing and waste of a person with tremoundous potential is a tragedy. When they see it happening they will do all they can to try and stop it.

Suzet - While some of the words are harsh and some of the words are soft, don't walk away. Each word is a statement from others (55 different people, by my count) who are saying you have tremendous potential.

[color:"red"] Turkeys do not POJA Thanksgiving.
[/color]

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

wow

leaving or staying

always a choice

unless one is a prisoner

or

unless one wishes to abdicate their personal power of choice to others ... in other words, revert to child like behavior

driving one off is not the same as making someone so uncomfortable they choose to leave on their own accord [color:"red"]... or IN their own ACCORD if they drive off in a Honda !!! <<< joke inserted later because it arrived in my brain behind schedule [/color]

discomfort when committing acts of infidelity is a good thing

Suzet*s discomfort indicates a functioning conscience underneath the rebellion

it's good Suzet* left (for awhile) ... she is feeling the [color:"red"]heat [/color] of her own internal demons

she needs to admit her infidelity to herself & others in order to heal ... she's in rebellion & on the run from her conscious

she'll catch up to herself someday , because she must

it might not be here on MB ... but it will happen <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pep

Is that americanized English humor?

LOL, good one!

Okay, I’ve decided to come back and talk it through. I feel I owe it to the people who have tried to help me. Maybe it’s not for my own best interest at this stage but it’s difficult to leave a place where I’ve spent so much time and have received so much support, encouragement and help from people who care…

First I want to share the following good advice Restarting posted to me on In Recovery:


Therefore I want to thank those beautiful souls who still believe in me and still consider me as their friend in spite of my humanness; weaknesses and errors...the souls who don’t reject me because of me and my H’s decision to not follow Harley’s principles 100%. Those beautiful souls know who they are…so I’m not going to mention any names (in case I leave anyone out). Just know I appreciate you from the bottom of my heart… It’s because of you (and you souls know who you are) that I have decided to come back here and not give up on these forums yet…

And those of you who believe I’m a terrible evil woman (“smug OW”) who serves Satan… Well, what can I say? Believe what you want… I know the truth about myself and God knows the truth about me…and I will not take such insults, attacks and hostility personally anymore... I deserve better than that. But I do want to say the following:

If I was an evil smug OW who serves Satan (as directly or indirectly suggested by some ), I would have not posted to a Marriage Builders website in the first place… Then I would have not felt guilt and shame over what I did… Then I would have not felt like a failure… Then I would have not confessed to my BH, confessed to this website and ended contact with the OM through an approved NC letter with my H… Some of you still view me as a WW after I have done all of the above...and there are some who said I will be a WW as long as I still work at the same company as OM… Well, this is just plain ridiculous (considering me and my H’s circumstances) but I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Just keep the following in mind:

The fact that me and my H deviate from the Harley principles and have come to a decision which – due to personal circumstances - is not 100% in line with those principals, give NO ONE the right to attack, insult and show so much hostility towards me and my H and to make ridiculous and disrespectful assumptions about me. And yes, my H was insulted a few times too.

And before I forget - I just want to mention this: Yes, we have a McDonald’s around town but unfortunately “affirmative action” is applicable there too… Unfortunately me and my H don’t have black or colored skins and won’t even be considered at places like McDonald’s too. And those of you who think I have a smart, comfortable, high-paying job… Well…not the case. And those who think my H don’t make enough effort to find another job…well…wrong again. At the moment my H is doing his own thing (selling and repairing computers & peripherals and doing network maintenance) in an attempt to get in extra money for us to survive. Some months are relatively good…and some months are bad…not a fixed income, but it does help.

Anyway, if most think I don’t have the right to post here anymore because me and my H can’t abide by all Harley's principles and follow it exactly, then yes…I will probably disappear permanently, but in the meantime I will hold on to these boards… Time will tell. My H has read this thread after my “Cruel World Post” and advised me to keep away from here…and to also close this chapter of my life…but it’s difficult to shut myself off from a place which was once my “life-line”…and I would like to continue to support and encourage others…

Regarding exposure to OMW: Many of the honest posts have come through to me and YES, it does bother me that OMW doesn’t know how she was victimized behind her back. YES, I know I was a victimizer of her M too and equally responsible. YES, I would like to know of my H’s emotional betrayal if I were in her shoes… The past 2 days since I’ve been away from these forums I have thought about it a lot – it was basically all I was thinking about - and I have discussed this with my H again. I’ve said to my H if we expose it needs to be him – that I will not stand in his way, but H still doesn’t want us to do it because of reasons I’ve pointed out in an earlier post on this thread (the post was addressed to Mrs Wonderings). I know some have laughed it off as justifications and rationalizations but those things are genuinely a concern for me and my H…

Yesterday I’ve confided in a close friend of mine and my previous counselor about this issue…and they have advised me to find out the postal address of OMW and send an anonymous letter to her in stead. I’ve asked my H about this and he doesn’t want me to do it…said OM will know who’ve send the letter and will make trouble and contact me all over again…said I need to leave this alone now and move forward with him…that I’ve done my part and need to take my focus away from all this… But I find it difficult.

After all that happened recently (and especially OM’s response on my NC letter) I’m convinced OM is a predator and was a ‘player’ all along…even during the times he instigated a friendship and have won my trust through his “concern” and “friendship”… I didn’t want to believe it all these years but I do see it now. And it’s difficult to digest. But I know me and my H (as suggested by TooSoon) will be fine and I know I will be able to stay strong. Yes, I can see now I was probably in a fog this whole 3 years…deep down I didn’t really want to believe and accept I was in a *real* affair and an adulterer…and because of this I probably believed I was “above” temptation… But Satan knew by “weakest” spot all along…and I was to weak to resist the temptation (referring to my responses on OM's e-mails). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> But...I feel I’m better equipped this time…I know I am…

I'm sorry some feel insulted by my previous posts...it wasn't the intention...I was upset and furstrated.

I'm leaving now but will be back tomorrow.

Thanks to those who have offered their prayers…
Suzet

PS: My H is busy preparing a response to this forum. It's almost finished, so please be on the lookout for it (probably in a day or two). It will be send under my screenname.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I can't believe you said this:

[color:"purple"]"Unfortunately me and my H don’t have black or colored skins and won’t even be considered at places like McDonald’s too. " [/color]

whoa!

Yes, Pep - I had to say that to make clear what's going on in this country and why H is still struggling with unemployment and why it will be difficult for us to find other jobs... Me and my H don't belong to the "affirmativie action" group in this country (which are black and colored people) and that's the reason why we will be last on the list to be considered for job applicants. And this apply to low AND high paying jobs. Sad but true... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm in my current job for 11 years now... When I first took this job "affirmative action" was not yet in place...

Oh that's right

I forgot

South Africa

right?

the souls who don’t reject me because of me and my H’s decision to not follow Harley’s principles 100%

How has that worked out for you so far Suzet ?

Answer.

How is it going to be different THIS time Suzet ?

How ?

Hope ? HOPE IS NOT A PLAN !

Prayer ? Didn't protect you THIS time did it ? Maybe God wants you to row away from the rocks a little here.

Haley stuff works. Your own situation is EXEMPLARY in supporting why extraordinary NC is CRITICAL IRREPLACEABLE inrecovery yet you STILL deny this ???

Unbelievable. I haven't rejected you or any other such emotive and personalised thing, its just as plain as the nose on my own face that you HOPING and not exposing is the WORST thing you can do for your marriage. I have no idea how you and your H can think this is workable bearing in mind what just happened to you.

I firmly believe you KNOW exposing to OMW is the best thing to do but you fear the shame of the consequences of her knowing your part in the threat to her marriage. Cowardice Suzet. Just like you never calling your EA and EA these years when deep down you knew it was. While you called it a 'friendship' you didn't have to take extraordinary actions to recover from it.

Now you do if you're serious about saving your marriage.

And your H ? I don't know how much MB he knows but I trust you have told him POINT BLANK that exposure is vital and NC is vital to recovery , right ?

He knows that your marriage is at risk if you do not expose and take extraordinary measures re: NC

Your proposed course of action is not rendered sensible because you got yor H to agree to it. It is foolish IMO.

But hey, its your life.

Best of luck trying to suppress them feelings when you bump into OM. And sleeping well knowing OMW is still in blissful ignorance of the risk to her marriage.

My H has read this thread after my “Cruel World Post”

Odd place to start...so, he hasn't read the part where you posted the love emails that you and OM exchanged.

Did you show him those when you confessed to him? I really think he needs to see the "degree" of what has transpired and he might want to make changes to what he has agreed to.

Not trying to stir the pot here...just wanting to be upfront with MY opinion.

committed

Suzet...

Thank you!

I don't think we've talked on here before, and this is my first post on this very interesting, controversial thread... and I just want to say "Thank You".

Why???

For your human frailties... we all have them.

Why???

For coming back and having hope...

Why???

Because your situation has finally cleared up some doubts and questions in my own sich.

You see... I was 2/4'd a little over not wanting to tell OMW... it took me months to do it. I did. I've seen their pain since. It's been difficult and sometimes I wondered if I did the right thing. Now I know. It was right.

In a recent historical movie I watched, a dying father said to his son as he knighted him... "An honorable knight will always tell the truth... EVEN if it leads to his own death." Doing what is right is not always easy... it brings more pain and suffering sometimes... but it doesn't change what is right.

I also learned...

We have occassionally continued to attend the church we grew up in... OM and his family still go there. We have every right to be there and we will lose a lot by leaving. We tried to make it work. It doesn't work. Your sich showed me that it is dangerous and unhealthy for us to continue at that church. We will be leaving and finding somewhere else. Right now, there is no contact between them... but continuing on is flirting with disaster. Maybe Satan will get his hands in there again a year from now... or two. Maybe it will take 5 or 10. But as long as we are there, he has his forked tail holding the door open.

In reading through most of this thread, I must apologize to say that I found a lot of it amusing. I apologize because I know this is very painful for you. What is amusing is the sideline bickering and bantering going on... everyone trying to be the one who can help... "my way is better".

Everyone trying to help have their human frailties as well. If there were a perfect way to say what needs to be said to get the message across, then there wouldn't be need for these forums. Cut through all the extra words, the sarcasm, the justifications, the arguments, the pleasantries... cut through it all and just see the message...

You are important. What happens to you means a lot to the people on this board. They care about YOU. Doing what is right helps the OPS... but it is FOR YOU.

Just like we cannot change our WS... nobody here can tell you what to do or change your mind. But we do care about you.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.

Reading this thread is a lot like standing at the rails on a ship while a person has fallen overboard and struggles in the water, meanwhile the other passengers argue over what is the best way to save the person.

We are patient... think about the message being sent. Pray about it. Search for what is right. In the end there is Faith, Hope and Love. Grab hold of the rope...

Shaden

Suzet... glad you are back.

****EDIT***

The In recovery forum can be so much more constructive... the folks over there are a godsend.

GBH, do you realize that this snotty little post demonstrates exactly everything you claim to abhor? Your post was judgmental and snotty by vilifying members - by name - who don't live up to your standards. It demonstrates a lack of maturity by your inability to outgrow your high school girl resentments about being left out. You sound like an embittered, snotty high school girl...really.

Perhaps you should practice what you preach, lest you end up looking silly and immature?

I know full well that they can speak for themselves..that's what I've learned from them..that's just one of the qualites that I admire about them...

But I just have to say...

PEP and MEL among others..were there for me in some of the DARKEST HOURS of my life..I give them much of the credit for my personal growth and my marital recovery...

I actually pity those who don't receive their assistance..

Those whom they choose to offer help here are truly BLESSED by their willingness to share their care, time, knowledge and wisdom..

SO COUNT ME IN THE CLIQUE...I'M IN WITH THE INCROWD...

Lurker here... Just wanted to clear up some popular misunderstandings about affirmative action programs. AA programs and policies have been around for about 30 years now, and they are not only designed to address racial inequities in education and work places but they are also designed to address *gender* inequities as well. So actually, you *do* belong in a protected class that can benefit for an affirmative action policy.

A lot of employers do not have formal AA policies. Rather they tend to have non-discrimination policies for purposes of protection against discrimination lawsuits. In fact, over the last decade or so, the US Supreme Court has ruled that AA programs/policies that establish minority quotas in either public or private sector employment or education settings are unconstitutional and illegal. If you current place of employment in engaging in a quota system, you may want to advise your upper management to have their attorneys re-examine their hiring policy. It could get them in legal trouble....

What *is* legally permissable is an employer or college selecting a qualified worker or student from a legally protected class where their aim is to promote a diverse workforce or student body. Those protected classes are persons who have traditionally been discriminated against in our society, such as racial minorities, women, non-Christians, and persons with disabilities. Keep in mind, there are also other intangible factors that may not be entirely relevant to the job description which may come into play when an employer is hiring, such as the selected applicant having a family to support versus a single applicant. Affirmative action is far from the only reason some people are hired over others...

Suzet* does not reside in the US

Suzet:

This speaks loads about you.



Hopefully, you will not be attempting work for an African-American employer.

Referring to African-Americans as being "colored" is not acceptable in today's society...went out in the 60s..

Sorry for the threadjack.

You don't have to worry about me posting to you anymore.

Suzet is in South Africa. I don't think anyone could understand the race relations issues there unless they lived there. So let's take that off the table.

Right. And your maturity level was clearly demonstrated by your immediate reporting my relatively mild post to the mods.

I used no foul language whatsoever. All I did was try to give Suzet some encouragement and advise her to let the foul comments from those posters roll off her back. Because they ARE acting incredibly intolerant simply because she and her husband are dealing with their sitch in a way that they disapprove of.

I find it interesting that certain people here (I will leave names out this time) can vilify someone to no end, call them names, DJ left and right, even make false accusations, and get away with it. I personally have been the victim of numerous personal attacks and false accusations here and the mods let them stay. Yet when I express my personal opinion and try to give Suzet an analogy to work with (short version: pay them no mind, they are acting like 16-year-olds that won't tolerate someone who looks/talks/dresses different), I get edited out.

We're supposed to be helping each other out here. Insdtead of vilifying Suzet, why can't you try to help her?

BTW, I HAVE gotten over the high school BS. Got over it a long time ago. That's why I can laugh about it now because it's all so silly. Yet when I see it here, and point it out, I get edited. I don't know whether to laugh or cry or just be totally <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Of course its MB's site, they can edit out whoever they please. I am but a guest here, and apparently an unwelcome one.

100% agree

Pep