Recently my "spidey senses" started tingling, I really couldn't tell you why. Today it just got to where I had this certainty that something was wrong. I went to check my ws's cell phone records and found 7 phone calls to ow. They were all in one morning. I really don't know what to do. I called him and he blew up at me that this was totally the wrong time to accuse him (he's out of town on business)and that I had no right to look,,, blah blah blah

I don't know if I have the strength to go through this again. I really don't think I do. I wasn't sure it was her number so I called it, the answering machine picked up and so I hung up, she called my number back - love that caller id - she says he has tried to contact her. Which pack of liars do I believe.

I don't know what to do.

Jenna1

neither

Jenna1,

It was EXACTLY the right time to call him and you had EVERY right to look.....LOOK WHAT YOU FOUND!!

""I don't know what to do.""

Change the locks on the house and don't answer the knock at the door.

kirk

You believe YOU..... as far as what to do... send the jerk packing. He not only contacted her... but he lied to you and then basically said he was mad at you for catching him. Send him packing until you KNOW what you want to do and what you CAN handle. He's a jerk for doing this to you again and he needs a hard dose of reality.

I want that so badly. I can't tell you how much I want to be rid of this nightmare. We have children and I don't want them to be destroyed by my choices.

I'm hoping to tread lightly..I remember well when I had this very same holdout..what about the children?

So..I'm going to ask some pointed questions and leave the answers to you.

What destruction do you believe the children will suffer if you remove yourself from this situation?

Do you believe that WS is a "good" parent/influence on the children at this time?

[keeping in mind that most WSs could hands down win the "Worst Parent in the World" award at any given moment]

Is his behavior respectfull?

Kind?

Self controlled?

Considerate?

Wise?

or..

Is it abusive?

Disrespectfull of marriage in general and their mother in particular?

Disdainfull of his responsibilities as a parent?

Are the children a higher priority than his affair?

If so..how?

Do the children feel secure now?

Do you believe that they are being led towards emotionally mature and healthy relationships in their own lives as a result of this exposure?

I ask this..because as confrontational as it sounds..if that *really* and *truly* is the only reason you would choose not to act at this time..I think it fails the merit test.

It was more correct for me..when I was faced with these questions to say..it may well be damaging for the children in either scenario..but I'm not ready to let go yet.

That allowed me to view myself more accurately.

The BS fog is quite pervasive and skews reality just as surely as the WS fog.

First know your own heart and mind in the harsh light of day.

Noodle: Thank you for your post. My biggest fears are that my kids will pay for my poor choices. I know so many people who wanted their divorce and then regretted it later. I don't want them torn between homes.
Your right, part of it is I'm not ready to let go... in the same breath I want it. I know that no one can make these decisions for me. I feel like I was slapped right back to d-day today and I'm just numb.

I think there is a difference between wanting relief and wanting *out*.

The truth is that our children *do* pay for our choices..always do.

More uncomfortable truth..they pay for them regardless of our best intentions and wishes.

I didn't make the choice for my H to have an A..neither did you..but my children will pay nonetheless..it is outside of my control..something that has been introduced without my consent.

What was helpfull for me..was to have a clear objective and a clear timeline.

I'm not sure what your history is..but it sounds like this is false recovery related..is that the case?

Jenna1,

My WS also broke NC last Friday and I understand the kick in the gut all to well. Just when you start to think that recovery is possible the WS selfishly opens up the wound all over again with no thought of what it is doing to your absolute core. At this point I also am staying the coarse because of our children. However because I believe WW is not truly committed to recovery at this point it is wearing me down. How long you can hold strong and keep yourself intact can only be answered by you.

My thoughts and prayers are with you tonight!

Well, the ow called me this morning. When she called me yesterday I asked her to call me anytime my ws called her. He called her yesterday to tell her that I had found the cell phone records and that I might tell her husband. She told me that I should look closely at his cell phone bill, the reason their would be 7-8-9 phone calls right in a row was that she wouldn't answer his phone calls. She doesn't want to talk with him anymore. She doesn't want to feel the guilt of destroying my world, my children, and her own marriage.

Apparently he has called her to talk off and on in the last year, d-day was three years ago. I beg him to talk with me, he gets angry and shuts down. I know exactly what started it, work has been bad and his self esteem is in the hole so he needs the boost of telling her his problems and her listening. The sad thing is I can almost pin point the times they would talk, he would begin treating me like garbage again. Their go those "spidey senses"

I'm really too numb right now to make any decisions. My first instinct is to tell him he has put protecting others in front of me one too many times. I can't trust him, I don't even like the person he has become, his anger and rages scare me and our children. With all of that, their is still some stupid part of me that isn't ready to let go. That wants to try again. I can't decide if that makes me the stupidest woman in american or something else.

You could ask her to change her number. If she really doesn't want to get the constant reminders and feel that guilt, she might agree to do so.

MIM: I don't think she wants her husband to know about the phone calls. Her husband has a violent temper and has many times said he would kill my ws if he found any more contact. So knowing he could be destroying me, our marriage, and putting himself in danger he still has to talk with her. It wouldn't matter anyway, we live in a small town, finding out her number wouldn't be any real work.
J1

my wh came home from his business trip last night, I feel like I'm going through d-day all over again. I asked questions, he answered them. I went this morning and looked at six months of cell phone bills. Looks like they would talk about once a month. He says that he called her because she would understand what he was going through, that I was still angry about the affair, that I never "forgave" him for what he did. What he probably didn't ever mention to her was that I had three requirements for us to stay together after I found out about the affair. That he and I do the Marriagebuilders program, he quit because it made him feel bad. He said that everything blamed him. Second condition that he get some counseling for his anger, he started it - 2 1/2 years after d-day, and never finished it. Finally that he never speak to or contact ow again. Now he's shown me that all three requirements were broken. And he wonders why I didn't get over it.

I don't want it to end, I want the hurt to end. I'm afraid that for the hurting to finally stop the marriage will have to end.
J1

Well, let her violent H show your H the consequences of his actions. You should never protect a WS from consequences and you should always expose as if your life depends on it, Really it does.

Are you prepared to enforce your boundaries??? If not you never had them. If so, "Git Er Done!"

I had a long talk with wh this morning. After d-day #1, 3 years ago I begged him to stay with me and work on the marriage. I searched the web looking for ways to recover, I did everything I could think of to help us recover from his infidelity. I don't think he ever had buy in because he didn't have to work for it. This week when I found out he has been talking to her, about once a month 10 - 30 minutes for almost a year I realised that he has worn me down. I told him this morning that I don't want a divorce but I won't beg him to stay with me. If he wants that he is going to have to make that decision and do the work, if he doesn't then we can divorce. This time I'm going to keep my self esteem. I don't know if he was surprised or not, but I feel good about my world. If he leaves me then my kids and I will be fine, it will take time, it will take work, and we will have to make a lot of changes in our worlds but I won't ever subject myself to this garbage again.
J1

You need to go into this with a plan - one that does not leave him in charge, as he currently is.

NC violations call for one of two things - divorce or Plan B. You don't really want a divorce yet, so I would recommend Plan B.

He will not change if you just keep letting him hang around with no consequences to his actions. He has been violating your trust for years, and that is huge. It needs to have huge consequences.

Get your ducks in a row, go to Plan B, and let him use the time to think whether he wants his marriage badly enough to do the work that MUST be done if you are to recover properly.

Anything short of that is slow death for you, and robbery of your childrens' chance to grow up in a happy home. A home with a WS is never a happy home, so you need to get rid of the WS one way or the other: either the WS disappears and your husband comes back, or you do not let the WS back into your life.

Definitely tell the OWH, and anyone else you possibly can.

Again, don't leave the choices with your WH. It is not just leave or stay. It is leave, or agree to MC, transparency, accountability, extreme precautions, and all the rest.

I'm glad you are feeling strong. Now take charge! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

YOU begged him to stay and YOU sought out a recovery plan ... he stayed and disrespected you and the marriage in every way - FOR 3 YEARS.

I agree completely with Neak, he hasn't experienced any consequences for his poor choices and ongoing betrayal of you. There's nothing to motivate him to do so.

But moreover, you and your children deserve to be treated better.

Do you want to play Deputy Wife for another 5 - 10 years and repeat at rinse? Plan B his butt.

And I'm so sorry this is happening again to you, Jenna. You don't deserve it.

Jo

I agree with you Neak, how do I plan B though? Should I ask him to move out until he decides what he wants?

Thanks for the thoughts resilient, I really can't believe it's happening to me again but I do feel stronger this time.

J1

Well, I told my wh that I really don't like the idea of "waiting" I tried, it didn't work for me. Basically I feel like he wants to leave but he doesn't have the courage to say it, so he has all of these actions designed to get me to throw his hiney out the door. He said that he loves me and doesn't want a divorce but he feels like all he has ever done is hurt me and make bad decisions and he doesn't want to hurt me anymore.
I think I'm ready to try living in a world with out uncontrollable rage, constant vigilance and the pain of finding out that my "hunches" are correct. If he came to me and said I am willing to do whatever it takes to save our marriage it would be one thing, but he wants me to do whatever it takes to save our marriage and ignore the times when he messes up.
J1