ok, lame excuses are gone.

in order to have time along, DH and I ran an errand together so while in the car we were able to talk. not the ideal way but i was not going to let the evening go by and have him (or me) become too tired by the time the kids go to bed. you can't really put a 12 and 16 yr old in bed by 9pm (or even 10pm) during the summer.

anyway, i immediately started explaining the ENQ. I had also printed out the LBQ but decided to just go with one. I explained to him the goal, to find communicate to your spouse what specific things makes you feel loved. i told him it was simiilar to the book 5 languages of love (which he knows about but has not read). he said about how there should be carryover, that is, if he does something that bothers me, past good actions should offset that. so i told him about the love bank concept, deposits and withdrawals. and that allowed me to also tell him about the LBQ. So then i read him the list of 10 EN.

here is where we started to fall off the track.

next thing i know he is telling me how he is the only person that cares or does anything about planning to make sure we are secure if something "bad" was to occur. so i started to get into defensive mode and tried to cite examples to prove i care. in face he even told me to remind him of things i have done. but then when i told him, he switches to saying that i am defending myself and trying to tell him he is wrong. so i shut up and listen and finally say, you sound angry, but then realized i was making a judgement so i swtiched to how do you feel about this stuff. he said not angry but he just does not want to be the only one that cares. we talked way too long, i kept falling into the defensive mode too much. he talked about how during the worst time of our marriage (i.e. the "A" period of time) he believes neither one of us cared. and he is probably right, this is when i spent way too much money on concerts. this is also when i wanted to become a teacher but then choose to give up that thought for a while and stayed put. to me that was a huge action of caring about the ability to provide for the family but somehow that does not count for much. yes, he acknowledges that was good, but i don't know, he still is left feeling like i don't really care.

at one point i tried to say, maybe the difference in our outward expression of this topic is due to the fact that i came from a family that had so little and i am 10x better off than the way it was when i was growing up. that i don't fear our position, i feel secure. he however does not feel secure, he fears "something" could happen tommorow and we could lose everything.

we managed to not get too mad at each other but we were bost exhaugsted by the end. both thinking this should of gone so much easier.

at somepoint in the evening as i was thinking about the talk, it dawned on me what happened and how to help future talks go easier.

tell me what you think...

instead of sticking to "this is an EN of mine" and "these are specific actions that would make me feel loved/happy" he made a DJ that i didn't care about our finances. which i took offense at because i care a great deal. as wives go i am soooo non-needy. no desires for expensive jewerly, no need for designer clothes, fancy furniture. yes, i have wanted to do some traveling, but i've kept it pretty reasonable. in 20 yrs, we've been on 2 cruises, my favorite "couple" vacation. we have been to disney as a family a few times, also my favorite. early in our marriage we've been to las vegas.

he says HE never SEES me debating to do something and then choose not to do it. well, that does not mean it has not happened, i have just not talked about it. like recently, he was debating to golf somewhere extra expensive, but now he has decided against it. and i saw the whole process. ok, so i guess i need to state my desires to travel more just to have the opportunity to decide against it??

it was frustrating because i do care very much for providiing for the family. i just don't show it the same way. and i am happy to show it in ways that would help him feel more secure. but he has to tell me how.

in hawaii, he saw me choosing to do anything and everything... para-sailing (with DD), check. horse back riding, did it (and i admit it, that one WAS soley for me, DD joined me just for the company as DH did not want to). surfing (with lessons) kids did it. catermeran ride (all 4 of us) did it. yup that was all very expensive, no doubt. but we were on VACATION in hawaii!!! so what did i choose not to do?? how about the helecoptor trip? i didn't even mention it because it was too much. would i have liked to, yes! but since he did not SEE me edit out that one, he concludes i did everything and anything i wanted!!

but here is an area we spent a lot of money on too. food!!! if it were up to me, i would of had our food expenditures way down. but he likes to eat out and he likes to pick anything on the menu, whatever the price. but i do not tell him his choices are irresponsible. he is on vacation in hawaii, he should enjoy the food. i purposely split with my DD a good amount of the time. entress are way too big anyway and it keeps the price down. but i don't advertise to him that is my reason.

right before bed, i told him my thoughts as to how we could make future talks go smoother. that when we discuss the filled out ENQ, we need to work hard at not making DJ (yes, i told him that is what i thought he was doing by stating his conclustion that i don't care) but to just focus on communicating our needs and ways the other can fill those needs. he ended up saying it sounds too hard, too many rules. i said it might seem easier after we practice it bit.

my greatest fear is that i am going to come across as trying to "teach" him too much. i'm tempted to send him articles to read but he hates to read.

i guess i just going to plow thru anyway. whether it improves or makes things worse, time will tell. but i for one am tired of being in the relationship as is. there is so much good info here as to how to have a good relationship. i hope that as we do this, he will continue to see how i have already been living a lot of these principles. i just don't want him to feel i am putting him down.

any thoughts??

i need your help to make sure i don't do stupid things that hamper my ability to have this help our relationship!!

When I realized what was up with this post, I was SOO proud of you!

And then i got a load of why it is so frustrating and daunting for you, that you instinctively put it off.


I really really really think you need a marriage counselor to mediate when you get into the conversations like the one that transpired when you were trying to talk to him about the ENQ.

My first reaction was to note that your husband immediately got defensive and took on the OFFENSE to DJ you (asking you to prove you care about the family finances!)

Give me a FKing break. (OK that was really non-counselor-like of me, but that's my true inner feeling about it.)

The first thing you do is stop defending. DON'T DO THAT. It is pointless, and it is worse than unnecessary.

You to Husband: "What I hear you saying is you feel I don't care about the family finances.

(steer conversation back on track with:)
"Are you saying that Financial Support is one of your Top Emotional Needs?"

If the answer is yes, you begin Policy of Joint Agreement Proceedings: "Let's think of possibilities that will allow me to bring in income (more income?); are you willing to take on more housework in order for me to bring in more money?, you will have to consider whether you financial support is more important to your happiness than domestic support."

The rules are there has to be a happy medium and a final agreement that both of you are enthusiastic about; And All ENs cannot be equal in importance -- otherwise he's playing you;

I believe he's afraid of where this is going, or that he's going to lose power in the relationship even though what's going on isn't working. It's natural to feel that way. Not only that but, Hon, I've had these same pointless arguements and they get everyone absolutely nowhere.



I actually think this is a perfect way to find time alone.


Personally, I think this was your first mistake. Don't get into a pi$$ing contest ever. Instead an appropriate response would be, "and honey, you are so much better at that than I am, I really appreciate how great you are about that and that you are protecting us. Is there something in particular you would like me to do to help you with that?"

His probably response: "You could care more!" (still trying to argue - a passive aggressive response--see Recovery forum for PA thread ASAP)

Still steering away from conflict you reply: "I'll try to do better with that, how EXACTLY SPECIFICALLY would be the best way for me to do that, that would give you a warm fuzzy feeling when I do it?" (not argumentative, just don't allow him to get away with not being specific!! If he can't be specific he loses the arguement as he tried to do with you below, get it? He's playing games with you but you can trump him by staying clear composed and focused on the true task at hand which is completing the EN questionnaire, and forging a new way to communicate that makes you both feel loved, instead of leaving the conversation feeling alienated from each other.)

Also it has to be something that is DO-ABLE. If it's not do-able ask him straight out if he wants you to fail at making him happy, because all you want is to be able to make him happy.


See the games?


I personally think it's fine to "remind" how he sounds, while asking for clarification?


And your response should only be, "I hear you saying that you feel I don't care about the family finances, and I feel that from my point of view, I can trust you to take care of that, so I focus my attention on [domestic support or whatever], and I really do appreciate that I can trust you that way."

The end, Move On. You've already asked for clarity on what to do, you spent way too much time on that issue, and the main reason was so that you couldn't move on to finish the subject. You allowed him to drag a red herring around and derail your intended exercise.


Yeah? I'm working on 25 years in my marriage. What you described right in this paragraph: that's what happens when you don't know what you're doing. Marriage Building Basic Concepts will solve most of these problems.


Not probably right, jump right in there and reinforce, "you're right, honey, I made some terrible mistakes and I'm committed to learning the right way to protect our marriage, and I realize now I need your help with that."


I'm very sorry but no, it doesn't count for much, and that's not a DJ.

Sacrifices only count for the person who makes them!! That's why you must follow the POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT AND ONLY DO THINGS THAT YOU ARE IN ENTHUSIASTIC AGREEMENT with.

I'm trying to recall Dr. Harley's book that he explains this in, I think it is Buyers Renters and Freeloaders, but Pepperband would know for sure, and also be able to explain the concept fully and well.


And why does he expect you to 'be him'.

This is why you need a Marriage Counselor. You do not need to view the world the same as him to be compatible or happy, and he is playing games with himself because he is not happy. This is a red herring, but you cannot tell him so, because it would seem like you don't care about something that is very important to him.


Yeah, because you spent far too much time chasing squirrels when you were supposed to be going for a walk. (dog walking metaphor).


Exactly but since it sounds like he knows nothing about MarriageBuilding, it was your responsibility to steer (as I demonstrated above, and don't get me wrong -- I've been there and done that and it sucked for me too.)


At this point that my hubby is "MB-educated" I just say, "you know honey, that was a disrespectful judgement and I feel differently." (THE END, do not discuss further, just listen if he must vent, but do not engage, or defend, just nod and listen and you can say I hear what you're saying, OR you can follow Frozen1229's Guide to the Mirroring/Validating/Empathizing Technique.) It's in the Recovery Potpourri thread on the Recovery Board and I've bumped it for you. It also has a quick list of the 10 Basic Concepts.


I was SOO low maintenance before my husband's affair, I'm not quite so lm anymore, and he seems to love me more than ever. It's about hitting the target, hon. your lm is a sacrifice he can't appreciate, ala Harley's "Give and Take". (I remembered the right book!!)


I personally think there's a lot of energy being wasted at a basically "no-value-add" behavior. What is the point? So he can win the arguement?

Let him win. Is he the main breadwinner? Then great, he wins. Would he prefer to switch roles and you be the main breadwinner?, because I have yet to see even the very first marriage where equal bread is won on both sides of the equasion. Someone has to be the main financial support.

In our marriage, we POJA'd a strict budget, and I show it's important to me by FOLLOWING IT. Easy. Anything outside the Strict Budget is POJA'd. I don't feel at all restricted, in fact I feel I'm pretty spoiled, and he feels in control and not afraid.


Hang in there, hon, THIS IS HARD TO GET THE HANG OF, but you're actually doing fine for being so new at trying to do it right. I am SO PROUD of you!

thank you so much for your response!!

i need to read it again and probably another time, but i'm home now (i'm working late so i'm going in late) so i cannot/don't want to be on computer.

I decided to copy Frozen's Guide here, in case it gets bumped off Page 1 of Recovery!

COMMUNICATION
Frozen1229's Guide to the MIRRORING/VALIDATING/EMPATHIZING Technique:


This communication technique is comprised of three elements -

mirroring/validating/empathizing

The net effect is that it offers an opportunity for both people to have the experience of being accurately heard, validated as worthwhile human beings, and bonded in empathy.

Mirroring - I am listening so carefully that I can mirror back to you what you've just said.

Validating - I affirm you and your right to have these feelings and hold these opinions.

Empathizing - I can enter into your world and feel what you are feeling.

Mirroring

1.) You recognize that you have something you want to share with your partner (it's best to start with something positive until the process begins to feel more natural, at which time you can use the technique to talk about concerns or frustrations).

2.) Begin by thanking your partner for his/her willingness to talk with you.

3.) State the essence of your message. Make it an "I" message and focus on what you see, think, hear, feel, or desire and then STOP.

4.) Your partner mirrors your message back. Mirroring, in this sense, means responding with an accurate paraphrase. If you find that difficult, you can start by mirroring the exact words. The goal is for your partner to repeat your communication without adding or subtracting anything else. When you are finished, your partner asks if the mirror was accurate.

5.) You say, "Yes, you got it" or "No, not quite." If the mirror was not accurate, you repeat your message once again. Your partner then attempts to mirror you again. Repeat Steps 3-5 until your partner mirrors you accurately.

6.) After confirmation that the mirror is accurate, your partner asks, "Is there more about that?" If so, you say it, and your partner mirrors your additional communication accurately. When the mirror is accurate and you have no more you want to say, your partner then says: "Let me see if I got all of that," and then he offers a summary of all he has heard. The summary reflects the substance of what you said, and avoids the tendency to simply respond to the last words we heard.

Validating

This part can be a little tricky. Most people think of validating as synonymous with agreeing. Whether you agree with what has been said or not doesn't matter. You are supporting the notion that "truth" is subjective, that every person is entitled to his or her own feelings and point of view, and that your perspective doesn't issue forth from the center of the universe.

Your partner has valid reasons for seeing the world as he or she does. It's not for you or anyone else to dismiss or demean these views or even try to change them.

Examples of validating statements:

- I get what you are saying, and you make sense.
- I can see how you would think about it that way.
- I absolutely see what you are saying and why.
It makes sense that you...
- I can see that you have given this plenty
of thought, and I can see what you are saying.
- I didn't know you thought about it like that,
but now that you tell me, I can see how that
makes sense.
- I want to understand you better and what you've
just said helps me enormously.

Empathizing

The empathetic message is:

You are not alone. Although I recognize that we are separate individuals, I can feel at least some of what you are feeling.

To get a sense of how important empathy is, imagine an interchange where your partner accurately mirrors you, and states your right to have your feelings, but is dead to any empathetic understanding of what your experience has been. This encounter would make you feel alien and alone.

Impairment of this capacity causes a bigger gulf between two people than an impairment of language. Two people who speak different languages can still connect through their ability to put themselves in each other's place.

There is no need to be defended or ready for battle. Instead, the sender thinks, "Oh! My partner understands and is sympathetic. I guess I don't need to brace myself for the onslaught or push harder to get my point across. I am being seen and heard. I'm not alone."

Specific ways to express empathy to your partner:

- After listening to you, I am feeling
your (sadness, anger, happiness) and I
am feeling (sad, angry, happy) , too.
- I can imagine that what you've told me makes
you feel (sad, angry, happy). I'm so
glad you told me about it.
- I really feel like I can feel where you're
coming from now. Thank you for sharing this
with me.

This would then involve switching places.

Thanks so much to Frozen for creating this valuable and wonderful guide!

I’m at work now and have caught up enough to be able to finally post.
I really really would love to go that route too but DH will not.

I agree, I need to get much much better at that. Thanks for the suggestions as how to better respond. Although I am the main bread winner. Me making more is not needed. I am about to have my 20th anniversary at the company. I am a computer programmer/tester. DH is a photographer. He used to work for a company but he went freelance about 12 yrs ago. We don’t actually take pay checks from his business on a regular basis. It depends on how things are going for the year. Normally we take some amount out 1-2 times a year. But his business helps indirectly because it pays for the second phone line and for the internet and for his car/gas.
3 yrs ago I tried to make a switch into teaching but my current job pays just too much, switching would be a very large drop. For the year and a ½ leading up to my 40th b-day (which is when I was going to enter a program to get certified) he was going to figure out some way for him to be able to make more but nothing came of it and I really had no choice but to stay put. Well there was the choice of downsizing (we have a lake house) but I just could not see making everyone else sacrifice the lake house for my job. I stand by that decision today. I have however made it very clear, when I turn 50 (just under 7yrs now) I am leaving this job and becoming a teacher. I have recently just figured out how much more to add to the house payments such that it will be paid off at that same time. Also by then DD will be out of college and DS will have 3 yrs to go.
I agree but I also understand, change is scary. I’m ok with that. I don’t mean to make a DJ. I can even totally relate, but I’m finally at a point where I feel I know enough (about time huh???) and I am confident in myself to do this, regardless of the outcome.

I think I’m going to have to be saying that A LOT before we are done. There have been other times when I will ask for specifics about what he would prefer I do and then he will come out with… “you should be able to figure that out”. I will not allow it to end there anymore. I cannot determine what actions would be good for him. End of story, that is his responsibility.
yes yes yes.
I do want to be careful though, I want to be married, not right. Actually I want to be happily married. And that will not happen if this becomes a battle.


agreed and actually I did say straight out “you are right, I was being unreasonable”
I still don’t see why that does not count.

so since I accepted this job 20 yrs ago and since I backed up the decision to have him go freelance (very happily) and since we as a family have come used to my salary, I am trapped here until I die? That does not see fair. He has done the freelance thing, the company is not in the red but it does not make much. He has turned down jobs he does not like, like weddings. Ok, I don’t want him to be miserable (which is what he is when he has done weddings). I absolutely do not want that. But he is a grown man and he really could figure out other means. He does not advertise, he does not seek out more work. The jobs he gets is by word of mouth and it speaks to his talent that he has been able to stay in the black even without searching out work. But him choosing to not do this, ties me in to my current job. and I am not enthusiastically happy about that. And yet that does not seem to count. POJA has steady quo as the default answer.
I will once again say, I do own the decision to back off the change in career path. I will not say I was forced. But I also say, that decision was a decision made out of love of the family and due to caring about providing for the family. I also think it only fair to say, having one of us not at a 9-5 job has been good for the kids.

yes, it makes this line I’m trying to walk very difficult. That is why I intend to post here a lot about it. I don’t want to have this effort go bad. MC is just not something he will do.
why is that?
It’s like computers. No one really notices when nothing bad occurs, but if it goes down, there are complaints galore (I’m not actually in a job that has to support the computer environment, but I see it all the time). You don’t get kudos for avoiding problems, even though you know you have worked hard behind the scenes keeping things going smoothly. You only get yells when something bad happens
we have tried being on a budget, it has never gone well… thankfully we are well off enough to be able to not stick to a strict budget, however, IMHO, following a budget and having day to day behavior in check is the very best way to save for the future. He felt too restricted when we tried having a budget.

but he does not want us on a budget. Which is contradictory to his other stmts. But I gave up that argument a long time ago. Trying to have a budget was just not worth the arguments.

thanks so much for the support. Given I’ve been reading here for so long, I’m not really so new to the material. It really has taken me way too long to do this.


and thank you for posting frozen's guide. i do have comments on that too but that will be for the next post...

Thanks for clarifying your sitch! Well he's not going to make it easy on us is he?

More for myself at this moment I'm going to list some things we may want to look into:

1) Successful POJA (enthusiastic agreement/successful negotiation)

2) Givers Takers and sacrifices

I'm sure there's more but I've got stuff I have to do right now, so I'll be back. Try not to worry.. Baby steps are fine!!

you are right this is a hard one for me. i do think everyone is entitiled to his or her own feelings but point of view... i'm not so sure i can whole heartedly agree.

how do you tell the differnce between a just having "point of view" and commiting a DJ?

my husband concludes i do not care about finances, is that a "point of view" he is entitled to have or is that a DJ?

to me, it sure as heck looks like a DJ. he is making a conclusion based on his life experiences about what I care about.

i'm not supposed to challange that???

update... DH and I talked a bit more today and it was good. i did apologize for not being able to just listen better. he apologized for perhaps judging me too harshly.

i was thinking it might be good to print some articles from the website to give to him to maybe read during his flight. he is going out of town this weekend to San Francisco, that is a good 4 hr plane ride.

i don;t want to try to give him too much, i have to decide what to give him

anyone else have thoughts on how to distinguish between a point of view and a DJ or about anything else from this thread??

i really want this to help our relationship. thanks.

This is a major reason you are getting stuck on a conflict merry-go-round.


You cannot control someone else's feelings.

As long as you try you are going to be in a losing game and it won't be fun.

You can choose to react to his feeling by challenging and moving to conflict in your marriage, or you can choose to be understanding that he feels that way and let it go.

If you can't let it go you need to really look at your control issues.

So what? if he thinks -fill in the blank-

to try to convince him he's wrong is a DJ in itself.


No. Why would you? to create more conflict? cuz that's what you'll accomplish. Your goal is to resolve conflict, and arguing over whose point of view is "RIGHT" will never get you there.

believing i don't care about finances is not a feeling.

"I feel you do not care about finances"

in retrovaille we were told, if you can replace the word feel with the word think, you are not communicating a feeling.

"i think you do not care about finances"

but

"i feel sad" does not work... "i think sad" is not a valid stmt. so i feel sad is stating a feeling. i feel you don't care, is really stating an opinion. one which judges me.

so you say, accept that is how he feels (and thinks) and let it go. what impression does that leave him with? that i agree, that i disagree or is that irrelavant?

i can say i understand that is what you believe, and i understand that makes you feel (fill in the blank). but i certainly cannot say i believe the same thing. and that is what he is looking for, for me to agree. so we can resolve the problem (i.e. i can assure him i will start caring more).

well i already do care, so how does that work??

see why i am struggling with this.

i don't want to argue, i don't want conflict, but i also don't want to be beat up and be held accountable for doing things i have not done. (or in this case, not doing what i really do do).

Well that's sort of invalidating then, isn't it.

So once you've invalidated his thought processes, how do you get back to intimacy?

Kind of a long shot.

From My Recovery Potpourri thread:

10 Basic Concepts


1. ALWAYS use Radical Honesty in every communication with your spouse.
2. Create Love Bank Wealth
3. Avoid Love Busters
3. Eliminate Disrespectful Judgements (even from your thoughts)
4. Eliminate Annoying Behaviors and Modify unhealthy Instincts & Habits
5. Plan daily and weekly time for Undivided Attention
6. Learn to compromise in such a way that both partners feel are win/win situations, to keep each other's Givers and Takers satisfied and in check.
7. Learn the three states of mind in marriage, and how to navigate through them: Intimacy, Conflict, & Withdrawal. Practice navigating back to Intimacy quickly and successfully. The goal is to spend most of the time in intimacy, less time in conflict, and the least time in withdrawal.
8. Use The Policy of Joint Agreement to
9. learn the Art of Successful Negotiation
10. Fill your partners EN's to convince your partner every day that they are valued by you, that you are cared for by them. Filling ENs is a careful and choreographed plan for nurturing. Good conversation where you feel heard and validated by your partner, and you can share your true and honest feelings with your partner without them feeling judged is one part of the large subject of filling ENs.

BOTH THE BETRAYER AND THE BETRAYED IN RECOVERY MUST COMMIT FULLY TO FOLLOWING THE 10 BASIC CONCEPTS TO BENEFIT FROM A HABITUALLY SOUND AND HEALTHY MARRIAGE AND RECOVERY. IT IS NOTHING LESS THAN THE FASTEST EASIEST APPROACH TO RECOVERY. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

Hi FL,

sorry you are having a hard time here.



Yes, he has DJ'd, because he has made a judgement about you as a person instead of discussing himself and his feeling ("I am angry because I would like us to save more" etc).

BUT... I think the point that 10swords is making is the most important.

So what if he has DJ'd? What are you trying to achieve? It really is not going to be constructive to point out AT THIS TIME to him that he has DJ'd, because it seems that he is already harbouring bad feelings about something, feelings that need to be aired.

If you want to resolve the issue, the best solution is to not be defensive, to reflect and to try active listening. If you like, you could try steering the conversation back on track by reflecting it back in a way that is more accurate. What about asking

"I hear you saying you are not happy with the way I spend our money. Is that right?"

and if he says something like..."Yes, you don't look after our finances...."

then you could try:

"So, you're really annoyed about my spending?"

etc, until he has had it out and he has nothing more to say on the subject.

Then you could try:

"What aspects in particular would you like to see changed?" ... and really POJA the issue.

He may have DJ'd... but it only takes one partner to steer things back on track, and in this conversation, the only person who can do that is YOU. That is because he is upset and not acting at his best.

If you leave it for a few days and you still feel upset by the DJ, why not try a separate conversation then, about that specifically, and not about finances?

I'm having a medical procedure tomorrow and may not be able to post so I will continue on this thread. I'm sure it's probably frustrating to you, but you know what?

You can only control yourself.

Yes, your husband could still be lovebusting and DJing long after you have committed to living the Basic Concepts but in some cases the best way to get through to a person is to model the good behavior.

You may have to concede that right now, he doesn't know how NOT to DJ.

So what are you going to do about it?

What, truly, can you do about it?

You can get mad, but what good will that do you?

You have to accept that this is where he is, right now. But he's not the one in charge of introducing the Basic Concepts as a lifestyle into your marriage. If you plan to wait for him to 'get it' and adopt the basic concepts, you could be in for a very long wait.

There is a point where you start to point out that you perceive he has made a DJ. But you have to do it with out DJing, yourself, when you point it out.

That is a fine line to walk and I don't recommend starting out with that.

The first thing you want to do is get control of your own emotions and reactions when you are in conflict with your spouse. And in the beginning that requires acknowledging that he will be making a lot of DJs and your best bet is just to acknowledge that you understand he feels that way.

Your acknowledging his right to his perceptions is not giving credibility to them, (though he may think it does in the beginning).

However you will never say, "I agree with that assessment". and if asked you will clarify that your perception is differnt from his. No further discussion necessary. You do not have to see the world the same to live in harmony.

Establishing harmony will spill over into all areas of your marriage. You will gain COOPERATION. At some magical moment you will find yourselves actually seeing the world the same again. Give it time.

Thanks Smur!!




Exactly, this is something to do in a calm environment where intimacy is established.

Thanks again for helping!!

I just want to add some thoughts on this:

I'm a good talker and tend to have a lot to say. My husband is a good talker when he's feeling confident but he feels intimidated by his inability to compete at my level of ability to communicate/facility with language (we learned that in MC).

So in our case the more I make an effort to give him the floor, the better. So I try to keep my thoughts out of it as much as possible. I offer the minimal of reactions, because he often feels judged, and the more I talk the more frustrated he can get that I'm using my ability with language to make excuses or win an argument.

In our case it's best for me to acknowledge that I understand that he feels a certain way or has a certain perception, I may acknowledge that for me it feels different or I'm percieving it differently, but reassure him that I believe he has the right to his feelings and perceptions without me attempting to change him/them.

And then quickly as possible give him back the floor. I mean a pointed question on the same subject is fine, but do not digress off HIS subject with a question, because that can become a device to derail a conversation.

YKWIM?

this is going to be quick, i have to get back to work, too many bugs in the version i tested last night, now i have to work with developers to get fixes ASAP.

i only stopped posting last night because i got finished and i was so tired i wanted to get home and get some sleep.

first, thanks to all.

second, keep in mind, although i continued the conversation here, DH and I did not remain upset with each other. as i stated in my other thread, i did appologize for not listening better and he even apologized for sounding so harsh.

finally, all this stuff has sunk in. you are right everyone does have a right to their point of view too.

i could of easily heard in my head...

"i feel concerned that in my perspective you do not care about the finaincial well-being of our family"

those words "follow the rules" just fine, don't they.

like bob, nothing is a DJ if presented respectfully and there is nothing keeping me from remembering that DH is a very awesome guy whom i love and from having faith that he really does not mean to be mean, he just choose poor words.

i can choose to hear those words in a more diplomatic way so that I don't lose the opportunity of getting to understand him better. he was sharing with me and that is always good.

i apologized yesterday because i love him. that is not to say i didn't mean my apology, i did. but i was still concerned that we are so bad at communicating!! so i brought that here.

now i think i have learned a bit more so that i can feel confident we will get the hang of it.

thanks!!!

operation ENQ continues!!!