Hi Hope

Sounds as if the work party went well. The OW was not there . That is great. You should continue making an appearance at your husbands work. Let her feel uncomfortable. With any luck, she may leave the company.

What would your husband do if you were to hug him whilst you were both in bed. Make it a short hug, a kiss on the neck, if he is turned the other way ,and a good night. Make it brief, so that it does not matter if he does not respond. Let him get used to you being physical . Slowly goes it.

Hope, you may want to consider posting in the Recovery section as I believe you have moved into this phase. There are a lot of good people in Recovery, who will also be able to offer their insight , support, encouragement and advice.

Are you still working. How are you feeling. You have fibroids?

Innocence

Hi innocence_lost,

We had a good weekend. We took our boat out on Sunday and had a great time with our DS. Lots of deposits into the love bank. Then Monday afternoon he called out of the blue just to tell me he loved me. First time he has said that since we separated. During our separation he said he loved me but was not in love with me. Monday evening, we had SF. Missed him so much.

So I guess I'm in recovery??? Not sure because he still has contact with OW. She works very closely with him. There is NO way he will quit his job, and I doubt she will either, so I'm stuck with them working together.

I've come to the realization that he has chosen to be with me, so the more I make love deposits in his love bank, the less he will want to be with her. He still denies anything physical ever happened between them (other than a drunken kiss shared last year). I'm not sure if I will ever get the truth.

I'm not sure if I really want to know. If anything did happen in the past, it happened and there is nothing I can do about it. If I can move on, and he can move on, we can try to build a better marriage for our future.

Of course I will never forget, and in time, I will definitely want to process this by talking with him about it, but I think for now I will hold off on that talk and concentrate on fulfilling his ENs.

As for my pregnancy, the good news is that my fibroid has not gotten bigger so I may not have to go on bedrest. The bad news is that the reason I am in pain is because I have a hernia. So, I still can't exert myself. Oh well.

Anyway, thanks to all for listening to me and posting me your advice, thoughts and suggestions. You all have been such a great help during this most difficult time. Hopefully, I am on the path of recovery. If not, I know where to turn to for empathy, sympathy, compassion and caring.

HopeNCourage

I hate to rain on the parade, but that doesn't sound like the ideal situation, them working together.

Also the sexual innuendos are extremely disrespectful. I think the two of you need to see a marriage counselor.

I agree. I think his behavior is very disrespectful. I am going to bring it up in IC and learn ways to tell him how I feel in a respectful and loving manner. I am currently reading the book, Boundaries, by Cloud and Townsend, and I need to set my boundaries.

As for them working together, it is definitely not ideal. I'm not sure what to do with that. During our first reconciliation, I insinuated that he might have to leave his job because I couldn't handle him working with her. He blew up and said if I ever messed with his job again, he would definitely leave me.

I will have to deal with that -- but just not right now.

WH does not want to go to MC. We tried that during our first reconciliation and according to WH, it was a waste of time.

Hi Hope,

This is great news. It is not a good thing that they are working together. With time, you may be able to persuade your husband to leave or better still, make it so uncomfortable for her that she leaves.

It is important that you have a continued presence at your husbands work.

Continue making love deposits into his love bank and he will eventually reciprocate.


Innocence

Your story makes my stomach clench up....

your husband is very very lost right now....
there is no value nor honor in his actions....

and those that he seeks outside of you to validate his crappy actions...ie his golfing friends...are easy targets...for they will never hold him accountable

I bumped a post on what you should do in plan A regarding contact...

do you have any access to cell phone records etc...can you get your hands on his phone...etc...
you should if you can...

also you need a huge support group outside of him....have you one there...if not start putting energy in to it..
find one that is for pregnant moms in your area..check in to local birthing center for classes for pregnant women

also have you told soeme one close for support.....

you may have to seriously plan in your head for plan B..prior to the birth the of the baby...

I am afraid of new mome with new baby...left home alone on a Friday night cause daddies out with the boys.....

and you need to evaluate if that is the type of life you want......

you CAN NOT condone his notions of doing and going where he wants..
you can not control that..

but you need to learn to say without argueing...

that those are NOT the actions a person interested in spending time with you ...and you can only view his actions as how he feels....

start to scare him a little that you will NOT go on indefinetly with his actions...without threatening him but by planting seeds.....

seeds of doubt in his head..
seeds of hope etc...

ARK

I hate to tell you, but he probably just went underground to appease both you and his reputation. After showing up at the party in your condition, it most likely cast a bad light on him, how could he behave the way he did/does with his wife pregnant? Men who search for validation from other women like your WH (and mine) do not just stop, and if it hasn't yet escalated to PA's, it will because of the entitlement issues.

Please don't put your head in the sand like I did because we have a picture of how we want things to look, not the way they really do look.

Take care of yourself and yours.

Well, hello, I see that alot has changed since the last time that I checked in with you! I am glad to hear that you and baby are still doing good, I am concerned about your H's behavior. I was very disappointed about the party with the sexual comments being whispered. I hope the OW's H chewed her out. I am very concerned and I think that you need to keep your guard up.

You are doing a great job by the way, keep your heels dug in for the long haul. I believe that you got some good info from MIL, that could explain alot, if that's all he saw growing up.

Keep your focus and take care!

Thanks all for your input.

My WH got a new cell phone, and I can't figure out how to check incoming/outgoing calls, so I don't know if he has been calling OW.

However, his text messages are available for me to see. This morning while he was in the shower, I checked his phone. On Monday (the day after we had such a good time on the boat with DS and the day before SF), he texted OW and asked if she was free for lunch.

I am devastated. I thought he was trying to work on our R. He told me that this week was going to be very busy for him because he has to cover another partner's appointments while he is on vacation. Apparently, however, he has time to go to lunch with OW AND he is going golfing again with his buddies this Friday starting at noon.

When I found the text message, my first reaction was to confront him with it. However, I stopped myself from doing that because that's what I did with our first reconciliation whenever I found something fishy in his email/voicemail. That was/is a huge LB for him.

What should I do? I did go out and buy a digital voice recorder and plan on putting in in the home office and in his car. I suppose I need to build a case against him (as any good lawyer should), because everytime I confront him, he denies everything and says I go off and assume things based on half the story.

He acts like he's working on our marriage. We made plans to go to my family reunion in a few weeks and then we made plane reservations to go to his family reunion in August, so he at least is looking for us to stay together through August, then why is continuing to "see" the OW?

I wish I had been a fly during the lunch he had with OW. Perhaps he was breaking it off with her??? Because that afternoon, he called me and said he was just calling to say I love you. Then the next night we made love. Prior to that, he hadn't said I love you or had SF for almost two months.

Please tell me what to do. Should I find out where his head is at? Or do I go underground and pretend everything is fine and continue to do a Plan A? This is just killing me knowing that I have to swallow my pride, my self-esteem, so that I can be the perfect wife to him.

It just seems so unfair. But, I know life is just unfair. I want this M and R more than he does, so I'm the one who has to work harder at it -- even though he had the A.

All you BSs' out there, I feel your pain.

Should I let WH know what my boundaries are now? For example, tell him that I was hurt that he flirted with women in front of me and also that I don't want him contacting OW? Or, should I concentrate on Plan A and then after some time has passed and my love deposits in his bank has built up tell him my boundaries? What strategy is best? I don't want to mess this up.

Read everything that you can about false recovery and take note of the common denominators.

Dear Hope,

I am truly sorry that you have to deal with this. I applaud you for not confronting him with the text message, I would have at the time and as you said, he would have denied it, told you half truths, or just out and out lies...sigh.

**Hugs**, you are so strong for being so young. You are doing the right things for you right now, trying to think things through, get advice. I don't think your WH ever had to deal with losing you and the family you have together. He is a cake-eater right now. You'll have to decide whether you want to play the part of good little wife while he plays around with the guys and gals, or do you want to define your own role for yourself? If you do, what is it? You cannot make him try to recover the M, you have suggested MC, he seems to resist it all. What is your plan for your next steps?

Hi Ark,

Thanks for your post. Here are my comments to yours:

"Your story makes my stomach clench up...."

Me and you both.

"your husband is very very lost right now....
there is no value nor honor in his actions...."

That's probably why I feel so horrible about myself right now. On the one hand, he says all the right things but his actions show otherwise. That's how I have felt during our M. He is great with words (he's a very successful trial lawyer after all), but his actions don't live up to his words.

"and those that he seeks outside of you to validate his crappy actions...ie his golfing friends...are easy targets...for they will never hold him accountable"

Yes, I agree. They go golfing every Friday, and my WH wants to start doing that too. In fact, he's going with them this Friday again. He keeps telling me that he is so busy with work yet he finds time take off Friday afternoon to spend with these guys. He also apparently has time to go to lunch with OW. He has not asked me this week to do anything with him even though I work from home and can easily meet him for lunch.

Also, ironically, one of his golfing buddies used to date OW during the time of WH and OW's A. I wonder if he knows the extent of their R.



I bumped a post on what you should do in plan A regarding contact...

"do you have any access to cell phone records etc...can you get your hands on his phone...etc...
you should if you can..."

Unfortunately, he has a work phone so I don't have access to cell phone records. However, last year, one of the partners in his firm got suspicious and checked the cell phone records and found a very high volume of text messages between OW and WH. They were asked if they were having an A. Both denied.

"also you need a huge support group outside of him....have you one there...if not start putting energy in to it..
find one that is for pregnant moms in your area..check in to local birthing center for classes for pregnant women"

Yes, luckily my immediate and extended family are in the area. I also just started going to a mom's networking group affiliated with a church in the area. They meet two times a month. So I do have support.

"also have you told soeme one close for support....."

I do have close friends I speak with, and sometimes I feel bad because I tend to burden them with my problems. That's why I am turning to MBs because I don't want to wear out my welcome with my friends.

"you may have to seriously plan in your head for plan B..prior to the birth the of the baby..."

I don't want to go there, but I will start taping my WH and see if he is really tellng me the truth. As my therapist says though, "where there's smoke, there's fire."

"I am afraid of new mome with new baby...left home alone on a Friday night cause daddies out with the boys....."

Unfortunately, my WH thinks this is normal. He told me that when he was growing up, his father always went out on Friday nights and his mom stayed with him and his brothers. As it turns out, his father had many long-term affairs during WH's childhood. This is definitely NOT normal.

He did ask if it was okay if he went golfing this Friday. So if it's any consolation, he didn't say he was going golfing as if he felt he was entitled; rather, he did ask for my permission -- although if I had said no, he probably would have gone anyway without my approval. How manipulative now that I think about it!


"and you need to evaluate if that is the type of life you want......'

That's what precipitated our second breakup. I left him for a month because I thought that I didn't want to live my life like this with a WH who would never put me and our family first.

He did tell me a few weeks ago that he wanted to be able to go out with his friends, but that if his M and R was good and happy, of course he would want to be with his family. At this point though, he said, he isn't happy with me and that's why he'd rather be with his friends.

"you CAN NOT condone his notions of doing and going where he wants..
you can not control that..

but you need to learn to say without argueing...

that those are NOT the actions a person interested in spending time with you ...and you can only view his actions as how he feels...."

I will have to work on this because it is a trigger point for me. I'm afraid he will counter and say I'm just being paranoid and jealous, and he doesn't want to be around someone like that. Then what do I say? My boundary would be then that I don't want to be with a person like that. But, in reality, I don't that right now. I don't want to go to Plan B. I'm not ready for Plan B.

"start to scare him a little that you will NOT go on indefinetly with his actions...without threatening him but by planting seeds....."

Again, I'm afraid this will push him over the edge. He may already be conflicted with me and OW, and if I start LBing, that will make it easier for him to choose OW. Timing is everything right? Do I push down my feelings of hurt, humilation, and lack of self-worth in the short-term for hopes for a better future together?

"seeds of doubt in his head..
seeds of hope etc..."

To my face, he's been very nice, not altogether affectionate but at least he doesn't turn away when I try to touch him. So I am planting seeds of hope.

ARK

To clarify my earlier post regarding the timeline for SF. This last Sunday, WH, DS and I had a really great time going to the lake. The next day, he texted OW about lunch. I'm thinking they had lunch, and perhaps he said it was over between them because by that afternoon, he had changed his tune with me.

Prior to that day, even though we are in the same house again, he told me that we weren't together. Well, after lunchtime on Monday, he called me out of the blue just to say I love you. That night, we made love (I said in an earlier post it was the next night). Prior to that, absolutely nothing was happening in bed, no touching, nothing. So he went from absolutely nothing, to SF.

Something happened, and it's killing me to not ask him what.

Is there some reason that you shouldn't?

I get the fear..the not wanting to rock the boat..[well..I get it in theory anyway]

The part I don't understand is the part where you have become a passive element in the marriage again..and wondering if that is OK with you.

So...you're back together because he decided? He also decides the terms of recovery?

Is this the plan or A plan that is kosher with you?

The foundation you lay down is the one you are going to be building on..so if it were me..I would probably address it directly.

From here..where I'm sitting.. it looks like even a recovery would be a recovery of nonequals who have no actual "plan" and no agreement about what will and will not be acceptable in their marriage.

So I would ask you again..is that what you want? Is that enough? If not then the time to address it is now.

Hi Hope,

I seem to be with you on this one. Good progress has been made. I do no feel that you need to be "rocking the boat" so to speak, for the time being.

Because his attitude changed dramatically overnight, pinpoint it to after the lunch with the OW, I would suspect that things did not go well and he made his choice , which was you. At this stage, I would not be bringing up his changed behaviour. You can do that later on.

I would be concentrating on doing a good Plan A. He asked you about going golfing Friday. You agreed. Next time, make other arrangements- organize a family function. Go to dinner. Gradually break the habit of him going out with friends every Friday. I do not think it is a good idea to be blunt about it.

Do not even think of a Plan B, at this stage. There is no need.

Just my thoughts.

Innocence

Do not even think of a Plan B, at this stage. There is no need.

here's my threadjack public service announcement...

IF you are in plan A...
you MUST be thinking of plan B...
and you must on one level be preparing for it...

Plan A is very very difficult...Plan B is your ending date of giving without expectation...

it is my opinion that halfway through plan A you sit down compose your plan B letter...and make your plan on the logistics...

why you ask..

well let me tell you that too many BS...come home to a WS who has packed his crap and left.....

and they are...blindsided in the middle of plan A with no plans on what to do..

problem with a plan B letter after a big crisis like a blow up or a moving out WS.....
it waters down and undermines the power of plan B...

Plan B needs to come at a time when plan A is in full swing with good results...NOT after some crisis...

plan B after a crisis will be viewed as...

poor BS he/she is just a little upset right now..they'll come around...etc...

ALSO

IN this case..
I am very very very concerned that this WS has taken the affair underground......

why

there is no admitting to it

there is no withdrawal....but sure does seem to be a lot of appeasement...and giving of a little ...just enough to throw poor wifey off the trail...

while he goes golfing and out with boys....as if entitled to...

what am I saying..

PLAN for the worse especially in the situation where a newborn is in the picture....

in plan a spouses should seek legal counsel
should ivestigate what legal rights there are to blocking OP from the children OR children....

anyone here interested in the OP helping dad babysit the newborn...

NOT ME!!!!

and look at the M/O of this WS...every time she confronts...

he gets really really mad...

why because it works in keeping her mouth shut...

she doesn't want to upset him
she doesn't want to make him angry....

there are REAL LBs
which are disrespectful name calling...
emotional games...

then there are too bad if you THINK this is an LB...but I'm saying it anyways...

in this case...

the stakes are the highest....

keyloggers
voicerecorders...
access to texts...

already he's backing her in to the corner...golfing with the boys....which is fine...but from friday afternoon till 11:00 at night...is a bit over the edge....

ARK

Hope,

If the lunch was a break-up and he was recommitting to you, why would he not say so, wouldn't that have earned him points with you? He did not tell you about the lunch bc he does not want you to know. He behaved differently towards you because he is underground with the A. Look at the behavior right in front of you at the party? He threw you a bone, I hate to say it. They (WS) act like this knowingly, they plan it out. The WS probably is confused, but you need to not be confused about what you want and what a M to you looks like. It is not ok for the two of them to go to lunch together.

I don't say this with any pleasure, it is just so familiar, not only with myself but what I have read here on the boards.

Your WH know that you have family at his work, right? Could you say that this is how you found out about the lunch vs. the text message?

Now I'm so confused.

nabohio, why would WH go underground? He has left me twice before. If he was having an A, he would just go.

As for what I want in a M, I definitely don't want him to continue seeing her. I will not be a doormat and let him do whatever he wants. My question was with the timing of when I have a talk with him about my feelings.

My therapist says that I should not engage in any deep R talks right now. He knows WH and WH's MO is to run when attacked. So if I come across as "attacking" him, he just might leave again. This is especially not a good time because WH hasn't even committed to this R. Even though his actions look like he wants this R, he hasn't verbalized his commitment. That's why I think it would behoove me to keep trying to build a friendship with him -- at least for a little while (perhaps through the end of July and perhaps August). We are going to be spending a lot of time together on vacation the next two months, so that will be good for our R.

At the same time, though, I do agree with you ark that I need to plan for Plan B. If WH continues to stay in his job with OW, that will be hard for me. I will need to make some hard decisions.

I have decided, though, for the time being, for the sake of this unborn baby, I cannot take any more stress and moving, so I am going to stay put with the status quo if need be for the duration of my pregnancy. If, and when, I do go into Plan B, it will be after the baby is born in November.

Remember, it's not just me that I have to think about. My baby's wellbeing comes before mine. If I need to, I am going to have to suck it up.

I also spoke to my pastor yesterday about my situation. He says if I want this M and H commits, I need to just trust what WH says (even if he continues to deny anything has happened) and move on from there. No snooping, no LBs, no asking about what happened, etc.

This advice is contrary to what MB says to do, so now I am thoroughly confused.

I think time is on my side though. Each day, WH is thawing out. Yesterday, H came up to me several times to kiss me and say I love you. Last night before we drifted off to sleep, I asked him why the change in him. He said that during the separation he had always loved me.

If you want your M to work, at some point, don't you have to trust your WH and move on?

ark, are you saying that I should give him a Plan B letter in the midst of my Plan A?

I have decided that I don't want to do anything drastic for the duration of my pregnancy, so my Plan A will continue at least through November and probably the end of the year.

"If you want your M to work, at some point, don't you have to trust your WH and move on? "

HNC - this trust takes time to build back up. It really can't be returned to the trust buster in a day. I'm sure you've heard that it takes an average of 2 years to recover a M. My WW thawed as well, was sweet and nice to me, lots of ILYs, told me she was commited to the M yet continued the A. She was keeping us both - myself and OM - by playing to each other's needs.

Entirely within the relm of possibility that your H is fully reformed, repentant and committed to the marriage. Based on personal and forum experience, it is highly unlikely. Nothing wrong with treating his behavior as if it's geniune AND at the same time being suspicious of it. Plan A is creating a welcome environment for your H to come back to AND at the same time protecting yourself IN case he is disingenuous.

As for pastor vs. MB I would tend to side with MB since those that post here are expert in affairs. Pastors, MCs, friends, family apply GENERAL principals of human nature to affairs. Unfortunately these general rules do not apply in affair world -- those that have not been through an A or studied them aren't qualified to advise. Well meaning advisors are 90% of the time off the mark.

BTW - serveral times during my trials I doubted the MB posters. EVERY TIME they were right. Affairs just don't seem to deviate from the standard template. I thought my A and WW was different. Truth was they just weren't.

If you want the best, purest answer regarding your M and the A, counsel with the Harleys. Have you done that? These guys are A wizards. Professionals. Those of us that are posting to you are ametures. If you're confused on board advice, cut through it w/a call to the pros.

Find your center. It's not in your H or your M. It's in you.