Wow! That would make a great bumper sticker!

Piojos:

I have read the thread, this is my take:

Early on all relationships are associated with some level of insecurity where the couple feels the deal is not 100% solid. This hindrance creates a greater level of obsession about the relationship. In addition, early on the couple is not together 24/7. This absence from each other keeps everything fresh. That is why the ingredients for passion seem to almost always be present in an affair whereas this is not the case with a stable relationship with no outside threats and complete stability. This will create a calm less passionate environment.

Quite often WWs think that SF with OM is better because OM has technique or great abilities. However, in reality OM seems better because sex is in the head (between the ears). The best example of this is phone sex where WW has an explosive orgasm. Obviously this has nothing to do with technique-----it is all between the ears.

We cannot compete with the thrill of an insecure unstable secret relationship where the meetings are sporadic and all the mundane things are filtered out. However, we know this phase is always transient and tends to fall apart when the affairees try to live with each other 24/7 and there are no more secrets. Virtually all of these relationships fail in the open. I believe I once explained this to Gemela in great detail. I know for a fact that my wife Myrta understands this concept very well. One instant after d-day Myrta knew by intuition that her OM was only good as a secret-------not in the open. This was a plus for our recovery.

This brings me to what is really important about the WW:

If the WW feels the OM is superior to the H (whether right or wrong) she will have a great deal of difficulty leaving the affair behind.

If the WW realizes OM cannot compete with her H she will give up OM in a relatively easy manner and the withdrawal will be short.

In your case I worry about the youth of OM. You cannot compete with that. In my case OM was only three years younger than me and his only advantage was that of providing endless admiration. I can compete with that-------if I give Myrta the attention she needs she will not miss OM at all.

But, don't give up, I suspect that Gemela also wanted attention and admiration and the fact that OM was young was just a coincidence. The overwhelming majority of men and women that have affairs are attention and admiration seekers. IMHO, that tends to be the No. 1 EN for them. Nothing wrong with that---we all like attention.

Post D-day some WS want to fix marriage whereas others want out. Obviously the latter is an uphill battle. Myrta and I seem to be working well together because we both want the marriage. If the spouses are less than 100% committed, there is trouble. Even then------ we still have problems. I often wonder about my outburst of anger several weeks ago-----maybe I have something similar top Post traumatic Stress Disorder where one is triggered all the way back to d-day.

I cannot tell you if letting Gemela go back to Mexico is the right or the wrong thing. What does Gemela wants? What do you want?

Have you asked Gemela is she wants to fix the marriage?

Pio - I understand what you are saying. The phone may be coming through the broadcast - happens here too.

Piojitos,

I hope you don't mind me dropping in on your thread. Just thought I'd offer another opinion to the mix. My Ex was on the fence and didn't know whether he was coming or going. I don't think it has to do with love so much. As Mrs. W said, they are seeking happiness from outside when it is they who need to change inside.

So, along comes someone who makes them feel alive again - young, witty, attractive. The world is my oyster! They erroneously come to the conclusion that it is their destiny to be with this person. However, it is a huge gamble, a risk. There are no guarantees. It is a fantasy that has not been exposed to the real world yet. And they will never truly know that until they leap off that cliff without their spouse. They just can't crash while they still have us in their lives. It's not love that keeps them chasing the other person. It's the cord that connects them to us that keeps them chasing.

P.S. I do enjoy your sense of humor and the banter with your boy toy Todd!

First of all thanks to everyone for posting while I was getting the first good night's sleep I have had in 5 days. That was not related to the A BTW - just an unfortunate set of consecutive coincidences. Done and dusted.

Stanley,

I appreciate the dissection. I don't disagree. I don't know if Mexico will be good or bad. I think I need the "break" now. Let gemela face her family and maybe see things in a different perspective. I don't know. All I know is if we keep going the way we are, I will soon be dividing up the house with tape and fighting for more square footage. As far as competing with the OM, I think I am doing much better in gemela's mind. I lift weights daily. That is a subtle thing for her but I can see she notices. It gets back to ToddAC's original advice that latin women like to see strength. I started lifting again for no other reason than that. I have gained 20 lbs and still not increased my waist size. In fact it went down. I am working on adding another 10-15 and I will be where I personally want to be.

I guess that, up to this point, gemela has had no real problems as a result of her A. My feeling is that she has it all and has had no need to give up anything. I did a great Plan A (regardless of what cc46 says). Gemela is living the country club life. She has the admiration of all who know her. She has friends and socializes. She has not seen ant real negative consequences of having an A, IMO. I have done all this to allow her time for withdrawal and time to decide if she wants to commit to the marriage. IMO she has not chosen to commit. If I ask her if she wants to fix the marriage, the way she will put it is that she thinks things are getting better and that, in time, she hopes we can put all this behind us. In other words, let's just forget the A ever happened.

For me, her going to Mexico will be the first real negative consequence of her having the A. I am not intending it as a punishment. I would prefer she stayed and made a commitment. Even a continued Plan A I could deal with. But riding instructors, lasagna, etc. remind me that she has zero respect for my feelings. I don't know how long she will be in Mexico. That is mostly her choice. I think she probably does need to spend some time with MIL and SIL. We have to do something besides what we are currently doing.

I do think she is trying to do some subtle things. She is actively trying to get the MC scheduled. That was one of my requirements. If we can get some time in MC before the trip, that could change things significantly. I am leaving that door open. But it will be up to her. If we do go to MC, it will be because she arranged it. I am not going to do it for her. If she wants to stay here, is she willing to put out any effort to accomplish that?

I woke her up at 4:30 AM and we worked out together. That was her request. She says she prefers to work out with me rather than alone. One more hour together.

BK,

Yes that had occurred to me but that is the problem. I can't know for sure - and it bothers me. It brings back the paranoia. It is a trigger. My instinct is that she doesn't really have a phone. I have not made much effort to look for one. But I have looked a little. It bothers me that I looked a little. It bothers me for several reasons:

1) It reminds me I can't trust WW.
2) If I am giving up on the M, why do I care?
3) I am still obsessing.
4) Why am I trying to control her behavior?

This is probably the most troubling of anything that has happened in weeks.

Shattered05,

I do think it has been advantageous for WW to maintain the fantasy in her mind. There is no benefit her psychologically, spiritually or emotionally to let it die. The fantasy makes her happy. To admit it was wrong goes against her very strong religious faith. Better to believe it was right. Emotionally, killing the fantasy destroys her hope. Right now she has everything and has had to sacrifice nothing. Even the OM being gone is beneficial to her. If he were here, the fantasy could not survive.

Right now my plans are set based on the environment I find myself in. let's see what the MC says (if we go). That may change a lot of things. I hope she has better advice than eating Thai food. I have never asked her what her qualifications are but I am going to if I see her again. I don't see how not being allowed to talk about the A is a good thing - especially one year after the fact.

"boy toy Todd". I really wish I had never confessed to the EA with him. Fortunately we have been able to keep it under the MB radar screen. Besides - he is cheating on me with 20 girls from another infidelity forum. Personally I can't see how he does it. Women! And I was sure he was my soulmate!

If I couldn't laugh about all this, I would likely be crying instead. Keeping a sense of humor keeps me sane (or as reasonably close as I'll ever be).

I have been trying for days to figure out how to put an HTML table into a post without any success.

Over the past few weeks I have been putting together a spreadsheet of advantages of housemaid versus WW. I am including it here in case it might helps some other BH in his decision process. Since I can't do the table, I will present it as best i can:

Description:
Toilet seat position doesn't matter - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
Can pee in the shower - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
Can sleep with the TV on - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
Clothes are washed - [color:"red"] Even [/color]
Clothes are ironed - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
Garden is clean - [color:"red"] Even [/color]
Breakfast gets prepared - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
Dress kids for school - [color:"red"] Even [/color]
Makes kids lunch - [color:"red"] Even [/color]
Babysit kids in afternoon - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
Babysit kids at night or on weekend - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
Sex - [color:"red"] Advantage WW[/color]
Conversation - [color:"red"] Advantage WW[/color]
Companionship - [color:"red"] Neither[/color]
Clean house - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
Wash dishes (we have a machine) - [color:"red"] Even [/color]
More economical - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
I can walk around house partially clothed - [color:"red"] Advantage WW[/color]
More closet space - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
I'll be really lonely - [color:"red"] Even [/color]


I will keep this updated as I think it is really important.

More advantages:

Go 3 or 4 days without a shower - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
Save on deodorant - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
Change underwear once a week - [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]
No clogged sink or shower drains- [color:"red"] Advantage maid[/color]

I have been trying to go to

www.friendsofadriansmarriage.net

and believe I've messed it up.

What was it again?

LA

"Can pee in the shower - Advantage maid"

Maid might find this one a bit icky <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

"Go 3 or 4 days without a shower - Advantage maid"

People you have to deal with in everyday life might find this one a bit icky

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I learned the peeing in the shower from WW.

As far as bathing every day, I live in Saudi Arabia. I will fit right in. I used to think BO was BO. You know how the eskimos supposedly have 200 words for snow? We have almost that many for BO here. I never knew there were so many different kinds. What is really bad is that even the elevators here have BO. And garlic being a staple of the diet for many of the nationalities represented here just gives it that extra special boquet.

I often think it odd that women of certain cultures wear such beautiful clothing--shimmering fabric, graceful folds, gorgeous stitching--and yet don't seem to take any notice whatsoever that their smell is at complete odds with their appearance.

t&l

Eeeew.

Does anyone else pee in the sea when they're swimming?

If they don't I will delete this post immediately. *blush*

Our first housemaid in Dubai was named Chandy. She was Sri Lankan. We could not let her go anywhere in the car with us. We tried but it was like pepper spray to the eyes. Poor girl. One day WW made her wash her clothes in kerosene to try to get the smell out. Didn't work. (Kerosene was a new one for me BTW). Finally one day she asked the maid if she used deodorant. Maid said no. We started buying her deodorant.

The vast majority of the world's population is not concerned about BO. We the minority are offended by it.

Tell me about it. They always sit next to me on planes.

Our students don't seem overly concerned by it either.

I have peed in my wet suit. I have thrown up in my regulator. Peeing in the wet suit is quit pleasant once you get over the mental barrier.

I think kerosene would make it worse.

"Peeing in the wet suit is quite pleasant once you get over the mental barrier"

and the coldness once the warmness went

They, of course, smell like we're meant to.

We're the ones with the hang up

And more power to us, that's what I say! I'd rather have a patient whose natural, um, scent is disguised, eliminated, or at least tamped down, than somebody who insists on au naturel!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

t&l

LMAO T&l. You must see it all.