Thanks all for your advice.

SadMommy05, I am so sorry your marriage did not work out. Just like you, I believe my WH had issues before this A.

He thinks its best for us to split up now while we are relatively young so that we can find happiness elsewhere. He also thinks our 3-year old will best be able to handle it now as opposed to much later. Not sure I agree with his reasoning.

He is also bitter about his parent's divorce. They divorced when he and his twin brother were in college, but their younger brother who was still in the house at 14-18 years of age bore the brunt of the divorce. He's told me that he wished his parents had divorced much earlier because they were so unhappy with one another. Now he feels bad that his mother who is in her 60's has never remarried.

So I guess he thinks he's doing me a favor by cutting our losses now while I am still young so that I can have a chance at finding a man I am happy with. How gracious of him (not!).

In any event, it is interestingly though that he has told me he doesn't remember his parents fighting when they were growing up. So wouldn't he think that it was a good thing that his parents stayed together?

innocence_lost, I didn't think about staying in the house. With our first separation back in January, I insisted on being in the house, but I hated it. I never liked it to begin with, it was too big, and it held too many memories. I couldn't even sleep in the marital bed. Plus, my WH would come over unannounced every so often, and that would just hurt me. I will have to discuss this with my therapist tomorrow.

I do see, though, how others may perceive that I was the one who left. However, I don't want to go back and tell WH that if he doesn't want this marriage, he should leave. I just finished reading "Love Must Be Tough" by James Dobson, and he says that if I want to have a chance at my WH coming back to me, I need to act like I don't need him -- meaning no begging, pleading, being emotional, being a doormat, etc.

So, I perceive going back into the home and insisting he leave as being a doormat. I don't want him to see me as weak and pathetic because that will make him think less lovingly of me. And he'll think, "good riddance, I am so glad I left her because look at how pathetic she is. She can't even let me go. I've already moved on, and she is hanging on. What a loser!" That is not what I want. I want him to think, "hey, she seems to be doing okay on her own. She's not calling me. I wonder what she's up to? I haven't talked to her in so long. You know what? I miss her. I love the thrill and excitement of being with the OW, but I still have feelings for my W. What's going on here?"

So, I want him to start feeling conflicted instead of being resolute in his decision to leave.

Who knows though? Maybe to him, absence does not make the heart grow fonder. Perhaps with no contact with me, he might be counting his lucky stars that he doesn't have to deal with me anymore and my "issues," and he can be in a "loving" relationship with someone who thinks the world of him and showers him with affection.

Yeah, I wonder how long that is going to last. OW has a track record of cheating on her Hs and having babies with coworkers.

All of you are right. My story is so very similar to others who have posted here. It is indeed the same thing over and over again. Yet, why do some WS's go back to their marriage and some others blithely move on?

I don't know. I wish I did. I was asking myself this today. I was at church (a volunteer relieved me for a bit so i could go) and I was looking aroud the church and I asking to myself "why?" Why me and not anyone of them?

But then that still small voice (you know who I am talking about?) came into my head and said "Instead of why, ask how are you going to use me now?"
And I liked that much, much better.



I heard and hear the same thing from my WH/stbxh. It'll be easier in them now because they are little.
Translation--This is another excuse to distract you from the real reason I am leaving--for the OW and my own selfish desires.

Does he really think of himself as such a martyr? It's for the kids. When WH says that, I want to slap him through that phone.

How was your night last night? I hope you are getting as much rest as possible.

What state are you in? (if you don't mind me asking).


[color:"green"] Intexas [/color]

I hear you intexas. My 3-year old has severe anger issues, and I am currently in counseling with him. He is definitely affected by this. I had my son Friday night, and he kept saying he wanted to be with his Daddy in the big house and that he didn't like my house. He also said he didn't want to be with me but with his daddy. That just broke my heart and made me cry.

He knows something is wrong, but he can't verbalize it. No child should have to choose between his mother and father. He should have both. Just tragic. It's no wonder I feel go guilty and feel like such a failure. I feel like I am letting down my DS. He doesn't deserve this at all. And to think my WH chooses to leave his family for his own selfishness and to find his "happiness" just pains me. What about his son's happiness? Doesn't he count in all of this? I am crying right now.

Last night was tough. My friend who is going through a divorce himself invited me over for a cookout. It was a nice diversion. However, his sitch is the opposite of mine. He was the WH. Had an affair right before he and his W separated. Then a day after separation, he found his long-lost love of over 30 years ago, and now they are happily living together. Meanwhile, his W moved out of the marital home and is alone. He justifies his actions by saying his marriage was wrong from the get-go. He just stuck around until his children were adults.

Very interesting to hear a WH's side of the story. He believes so much that he was right to leave his W. She was emotionally abusive, not loving, etc. Now he feels pity for her, but he has moved on and is in love and so very happy.

So I look at his sitch, and think, I have been unhappy with my WH for so long. He did not fufill my emotional needs. Maybe this is for the best. Maybe this is my opportunity to finally find someone who is right for me, who is compatible with me. My WH told me that he wanted to be happy, and he wished me happiness. He wanted me to find someone to be happy with. Sounds like he is already moved on.

That's why I think my sitch is so dismal. He's not coming back. He has not shown any conflicting emotions yet. In fact, based on what I've heard he's doing from others, he is truly enjoying the single life. That just sucks for me unfortunately.

Here I am starting to pity myself again. I have to stop feeling like the victim.

I'm in California to answer your question.

Hope, I understand your reasoning as to why you do not want to move back. You are in Plan B. An effective Plan B is dependent on a good Plan A. Your husbands current appraisal of your relationship is construed with negativities with his perception that you left him. A good Plan A will change that .

I did ask my husband to leave on DD day. He did not. I am so glad he didnt. He stayed and it has been a rollercoaster of 2 and half years of recovery but I believe that we are getting there. Memories of the "event" are with disbelief. Did it really happen? I know it did. Both my husband and I are very different as a consequence. We no longer take each other for granted. The same can occur for you. If you do reconcile, your husband will be a different man and so will you.

As regards, moving back- You do not have to appear needy, nor do you need to ask him to leave. The sort of reasons you can give for wanting to live in the family home are

- Our son is very unhappy. He wants to live in the big house. He cries all the time. It is in his best interests, we live there as this is a familiar environment for him.
- I am a christian. We are still married. I have not given up on our marriage. We have our unborn child to consider.
- I cannot continue to work because of the pregnancy. I cannot afford to pay for the other home.

You do not ask to move back. You just do it. It is your right. You do not ask him to leave. You do not file for legal separation. It is his legal responsibility to pay for the house. If he says, the bank can sell it on us. Call his bluff and say let them. I have to do what is best for our family. You do not nag. You remain calm and assertive.

It will be the OW who will feel threatened with the relationship once she finds out you are both living together again. She may start to LB> This is what you want and You Plan A.

You want to be able to look back in 10 years time and be able to say. I gave it my best shot. Your son or unborn child cannot say to you " You left Dad. He did not leave you. Could you not have forgiven him"

If your WH decides to leave> He has then left you and an appropriate Plan B can commence.

At the moment, you are conveniently out of sight, out of mind. Your husband is at the beginning of his affair where the chemical cocktail of inlove feelings are at their strongest.I do not believe a Plan B is the way to go at the moment. I may be wrong. There are other veterans here who may believe it is.

This is my 2 cents worth.

innocence_lost, you really make a good point. I guess at this point, I don't know if I truly want this marriage to work.

A part of me thinks that it is best if I move on because of the type of person my WH is.

Perhaps the reason I want him back so much is because I am suffering from withdrawal symptoms, I don't want to be alone, and because he now has someone else. Being abandoned makes the abandonee want the abandoner more. It's basic psychology. We want what we don't have. But what if I get him back? Then what? He'll still be the same basic person. Narcissists, like my WH, are the hardest people to change because they think they don't have a problem.

As you can see, I am grappling with a lot of issues. So this is one for my therapist tomorrow. My therapist thinks that I am better off without someone like my WH, and the best thing my WH can do for me is to leave me alone. Not very pro-marriage huh? But I think he was feeding off of my feelings. I was feeling very angry at our last session and wasn't saying I wanted to work on my marriage.

Do you really think that at this point in his affair where the love feelings are the strongest is where I need to step in? He is still my H after all. You're right, I don't want to regret this and say I didn't give it my best shot. I just feel he is way into the fog with OW that me coming back into his life will be insignificant. He is so much stronger now because he has her, so it would be easy to just brush me off.

I need to digest this. Any one else have any thoughts?

I think it is best to try to save your marriage. Otherwise you will always have doubts. It feels good, even if your marriage fails, to know that you did your very best.

So are you saying the whole 10 years of the marriage weren't very good?

No, the whole 10 years weren't bad -- although he would probably beg to differ.

Unfortunately, I think I have already given it my all the first time we reconciled. And I was successful in getting him back. How many times must I continue to do this until I feel I did my very best?

I mean when does one decide there's no more hope? I am deathly afraid of putting my vulnerability out there only for him to tell me that he is no longer in love with me, and he is in another relationship. I don't think my heart can take much more heartbreak.

I'm so confused. Help.

There is no reason to hurry. You can take your time and think about things. The affair almost always ends. It is hard to realize that someone you love could treat you so poorly, but that is just the way they are.

I am happy that I waited 3 years to file for divorce. I have no doubts, and life is wonderful again.

My WH seemed to adore me until he met the OW, then he moved out and never looked back. Now I would never take him back, and feel comfortable with it.

Are you eating any better?

H&C--
I'm with Believer on this one. My marriage, like hers, is not one that wins the MB certificate of recovery, but I feel recovered (okay, not fully, but I am well along on the road most days), and I base so much on that on the fact that I believe I did all I could and all I felt was within the bounds of respectabilitity (for myself) to do. I wanted my boys to know one day that their mom didn;t just give up. That I was willing and offering of forigveness--ultimatley, it was still pretty much me finally saying enough is enough (even though he filed, he still wanted a "trial" run here and there, etc.) and deciding I had done what I should do.

I guess what I am saying is you'll never regret trying, but you might regret just walking away. NOW, let me tell you--if you just walk away, I'd still support you and be one of your encouragers and best girlfriends : ). You have every right too. But I wanted you to see also the flip side of this, coming from my perspective, especially since our sitches are so similar.

Keep taking care of yourself. And keep us posted.

You're right. I don't need to make a decision today. I am now leaning towards moving back to the big house. If indeed I go on bedrest for the rest of my pregnancy, someone will have to stay with me to take care of me. Where I am now, there is no room for a third person. Plus, when I have the baby, this house does not have room for a crib. I would be more comfortable in the big house. I shouldn't have had to move out just because he wanted us to be over.

And he should have to continue paying for our debts.

What I am now contemplating doing is exposing this affair. I don't think anyone knows yet. However, I told my two cousins, both of whom have husbands who work at the same firm as my WH. So I'm sure it will get around. Plus, I was planning on calling the HR department at WH's work to find out about financial matters in case I do file for legal separation. I'll just let it slip that he is having an affair with a fellow attorney.

I am contemplating emailing the senior partners of his law firm. I don't know them, but I'm sure they would be interested in knowing that their two attorneys are having an affair. Still kinda scared about doing this, but I suppose I can be persuaded.

I am also considering sending WH an email detailing my thoughts about all of this and copying his mother, father, two brothers and OW. He forwards them all of my personal emails anyway, so I figure I'll just copy them and save WH a step.

I'm going to draft the email tomorrow and post it here for your review.

I guess I am now in the exposure stage. Oh, WH is going to be very very mad.

Hope,

I will make this very quick. Exposure is vital. You may want to do this once you have already relocated back to the big house.

Also, I do not know about sending an email to his mother and father. You may want to tell them in person.

As regards the OW, I dont know if it is any of her business what you have to say to your husband. The more she is kept in the dark and kept wondering the better. Other posters may have a different view. What is there to gain by keeping her informed.

Since the affair was not exposed before , what did his
family think when you moved out.

Carefully plan your next steps . Do not act in haste.

We are here for you.

Innocence

H&C--

I thought you have exposed when you posted this:


I think I've lost you here, unless you're talking about re-exposing due to the PA??

Sorry for the confusion. At that point in time last year, all I knew was of an EA. As of June 23, however, I now have definitive proof of a PA. That is what I am planning to expose.

In my mind, there is no difference. In fact, for me, an EA is more damaging than a purely PA because what I've always wanted from my H was to be emotionally connected. Now, OW has that from him.

Because it was "only" an EA, my WH didn't really think it was a big deal and I guess neither did his family. But now, it's physical.

Hope-
Pleae do not threaten to expose. Either do it or dont. You have a 3 year old, and you know how useless threats are. "DS, please don't bite your friend again or I'll have to put you in time-out." That's a warning shot which DS (or WH) will use to plan the next step. You've already experessed your disgust to WH and he's ignoring you. Time for threats is past.

Yes, yes, yes, expose to everyone. But do it all at once. Don't let the rumor mill at the firm do your work. Get in there, go to the senior partner(s) and tell them this workplace A is destroying your M. Tell them you are pregnant.

Also, I seem to recall seeing on divorcing thread that WH is threatening to sue for 50-50 custody of the newborn. TELL THIS TO THE PARTNERS. I don't think they'd be promoting anyone who is about to take on 50% duty with a newborn. Talk about decreased productivity!

Remember the cardinal rule of sales: What's in it for me? WIIFM. When you are talking to the partners, tell them why this situation is bad for THEM. When talking to co-workers, tell them why this situation is bad for THEM. (If there are other married men who are sanctioning this A, tell them you'll ask their wives what they think about the firm applauding this obviously deviant female attorney being a homewrecker.)

Put pressure where it hurts. Tell WH's family about the threat for custody--does that mean grandmom is going to be bottle feeding that newborn 3-4 nights a week? Huh-uh. I'll bet that's going to hurt his A more than anything. Do the parents of WH go to church? Talk to THEIR pastor. Ask their pastor to try to shame them if they accept this A.

Don't expose in little bits, though. Make up a short list of who needs to know, and WIIF (that person). Understand that the motivation for a senior partner to end the A is very different than the motivation for STB grandmom. Make each person understand the impact the A has on THEM.

If the partnership is selfish, so be it. Make it in their selfish best intersts to end that A and get rid of that nut job woman. Good luck and much strength to you!

innocence_lost, I just saw your post. WH's father and mother do not live in the area, so my only recourse is to either call or email. The last time I called WH's mother, she was very cruel to me and said no one in her family liked me. What a terrible thing to say.

She sides with her son naturally, so I am not going to sway her in any way.

WH's stepmother, on the other hand, is very understanding -- at least to my face. She is a Christian and a believer whereas everyone else in his family is not. I will probably get sympathy from her.

As for the OW, maybe I won't copy her on the email, but I do want to confront her and email her directly with my own thoughts. WH will most likely forward her my email to him anyway though.

As for WH's brother, this is what he wrote to WH after I emailed WH about complications in my pregnancy:

"Before you go getting all worried unnecessarily, I would check to verify what HopeNCourage's physcian said. Benign fibroid tumors are very common and rarely affect a growing fetus. She is likely blowing all of this all out of proportion to get your sympathy and money! Don't believe it just yet ... and you know how manipulative she can be....

Also, why should you have to pay her any alimony or living expenses? She is an attorney who is capable of making as much money if not more than you [I am no longer working as an attorney because my H and I decided that I needed a less stressful job so that I could take care of our son, so I make half of what WH makes], and just because she decides to go back to school for some other degree she's never going to use doesn't mean you should have to pay for her living expenses ... new baby or not! [when WH and I separated the first time, I asked myself what would make me really happy. I realized that I wasn't happy with my current job, and I really wanted to go back to school to get my Ph.D. I just never did it because I was thinking of my H. Well, since he wasn't in the picture, I was going to follow my passion].

And I suggest that you let her know from jump that you will be formula feeding the baby, NOT BREAST FEEDING, so that you can spend equal amounts of time with your new son or daughter. NONE of us were ever breast-fed and we turned out just fine."

I was so hurt when I read this. Despite what my WH has done and continues to do, my family has been nothing but supportive of him. Then his brother accuses me of being manipulative when what I did was inform my WH via email, because I didn't want to get emotional, of my pregnancy complications.

I also want to breastfeed because I believe it is best for the baby, and WH's brother is saying no way. He has no right to tell me and my WH what to do about our baby.

Just makes me think that perhaps I don't need to be in this kind of a family.

Oh, yeah Hope, and I forgot to add about the custody/breastfeeding issue---if your H is serious about pursuing this, you might want to tell your story to LaLecheLeague and Mothering Magazine. Both could help you find pro-breastfeeding lawyers or at least give your attorney the support she needs to defend you in a custody battle.

imanotherone, thanks for your sage advice. I will just expose and not threaten my WH with exposure. Scary!

I just met with my therapist and told him about my plans this week: (1) confront WH and tell him I am moving back in; and (2) expose to everyone. My therapist is not familiar with Harley and MB, but he thought Plan A and B were good causes of action. So now I am on board.

My WH just left me a message telling me last minute that he will be going out of town for the long holiday weekend to "play" with his brother, and he wanted me to take care of DS. I knew his single life would get in the way of his desire for 50% custody. Ugh! My attorney told me to document how ofen WH had DS, so that I could prove in court that he really does not see DS 50% of the time.

I also talked to my attorney today about filing a legal separation. I am meeting him tomorrow. I asked him about me moving into the marital home and whether I would be responsible for that home debt. He said that is community debt, so both of us are responsible anyway, so I might as well move in. My WH is not going to be irresponsible and not pay the mortgage because despite everything else, he is not that financially irresponsible.

I will hold off on filing the legal separation until I see what my WH does with me moving back into the house. If he decides to move out, I will file the legal separation, so I can get support. Sound like a plan?

I feel like I am now taking back my life instead of waiting for something to happen to me. While I am still depressed, I feel like I do have something to live for.

Thanks for all of your encouragement and support.

Dear Hope,

It is encouraging to see you be pro-active in your sitch as well as pro-you!! I just read your posts today and it seemed like you are depressed. I take AD's and it helps tremendously, however, it your condition, I wouldn't take them either. How about exercising? I've read where this can help as well, plus it would ease your stress and clear your mind. Maybe taking walks with your son, take him on a bike ride, really anything physical. Also, I don't mean to be cruel here, but your son may be having very different relationships with you and your WH right now. Your WH is happy, probably taking him places, having fun with him. You are crying, depressed, and not feeling well due to the pregnancy. I would suggest that you try to take charge of your life not only for you, but your son as well.

I know this is marriage builders, but for you, your sanity, and your family, it may be that you put the M on hold and work on everything else instead. After all, there is only so much time and energy in a day, if you spread yourself too thin, it may lead to neglecting the very things that are most important. I wouldn't even suggest you play anytime of games, just prioritize yourself, your son, and your unborn child.

BTW, my M was very stressful during my second pregnancy. I was working full-time and going to school, and had a 17 mo. old son. My second son was very needy when he was born, I had to hold him in one of those carriers/slings close to me. He was often jittery as well. I often wondered if the stress of the M had an adverse affect on him. When I went into labor, I didn't even want my H with me, but I finally woke him up. My WH is similar to yours, selfish, charming, etc.. Also, I read in one of your posts that it would be difficult to change your WH. I hope what you meant to say is that it would be difficult for your WH to change, bc no one can change another person.

If you are an attorney, you are smart and were dedicated to get through law school. If you can do that, you can come out of this shining!

Hope,

I have only a few questions to ask you.

1. Why confront your husband about moving back in. You do not need his permission. As you said, it is community property. Just do it and since he is going to be away, that is the perfect opportunity. When he comes back, he will find you there already set up. Be matter of a fact about it. You felt it was the right thing to do.

2. Filing for legal separation is one of the first steps to leaving a marriage. What is there for you to gain by doing this. If he wants a divorce, let him psychologically and physically do it. Not you. Actions count more than words. Talk is cheap. I would not be paying attention to anything he says but rather what he does. He obviouslly was uncomfortable with moving out . That is why he coherced you into it.

3. Look at which members of the family support you and expose to them. I need to think about this one a bit more. Are there cousins, sister in law, best man etc who might be able to help you.

As regards, breast feeding I would not be discussing this any further with your husband. Can your husband dictate this?

Plan your exposure. Be methodical. Do it in the one day without warning to your husband or anyone else. I believe it is best to do it after you have established yourself back in the marital home.

Good luck

Did you see pepsi's post about having arrangements to pay for child care on visitation days that one parent is not able to do? It can be in a parenting plan. That way, when one parent would rather "play" than take their parenting time, the other one gets reimbursed for any necessary child care.

Your husband's family sounds a bit disfunctional, especially when they get into your baby's feeding arrangements. YIKES!!!!!!!!

By the way, I breast fed both of my sons until they were 3. I'd love to see what your BIL would say about THAT!