Good for you! to know where you stand.

One more Q to ask. I think I read somewhere that you said that you forgive her. DO you know that includes forgetting?

Have you read this?: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

where do you stand?

just Q for thought!

Wish you well!

I tell you what, I don't wanna eat crap sandwiches every year. I wonder why she does that, informs you of some new shat prior to your anniversary. In lieu of not wanting to eat crap sandwiches, yeeuuchhh, I wonder if I should delve further into the things that occurred during my FWH's A; get a more clear timeline of events, so I can set free the thought of something evil popping up out of nowhereland. I only know what he volunteered during our separation, and have been led to believe that there was no PA until AFTER he moved out. UHG, this is tough. Some things I don't feel the need to know, yknow, the details, but a clear timeline would help. I thought I had one, but you never know if what you were told during the A was really true. I just haven't gotten the guts up to confront MYSELF with this one.

"DO you know that includes forgetting?"

No I do not know that includes forgetting. Unless Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith show up at my door with some ray bans and that light stick I will never forget. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I read they need to pay the person back make just compensation etc. Not forgetting.

I am forgiving because it does me no good not to. Not because she has really worked toward me forgiving her.

I am being honest with myself and her. I have told her I might be done with this. Too much water under the bridge. I am not a 100% sure yet so I will wait.

Too bad for her I cannot pull her close while I decide because when I do I am accused of lying that I love her. I am not going to show her how much I love her only to have it thrown in my face later.

Temp,

Yes you may want to know the timeline and he may be afraid to tell you.

I know one thing my wife not telling me the truth has put us where we are today.

I think I was fed these crap sandwiches because she was trying to protect herself and her image and her justifications.

If it is eating you up you should find out because you won't get past it until you know the truth.

Be wary though everyone says the images you have are usually worse then the truth. The truth in my case was actually worse then the images I had.

Never actually wanted to believe my FWW could do that on our anniversary. Guess I was wrong.

hurting,
I'm not really looking for details, only events, such as, when did you first realize you were having an EA? Did you have sex prior to leaving, or was that a lie to appease me, if so, when did the PA start, truly; how long did PA last, truthfully; when was the last intimate contact? I already have a clear idea of the last time they spoke. Those sorts of things. A timeline. I would be lying if I said that I wasn't curious over the details, but they will only hurt me, so I have made a conscious effort to avoid discussing this. I really am looking for prior lies and bringing out the truth ONLY. IF the timeline that I have been prescribed doesn't change upon further scrutiny, then he may have been honest with me prior to this stage of recovery that I (I'm the only real committed party right now) am in. Then I can begin to forget and forgive (notice the order here). Like you say in your signature line 'An honest person does not need a good memory'. Just testing that memory... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Temp,

Exactly. I believe radical honesty is different for every person.

I think the details that are important to one BS are different then the details important to another BS.

I wanted to know about all contatact and all time spent with OM because my FWW had the A on a trip that was specifically dedicated to seeing friends and family. She wanted to move back to NY for 3-4 years before the A because of her friends and family.

The more time she spent with OM the less time she spent with the people that were the whole reason for the grief I endured about moving back.

Now if she went back and spent a majority of time with OM then how could she really say those people were so important to her? So she was not honest. I knew she wasn't honest.

That is why it was important to me in a nutshell.

You just want to know the basic details of what happened so you can move on. You diserve that.

I always refer to the veggie tales tape on this one. It is about a "Fib from outer space" forget the asparagus' name but the gist is this. He breaks something of his fathers and the "fib" talks him into lying about it. The Fib actually keeps growing because the asparagus has to keep lying to cover up other lies. The fib gets so big it starts crushing the whole veggie town. Finally the asparagus starts telling the truth and the fib shrinks up and can't hurt anyone anymore. Good moral to that one.

The truth will set you free.

You know my FWW just told me everything that happened on her trip about a month ago. I look at her in a completely different way now because she said she forgave herself and didn't think it was important. I wonder how someone can know her lies are hurting our relationship and be ok with that. I would think the lies would be eating you up inside until finally one day you admitted to them. I assumed this to be true and thats why I wanted radical honest. I didn't want to find out when the guilt had finally gotten to her enough to tell the truth. I guess I assumed wrong because that is what she told me.

Hurting,

"I look at her in a completely different way now because she said she forgave herself and didn't think it was important."

Oh, I beg to differ. It is not she that has to forgive the sin, but you. Your WW has to allow for you to make the decision about forgiveness. I've done some pretty low things in my life, but never looked to myself to forgive me, but others for forgiveness. It's easier to deal with the guilt, if you declare that because you forgave yourself, there should be no guilt. Sounds like a bad case of the 'shoulds'. I 'should' forgive you, well, bullshITE, prove to me you are worthy! I can see where your reticence to recommence recovery is coming from. I'm so sorry that you have come to this place, as I feel mournful that I am here, too. I'm finally starting to really take care of me, and am happy for that, but feel almost like I'm anchored down by this, and wish to be buoyant again...

Temp

"but never looked to myself to forgive me, but others for forgiveness. It's easier to deal with the guilt, if you declare that because you forgave yourself, there should be no guilt"

I agree and when she said that it made me think differently about her as a person.

She did what was best for her instead of what is best for us or our M.

I cannot forgive something I do not know about.

It makes perfect sense why you still dont want to celebrate your anniversary--you are only really three months past D-day. How painful it must be to keep learning she is still withholding lies.

Building your trust again is going to be a lot of work for her considering the on-going lies.

Why did she tell you more now? Do you think everything is out now?

Ahuman,

I think she told me now because I wore her down. Again I knew she was lying to me about most of what she said.

I always told her I wanted honesty and I wouldn't move forward without it. I guess she thought differently.

Now the last lies were actually the worse and that is what is so bothersome to me.

Why not be honest and deal with the consequences.

She seems to have no intention of working on rebuilding my trust.

In her eyes she doesn't see it as a trust issue because she didn't think it was important. (the details she forgot to tell me) She said she wasn't lying to me about everything everyday. She has been honest about everything else in our day to day lives. I think sometimes our day to day was lies because she kept up with her dishonesty.

I am so sorry to hear all of this.

How did you find out about the A in the first place?

Has she read the Harley books?

How did I find out about the A.

Well when FWW got back from NY I new a little about the friendship.

One day while out at the Jacuzzi my FWW and my kids and I were talking about how hard it is to go shopping with her.

My oldest said "when we went to the mall with OM even he started getting tired of being there"

My FWW went out that night and my youngest made mention of the place they went in NY and how he loved the french fries.

He told me they went with mom and OM one time.

Then my phone bill started going missing so I went on line and viewed the bill and his number was on it.

There were more details that started leaking out.

So 3 months after she came back I called my Aunt, my FWW was staying with her and the OM lived in my Aunts basement apartment.

She told me that the OM admitted to sleeping with FWW.

I called OM he verified. I was on my cell phone waiting for his call back. When he called I stalled until I could get home and handed cell phone to FWW and said you might want to talk to this person he claims he slept with you.

FWW still denied saying he was in love with her and he wanted her to move to vegas with him so he is trying to break us up.

Four days later she admitted to sleeping with him once.

She refuses to read anything that calls her anything you would call a person having an affair. Including FWW.

The last D Day is when she admitted to SF on our sons B Day and our Anniversary plus a couple of other gems.

When I told her I couldn't believe she lied to me for 3 years she said she has only been lying since D Day. I said so while you were there you weren't lying to me.

What is sad is you would think after my aunt and her got into a fistfight over this she would have stopped seeing him. She knew I would find out plus when she went down and asked him to help her get out he said no. He said my Aunt would kick him out if he did.

What a stand up guy.

So here I am. Guess what the funny thing is. This is the day three years ago that my Aunt and her got into a fight because my Aunt refused to watch our kids anymore while my wife ran around on me.

From what I see in your post, your wife is still (post A)treating you with a great deal of disrespect.
Intimacy cannot exist without honesty. It appears she is not too interested in an intimate marriage.

Are you in a Plan?

I would agree with the disrespect.

The struggle now is this. I told her to treat me the way she wanted to be treated.

I know for a fact she would not have wanted me to treat her this way but it was fine for her to do it to me.

I do have a plan. Currently I am in 180 mode from everything else I have done in the past.

I cannot just leave for custody reasons.

I am trying to let the month of June to pass before I make a decesion I might regret later.

I told her that honesty was the foundation of our M. I needed her to be honest so I could trust her. She obviosly had no problem trying to build on a faulty foundation.

I plan A'd that backfired so here I am. LOL