While I agree with some of the VERY GOOD points that TruBluz has made to you, I think that standing up for yourself would best be done FACE TO FACE...VERBALLY...Emails and/or letters will only become fodder for comedy and ridicule with OM and/or her friends right now-SICK, TWISTED AND WRONG, BUT OH SO TRUE...PLUS, doing it in person will show her that you have the decency to do for her what she has not done for you...LOOK HER IN THE EYE AND TELL HER THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT SHE IS DOING...HAVING AN ADULTEROUS AFFAIR!!! She is YOUR wife and she has NO RIGHT to make decisions about your life without your input!!!

YOU CAN DO THIS PAUL!!! AND WHEN YOU DO, YOU WILL FEEL A HUGE SURGE OF POWER...STRENGTH, MY FRIEND...Remember, she or the OM do NOT define your masculinity, only YOU DO!!!

Mrs. W

Ok, I called my wife at work and I asked about when we are going to meet with the realtor next week. She could tell I was still angry about something and distant...then I said...

"You should know why I'm upset. Just take a look in the mirror. Word does get around you know. I was lied to and you have hurt me very, very much. That is all I have to say. Let me know what you find out from the realtor"

Then I just hung up on her. I know I shouldn't have done that part, but I just did it out of anger.

God, I feel bad now, but I did take a stand. Being firm and stern is not my thing.

Can SOMEONE please tell me what I did was ok? I did find in an email of hers today that a friend told my wife..."it won't be long and you and (current flame) can come out of the closet". So there is NO doubt something is going on.

Paul...

You still did not tell her you KNOW that she is a MARRIED WOMAN having an ADULTEROUS AFFAIR with Mr. Loser Boy...That my friend is the God's honest TRUTH...You don't have to prove it to her by revealing your source, btw, because she ALREADY KNOWS about the ADULTEROUS AFFAIR!!! And that's what you call it...don't say "affair", don't say "inappropriate relationship"...call it what it is, an ADULTEROUS AFFAIR, k? Know this, she will quiz you to death to know how and how much you know...POKER FACE PAUL, got it? You just KNOW...

Now, what you do now VERY MUCH depends on what YOU WANT here...Do you want to try and save your marriage??? If you do, hanging up on her in an angry outburst is ill advised...Really, I think it is anyway, as it is a REACTION, rather than an ACTION...YOU be the MAN that YOU have always INTENDED to be...Don't let her change that...YOU CONROL YOU!!!

Mrs. W

Also, I would be TOO busy to meet with the realtor next week...or anytime soon for that matter...Why are you making this so easy for her Paul? Can you rethink selling the house? If she wants out of this, make her do all the heavy lifting...

Mrs. W

Well, I'm sure 100% she KNOWS that I KNOW now. I do feel bad about hanging up like that, but I just did it. I don't know why. I just wanted to say what I had to say, reveal what is going on, and not play Q&A with her.

She just emailed me and said...

"I'm not sure what that was all about on the phone. I'm sure there are plenty of rumors going around about me. There always has been and I doubt that our situation eased them any. It really bothers me that you can't talk with me. I think that if you've heard something, you could at least talk with me about it."

Don't you think she is just in denial. All the evidence is there in her emails and I've read them. Even photos of them together, etc. But she doesn't know this is how I found out.

Now what do I do? I really don't think this marriage can be saved because I honestly don't think she wants it and really, I don't think she is healthy and mature enough for me.

Any more advice?

Personal Story:

When embroiled in my own ADULTEROUS AFFAIR, I told Mr. W that I wanted to separate...His simple pat answer to me? NO. I was so taken aback and bumfuzzled by that...I stammered and bowed up...I had NO CLUE what to do with that...

STUMP HER and TRIP HER UP a time or three Paul...WSes are pretty STUPID creatures...

Mrs. W

As far as the realtor goes, we may have to each meet with him separatly now. We both want to sell the house and get out of it ASAP. I'm not sure we can meet all together or not.

I don't want it to be this way. I hate fighting and having tension. Hate it.

Do you want to save your marriage?

Mrs. W

So how would I stump her MrsWondering?

Don't you think the best thing for me right now is to let what I said to her on the phone just sink in.

I'm not replying to her email. She KNOWS what she did or has done.

I know she just filed for divorce last week, but that is no excuse for her to be involved with someone else right now. And I'm SURE there was something going on during the separation time (last 4 months). No wonder her feelings were "gone"...she was emotionally attached to someone else, or at least starting to.

I don't like to be the mean guy at all, this sucks. But I know she has lied to me and been hiding this. I've asked her more than once during the separation if she was EMOTIONALLY or PHYSICALLY involved with anyone. Each time she said no and I let it go.

Ugh, this just gives me a headache. Like I said, I don't like being mean. I'm a kind hearted guy and this is going against my grain.

I'm sure she is going to let her friends know now how "mean" I am. She "knows" that I'm not a mean guy deep in her heart.

If you are waiting for her to tell you the truth, get rid of that illusion RIGHT NOW!!! She is NOT in DENIAL...She KNOWS very well whats going on...What she doesn't know is what or how much you know...The only thing she needs to KNOW is that you KNOW that she IS HAVING AN ADULTEROUS AFFAIR WITH MR. LOSER BOY...Tell her you know it ALL!!! DO NOT TELL HER HOW YOU KNOW...YOU JUST KNOW...AGAIN, SHE ALREADY KNOWS...YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROVE IT TO HER...CONFRONT HER AND MAKE HER SQUIRM...Drop just enough so that she knows you really KNOW-feed the pigeons a little...The Lake, for instance...

Mrs. W

Gosh, in a way...yes I want her back, but I think that is the good image I have of her. Then the logical side kicks in and says that she has a lot of issues (drinking, bad communication, immaturity, etc.).

But you know, I do love her and I did marry her and was commited to her.

I guess at this point, I'm not sure. Deep down, yes, I would like to have her in my life. But the last time we talked, she said..."We are just way too different and she 'put up' with our differences for so long".

I really don't think she wants me back, dead honest.

But the thing is, if she says bad things about me like I was a "punk" or an "[censored]"...this shows anger, which I think means that there are deep emotions there. Wouldn't you agree?

Well Paul, to stump her, you first have to get over this CONFLICT AVOIDANCE thing that you have going on...Who taught you that standing up for yourself is mean? It's NOT!!!

What is it that you think is going to sink in Paul? You didn't really say anything on the phone...you alluded to "something"...Right now, she just thinks that you SUSPECT something...to her that means that you are still going to cooperate and be the good quiet little husband who has let her carry on this ADULTEROUS AFFAIR in blissful peace...she is going to be RELIEVED that you didn't confront her...All is still well in fantasyland...You haven't busted the bubble and let even one bit of reality shine in on this monstrosity!

Also, PLEASE give up the delusion that this "possible EA" just started last week...My friend, you are dealing with a FULL BLOWN PHYSICAL AFFAIR that has been going on for quite a while...the EA or maybe even the PA was what led to the separation in the first place...I'd be willing to stake SERIOUS MOOLA on that...Or if you prefer we can toss a coin...Heads I win, Tails you lose...OKAY??? You gettin' this??? Paul, I'm sorry to be so blunt with you, but you DESPERATELY NEED to hear the TRUTH!!!

SHE IS NOT THE WIFE THAT YOU KNOW AND LOVE RIGHT NOW...RIGHT NOW SHE IS A VERY ADDICTED ADDICT...If someone called you and told you that your wife was lying on the floor of a CRACKHOUSE high as a kite, would you go and get her??? That's where she right now Paul!!! What are you gonna do? You married her for better or for worse...this is the WORSE part...

Paul what she is planning and what you are giving her is a very amicable divorce so that she can then go be with the GUTLESS LOW LIFE that she has been BOINKING for God knows how long in what will look to almost everyone on the outside to be a LEGITIMATE relationship...YOU KNOW OTHERWISE...MAKE SURE SHE KNOWS YOU KNOW...and for that matter EVERYONE ELSE KNOWS TOO...That AIN'T MEAN...That's HONEST, IMO...

Btw, EVERYONE here knows that you are NOT a MEAN guy...But they can also see that you seriously NEED to make a trip to OZ and see the WIZARD about some COURAGE!!! YOU CAN DO THIS!!! WILL YOU???

Mrs. W

So Mrs. W,

What do I do now? I didn't email her back. I know I'm bad at confronting this because I don't like the big conflict. You are right and I accept that as hard as it is to hear.

But what do I do know? Have her come over to talk? Email or call her? Then, do I just say..."I know about your affair..." and then what else do I say?

THANK YOU so much for your help!

Paul,

Forgive me for sending you here to GQ...I admit that I knew you'd have to listen to some hard truths....but these are folks who are the trenches of infidelity and this is the stuff that you need to hear right now. Pretty different from the EN board huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

One thing I think you have to get past is the part about your wife not wanting to be married. She's in an affair Paul....of course she doesn't want to be married!! You can't base your marital objectives or your plan right now on the infatuation of a fogged spouse and the fantasy land she lives in right now. Your personal decision about what you want to do about your marriage needs to be made independently from affair dynamics.

I agree that you've not yet done enough to let her know WHAT you know....you've been vague and she's still trying to fish for details. Yes....meet her face to face. Tell her to her simply and confidently....."W, I know about your affair with "John". I've seen pictures. I finally know the truth and you can stop hiding it, avoiding it or shielding me from one piece of information that might have helped me understand. I now understand why all of the energy I tried to put back into this marriage has been futile. It finally all makes perfect sense. Don't even bother denying it....because the only thing that hurts worse than knowing about it....is knowing how smoothly you lied to me all this time and how "played" I feel. Honesty is the mimimum requirement for a friend, much less a wife....so let's just cut to the chase shall we?"

Who else do you think knows about this affair?

Nope...LOL, at the "wouldn't you agree" part...I'm in sales too...I use that one all the time...a lot here, in fact... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, No I wholeheartedly do not agree...I KNOW that she is deep in the FOG...and that these things that she is saying about you are the rationalizations and justifications that she has MANUFACTORED to allow her to wrap her mind around what she knows somewhere deep down is WRONG...I'm no genius Paul, it's just that that's how EVERY story here is...

I have and ALWAYS have had the most non tempermental, easy going, amazing husband in the world...he's a regular poster here too, btw...Deep in my own FOG, I actually refered to him as TOXIC!!! OMG, I would NEVER be able to get across to you in words how hilarious that is...Mr. W has NEVER in his ENTIRE life even yelled...EVER!!! Um, I think that I was practicing a little thing called "transference" as it is CRYSTAL CLEAR now that it was I that was so VERY, VERY TOXIC...

Take a look at this thread started by Longhorn and contributed to by Mr. W and some others...It's a great look at the affair world... For Newly Betrayed Spouses

Mrs. W

P.S. Paul forgive me for leaving you hanging for a bit...I lost my internet connection there for a while <GASP> Anyway, luckily I copied and saved this post before I lost the connection...I will answer your other questions to me in short order...

P.P.S. star*fish...don't be a GQII hater, IMO, this place helps MANY-there are some very cold, hard truths that MUST be addressed and we do that...We are NOT enablers, and are VERY proud of that...Mr. W and I are a success from this very board-which is why we have remained...Also, I have long been copying and pasting a post of yours on fear that I absolutely ADORE...I humbly and finally ask your permission to do so...pretty please?

you misunderstand her hunny

Star* is NOT a GQII hater (LOL)

she SENT him here to get

[color:"red"]EGG*ZAK*LEE[/color]

this cold splash of reality in his face

Pep

Yes, you have her come over and tell her that you know...just like star*fish outlined for you...GREAT EXECUTION...Then be prepared...She will DENY, DENY, DENY...When she finally gets that you know, she will spew VENOM at you...If she yells, you whisper...Remain calm at all costs...She will go on the offensive and blame ALL of this on you...Don't believe a word of it...Don't argue...Just adopt a stare and do some nodding-babble back at her-this is where you stump her-look up one of Orchid's posts and read about "reverse babble" in her signature and USE that-it would be pretty funny if it weren't just so sad...Tell her that you will accept 50% of the blame for the state of the marriage itself...So you know, the affair, IS NOT your fault-THAT's ALL HERS...Don't hammer this, right now, it's not worth even mentioning to her...it will not compute...Just get the cards on the table, come back here and we will help you develop a plan from there...Which WILL include exposure...Alls fair in LOVE and WAR Paul and this is BOTH...The gloves are about to come off...YOU CAN DO THIS!!!

Mrs. W

Ms. W,

On the contrary.....I am NOT at all a GQ hater <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> *gasp* *choke*. I'm a regular poster on this board as well as EN...and I'm the one who SENT Paul here for the REASON that he would get the straight skinny and real help. I typically send everyone who shows up on EN with infidelity issues to this board for the same reason. I applaud you for your efforts. Sorry you were confused.

Phew, Thanks Pepster...I LOVE me some star*fish posts...I was very sad and disillusioned by that...I thought it was ODD...Maybe a MB opposites day that I didn't get the memo on or sumpin'...LOL! Sorry Miss star*fish, Ma'am!

Mrs. W

LOL

Star*

I 'bout spewed diet Coke outta my nose when I read that

Mrs W ... Star*fish, herownself, has yanked many a foggy-head WS & BS back into the real world !!!

BWHaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Pep

PS ~~~ don't tell Mel I was drinking Coke brand ~~~ she'd skin a cat iffin she knew