My daughter, who is going into high school, does not want to go out to dinner with her father anymore (He has only allowed her to visit him once in the last year, so that isn't an issue). Her decision was prompted by his yelling at her and telling her to shut up, but now she is furious at him in general. He called me up and started yelling at me, telling me I had to force her to go to dinner with him, physically if necessary. She is almost undoubtedly stronger than I am, and considerably more stubborn. I am not about to try to physically force her to do anything. I know from personal experience that if she doesn't want to do something, she is perfectly willing to endure very lengthy periods of grounding, quite possibly until she turns 18 if she had to. I suggested he apologize, and he said, "Fine, but first she has to go out to dinner with me so we can talk and I can tell her how rude she was." Somehow I don't think that would be helpful. I know he is frightened that he is going to lose her like he lost our older two kids (now adults) when he left - neither of whom have anything to do with him.

He threatened to force her and me into family counseling - I am not quite sure how he'd force her to go, and I also know from past experience that she is perfectly willing to completely refuse to talk if she doesn't want to.

Is there anything he can actually do? I assume he can't legally drag her out of the house. I can't convince her to compromise, and now she is mad at me because I want her to.

She is, by the way, a mostly A student in advanced courses who always gets comments like "a pleasure to have in class."

Sorry to hear that your DD and X are having a hard time.

I don't know how it is in your state, but where I live, when the child becomes 14, his/her opinion is taken into consideration when determining if he/she will live with mom or dad. I can only assume a similar consideration would be made when it comes to visitation? Do you have any legal folks there you can ask?

It is similar in my state, but I am not sure about visitation, such as it is.

Why are you even talking to him? DD should tell him "Dad, I don't want to go" and you should stay out of it.

If ExH wants to force it, he can talk to a lawyer and have a court hearing. Would it get to that point? No, of course not. He's just being a bully. Ignore him, and tell her to do whatever she wants. She's more than old enough to determine her visitation, and any lawyer would tell him that.

I happened to be the one who picked up the phone. I did give the phone to her, and she did tell him she didn't want to go - rather forcefully. Yeah, he might go to a lawyer - maybe not his previous one, since she told me (who knows if you can ever believe the other lawyer) that she had already advised him to stop wasting his money on trivial legal action. It isn't his money he's spending, so why should he care? He's forced counseling before - the last time he walked out when the counselor didn't jump to agree with everything he said.

Tell her if she doesn't want to be with her dad to research out the legal code that says she doesn't have to given her age... That if her dad sues, she's going to have to defend herself, so she better know the laws.

That way, you're not putting words in her mouth, and you might be embarking her on a brand new career.

Your daughter may be old enough to opt out of 'visitation' with her father however, that is not for her to decide at this point. Go back to court, present the facts and let the judge decide. You can probably expect family counseling.

Until then, (barring abuse of any sort) I would encourage (not force) visitation even if she is mad at dad. They can't get unmad at each other if they don't see each other.

Considering your situation, I would encourage going back to court for the sake of your child. If the court decides that she can decide for herself, then it may free you both of her fathers constant threats.

I absolutely can not afford to hire a lawyer, but her father (or his wife) can. I don't know what good family counseling would do - her father walked out of counseling last time, counseling that he requested. I have encouraged visitation, and she absolutely refuses to back down. Counseling would be useless - she has pretty much refused to speak to two counselors in the past (her father insisted that she leave the one counselor she liked, who has since retired). Both of the counselors to whom she said virtually nothing eventually gave up.

Nellie, you can't just do nothing and expect it to fix itself. Either put the two of them together so they can butt heads or take your daughter before the judge and request that she be given the option of personal choice. When you do nothing, you lose the right to complain.

Your daughter is at an age that still requires parental guidance. You cannot turn her loose yet regardless of how stubborn she can be.

Her counselors may have given up on her but her parents should never give up on her. You and her father actually get to decide what SHE gets to decide.

If you give your daughter too much control at this early age she will most assuredly head down the wrong paths.

I give my daughter plenty of parental guidance - I am sure my kids would say more than enough. I can't force her to talk to her father, and so far I haven't been able to convince her to. I suspect she will eventually. However, one of her sisters has not said a word to him in seven years, and another has barely talked to him, and both have grown into wonderful, successful adults. They never used drugs, did not drink until they were of legal age and even now rarely do, and are reliable and honest. I couldn't be more pleased at how they turned out. There is never a reason to "control" what one's children think or say, or to whom they say it. My kids have always felt free to tell me what they think, even if what they are thinking is that I am an idiot.

KaylaAndy,

I can't quite see her as a lawyer, but the research skills would always come in handy.

I liked KaylaAndy's suggestion. Let her do the legwork.
By letting her walk away, you are not aiding her "conflict avoidance (CA)" skills. I I can't think of a good answer here. I don't know what responsibility we have to our X's in this sitch. I just know I married a CA, and really try hard to help my kids understand that things need to be resolved.
It's a shame about her counselor. I believe finding a great one is hard, and having a good one can really help.

If a parent suspects Parental Alienation Syndrome on the part of the other parent, they can not only force visitation, but quite likely, overturn custody and put the custodial parent into a supervised visitation situation.

At this point, I can't imagine anyone would bother pursuing that option.

Well, unless you have an RO that restricts him from entering the house, then yes, he could legally (physically) remove her from the house, spank her bottom if he so chooses and drive away with her. Provided it is his 'visitation' time.

If it's not, then the most he could do is create a public scene in front of all your neighbors. Tell him to go away until it's his visitation time and then refer to the above paragraph.

I don't think she is a conflict avoider, at least not generally. After the way she lit into her father the other day, it would be hard to accuse her of that.

I don't think he would actually try to drag her out of the house, nor do I think he would succeed if he tried.

I suggested he apologize to her. I don't know if it will help, but it can't hurt.