I am way ahead on that one. Our agreement is that when she let's me know that she has made a decision that she will definitely not be coming back, I will send her things to wherever she wants them. We don't have a time limit on that. Her going to Mexico is to give her time to make a decision as to what she wants for her life. I have told her my preference would be for her to choose to come back but only if she is willing to give it her all for the marriage. I am in no hurry one way or the other. It is not like I am going to start looking for a new Mrs. WW.

I don't expect that she will give me her decision within a couple of months but it doesn't matter if she does. I will ship the things but I will not pay the importation duties and especially if the things are going to Mexico. I have already had several experiences shipping things to Mexico and they were all bad. Once she bought a pair of shoes for her sister in the USA that cost about $50 and I paid another $30 to ship them via DHL so that they would most likely not be stolen. [Regular mail is not that reliable] The importation duty was $250 - AND SIL REFUSED TO PAY IT!

When we sent her Mom back to Mexico from Muscat, we sent a couple of boxes of her clothes via air freight. The importation duty was several thousand dollars. The clothes weren't worth that and could have been replaced for less. Eventually they paid a bribe to clear the goods for much less but it took months.

I don't know if it is still in place or not but Mexico has or had a 500% import duty on goods from China. Since almost everything is made in China any more, well...

Pio,

How long are you willing to wait for WW's decision? Have you established a time limit?

Not really a time limit. I have thought more in terms of a time minimum. There may be some practical limitations on how much time I could wait. I think that I could easily go two years without being forced to do something else (like lose my job, etc.) If WW runs off to OM, then that means that she made her choice. I will never let her come back if she goes with him. She knows that.

I seriously doubt I will ever be interested in a woman again. I was happily married for 8 years to a woman who says she never loved me. I am easily fooled I guess. I was betrayed by the one person I trusted the most. How can I ever think of getting involved with another woman? I will spend my time and my life on my DDs. They need me.

Two years is a long time my friend.

I understand your comment about not ever trusting another woman again. Completely understand.

Well two years is more a practical limit at which I could start to have problems with my visa here in Saudi or, more specifically, the visas of the DDs. I have a few options available to me but will wait and see what the best choice is at that time.

To be quite honest, I have told WW that, although I want her to come back, I don't believe she will. I am taking the mindset that once she goes to Mexico, that is pretty much it so whether it is 2 years or 200 years, I can't see that it makes much difference. I am not going to sit around hoping and praying that she comes back. I am going to get on with my life as best as I can. Her choices are hers alone.

Pio, I only know that I couldn't have done it. Separated for any length of time at all. Every time Rob even MENTIONED separation I just fell apart.

How is she REALLY about all this? Is she as calm as you write?

This is still the only way for you and her I think. It's very sad but you sound so resolute. I admire your courage. Seriously, not being smart, it takes a great deal of courage to do what you're doing.

I pray she will see the light.

My feeling is that it is still not real to her (or me for that matter) but something has to give. We cannot continue like we are. This A is just not going to go away as a bad memory with time. Yes she is calm. I don't know why. We don't discuss it. I draw the line at talking about the separation or what her plans are because I recognize that what she does is none of my business. Her life is hers to live as she sees fit. If she wants to really work on the M, I am totally willing to do that. I just haven't seen any signs of it.

I am so sorry for her. I am more sorry for the DDs. I don't want anyone to suffer but the affair was her choice. I have given her every opportunity for almost a year to return to the M but she won't. These are her choices and the consequences of those choices. Lately the A has been hurting me very much. I am not showing her any of that. She is the one who has been pushing for a "break" for some time. If she would be willing to talk about things, maybe this would be a bit easier. I really do think she wants some time alone to get her thoughts together. How much time? No idea.

Am I resolute? No, this is tearing me apart but I just can't face lemonman's abuse if I change now - mainly because he would be right.

Have you ever seen videos of people being led to the block here in Saudi for capital punishment? They go so quietly. The trick is they bleed them first. They have no energy to fight.

I have just been bleeding from my broken heart so long and WW refuses to help me let it heal. I have no energy left to fight.

This really is your only choice then. Do you think you WILL have some sort of heart to heart before she goes?

I still think she will come to some sort of realisation while she's away - I mean the right sort of realisation. If she doesn't she's a very silly woman. To be honest, the thought of a woman on the verge of separation buying gold bracelets at your expense did not endear her to me.

I don't know what else to say. I still think it takes courage to do what you're doing.

Anyway, I have to go. Take care.

For some reason the word "courage" seems strange. There is only one good option here and it is not my choice to make.



Forgot to mention. I found out last night that the house maid is NOT from Ethiopia - She is from Eritrea! I feel like this is a setup! OTOH maybe she was orignally from Ethiopia and then became like Tom Hanks in "The Terminal" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

ToddAC,

I am headed to Bahrain for three days (business trip) and am taking WW and DDs along. We should be back on Friday. I doubt I'll check email while there.

Hey Pio,

Just so you know, I will prolly be out of loop for a few weeks when you return.

Have fun.

I dont want to bother you, but, you sound like a victim here... even Im a WS I want to be objective in this, and even and A is a choice I think building a marriage on proof of an affair is an issue for both (you and your wife).

Sorry my english is awful..

I think main reason, that is keeping away from you wife (emotional way) is another thing that you havent worked yet....

You sound so hurt, and angry, you always refers to your wife as a WS, (even we are here in MB) it has been a long time since D day. Do you think is normal? I think you havent forgive her. I know that she is a WS and called him wife is not changing the fact that she was a WS.. but I think you are still hurt, and maybe more hurt than days before D day.. becuase you are convinced that she havent done And even you say yes you havent put all you effort in doing you M work.

For my own experience is so difficult to put all your love in someone that apparently is not giving you back any love as a response, or any commitment. I dont know your wife version of all this. And to make a marriage works just for one spouse is not easy, no matter if you are the BS or WS, and alone, is worst, we should ask for help.

You always let us clear that is "ws choice", as she has the solution... even she returns from her trip convinced that she wants to stay with you, I think the problem is not solved... is not just her....

In this year past from D day,
Can you tell me what had you done in order to help you M?
Why arent you in counseling? even she doesnt want help, you need it...its easy to justify ourselves..
How much have you changed for yourself?
Have you know all her needs? Have you filled all?

You sounds angry, and worry about money also,.... are you a "avaro" man? sorry I dont know the word in english, when someone doesnt want to spent lot money even if he has enough.... I know its a big effort to earn money, a lot of sacrifice, and is not funny is someone spent it withour reason, but I dont understand why if you said that you are not fighting with your wife..why you are not going to pay to send her things, if she decided not to continue in your marriage.. for me thats is a sign that you are still mad, with her,, and even all you are not been her friend....

Do you know why she married with you? Do you know why she accept to live so far not just from her relatives, also from her country, and customs?

I think you are trying to manipulate her with money stuffs... and how do you say in english? this steanks, esto apesta....

tell me, how much piojitos man have changed in order to fill his wife needs? do you know what things she hates from you? have you tried to avoid to do that?

I have understood that we havent to expect to change anyone, and we need to teach with our example, and if you want commitment you should show this first in you M... if you want to be loved, you should love first.... Once I read, dont ask yourself "why she doesnt love me?" ask yourself, "have I been an adorable person?" or something like that, the idea is to understand that we should put all our effort for be the best spouse, and sometimes this works better, that give just expecting something as a result of our giving...

You can buy her expensive presents, and this is not important, you cant buy her heart, and if you dont want to buy her an expensive present now, DONT DO IT!!! as a mexican woman I prefer to receive any present but a sincere present, nor an expensive one withoout love, or not sincere... eso APESTA.. sorry, Im a romantic woman. (or silly if you want to call it that way)

I know you can be a happy man with time and even without your wife, if you decided to get divorce, anyone here is indispensable..... but you cant said "it was her decision..." or my "M was over because she had an A... or she was a WS".

Why did you get in love with her? because of her youngth (juventud), her beauty, her thoughts, her sense of humor, her way of made love, ,,,, why, you tell me?

Once a MB member tell me that even we want to give up to our M we need to be sincere with ourselves and ask us if he have done everything is on our hands... not because or sons , because us, and because we want to spent our life with our spouse.... This member told me "you should try everything, and not to decide anything if you are mad"

I dont know hole case,,, but I think age differences is having a role here... my grandfather was 20 years old older than my grandmother and even my mother told me thatn when she was in school (8 -12 years old) she said that she was embarrassed sometimes because her friends thought her father was her grandfather.. she with time learned that people can say anything, but main thing was that her parents were in love, and their marriage last all their lifes.... I think even they have their problems they were happy...

When did you stop to be her best friend? do you remember why?

Hi Tear,

I just wanted to let you know that your English is excellent. I have no trouble understanding you at all.

Pio should be back tomorrow I believe.

Take care.

Thank you ToddAC... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You might want to rewrite that in Spanish because I really don't understand what you are trying to say. I think trying to rebuild a marriage after an affair is an issue for almost everyone. It is a little difficult to say "oops - little mistake. let's just let bygones be bygones.". Not to mention the fact that I have a very painful reminder (the HPV). Just a tad difficult to forget it ever happened. I have been working hard (IMO) to try to keep the marriage going for almost a year with little or no help from gemela. It is a bit difficult to continue to love someone when they continue to not love you. I was thinking this morning that now she is telling me that she loves me but then I remembered that she used to tell me that all the while she was having her affair. So it really has little meaning when she says it.

I don't remember where I said I have not been putting all my effort into the M. I feel it is quite the opposite. I have suffered and endured every pain and humiliation to try to keep us alive. I see very little effort on gemela's part.

I agree that it takes us both to make the marriage work. But until she begins to make some serious effort, I am no longer interested in trying. If she ever does come back to our home, I agree that it will take a huge effort on my part. I hope I am strong enough for that. First and foremost is that (and I have told gemela this) I don't believe she ever will come back. I believe she will wait a few weeks in Mexico and then decide to call OM again. Whatever happens after that is unimportant because our marriage will truly be over forever. There will be no going back if she starts up her A again.

We are not in counseling because gemela has not yet committed to R. If she would ever make that decision, we would go to counseling. We spent months in counseling where she was promising to work on the marriage and all the while she was secretly calling the OM daily. Even the MC told us we were wasting our time. The problem is she is a very convincing liar and the MC believes anything she says. We can't rebuild a marriage on lies. Until gemela learns to start telling the truth, the effort is wasted.

You will have to ask gemela how much she believes I have changed. I have my opinion but hers is the only one that matters.

Am I worried about money? No. I just find gemela's spending habits to be frivolous and a slap in my face. I don't understand why we are going out and spending thousands of dollars on gold bracelets just because she needs something to match some earrings when we are about to separate - probably forever. Maybe she is just building up an inventory of things to sell. I really don't know. It just bothered me. I never said I would not send her things. I said quite the opposite. I will pay to send her things. I just am not willing to write the aduana a blank check for importation. If you have never imported things into Mexico, you have no idea how corrupt they are. I used to manage an international business in Mexico. I do have some idea.

Since gemela won't discuss the A or problems in our marriage, I have no way of knowing if I am meeting or not meeting her needs. Gemela just wants this all to go quietly away. I can't accept that. My feeling is that gemela really does want to leave but is afraid to. I think she is going to discover that she will do quite well back in Mexico and she will be very happy being close to her mother and father and her twin sister. That is all she really needs. Once she has a stable home and location, we will share custody of the kids.

Yes she could have a change of heart and decide that she wants to give the marriage a try. If so, we will try. But I doubt that will happen. I don't hold my breath anyway. Psychologically I am preparing myself to be a single parent and I am pretty excited about it to tell you the truth.

I have no plans for the future - marriage to gemela, divorce, nothing. My only plan is to start on this new adventure and take it as it comes. We will both do what is best to help the DDs get through this transition. I am just trying to survive the next 22 days in a positive attitude. My heart is in autopilot at the moment and I do not want to do anything to upset the balance during these next three weeks. It has taken us a year to get to where we are now. Nothing is going to change in three weeks.

Sorry tear but I am a little angry over this concept of romantic presents and buying love. I do not buy gemela gold bracelets to buy her love. I buy them because she wants them and believes she needs them for a reason I have yet to understand. I do not consider these romantic gifts and never have.

On the other hand, I am angry about "romantic gifts". This is a tactic OM used and I think they all use. This is kind of like the "perfect rose" on Desperate Housewives. It is really easy for an OM to be romantic. He doesn't have to clean up vomit, sit in the ER with sick daughters, massage WW's back for half an hour last night because she couldn't move.

I drive WW's car and stop by the gas station so WW won't have to. I clean up the kitchen in the morning to give her a little extra time to relax. I turn up the AC and sweat all night because WW is cold. I do these things because I love her. She doesn't even notice and I don't tell her about them. I don't spend much money on "romantic" gifts. I do know the difference. I think WW's must believe that life is a Harlequin romance. The reality is that marriage is not always wining and dining, not always romantic gestures. It can include them but it can be paint drying boring at times too.

The reason WW buying gold bracelets bothered me so much is that it makes me believe she is in complete denial of our problem. She is still locked up in her fantasy only now it is a fantasy of a happy marriage.

Just an FYI Cialis (Levitra & Viagra) are ED (impotence) drugs. I did not garner this information first hand, my brother set up a captive for one of those companies. But I don't have to tell you that Pio, you are right on target when you said that if it is coming from hotmail, you can be sure you are about to be growing something, be it more hair, larger body parts, etc.

Sorry Todd, I stand corrected. I didn't realize you and Pio were peers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Tear, I know you mean well but our spouses usually aren't leaving us because we are unwilling to change. They are usually leaving because they are chasing a fantasy and they seem to be locked on the vision of our marriages at their most unhappy times (usually because of the affair). Us folks here at MB are all about the change: ready, willing and able. Some spouses use what they perceive as our weaknesses to rationalize their affairs so they don't want to hear anything about how to make the marriage better. Once they have leapt into the affair the time for change has usually passed until the affair is dead.


Pio, I hope you don't mind me chuckling at this. I have thought this too but I know it is not true. You will heal and you WILL live to love again.


Pio, you know this is not true. You know in your heart of hearts that the two of you were very much in love with each other. So many of them say that, it's nonsense, just let it roll off of you. It's called revisionist history and it is done once again to excuse the inexcusable. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> You have even contradicted yourself:



AH HA!! She did love you!! Told you so!

One more thing - your Plan B letter. If I were you I might start a new thread just for feedback on the letter. My own Plan B letter was chewed up and spit back out here so from experience I can tell you it needs to be very short, a love letter, and should contain an olive branch for her to come back to you. You'll get more feedback if you post a new thread for it.

Good luck.

Piojitos,
I have never posted directly to you before. I just wanted to let you know that I read this thread and you seem like quite a remarkable man. I am sorry that you are going through such a difficult time. I wish the best for you.

I hardly consider ToddAC a "peer". He is nowhere near my equal! Of course I can say that because he is on haitus for a few weeks and can't retort.

Thanks Shattered05. I do understand and don't disagree but my understanding of the truth and WW's understanding of the truth are different things. I have come to find out that only her version seems to matter in the greater scheme of things.

I am not sure what tear is on about. Her post did/does bother me a bit. I think she projects a little into my situation and maybe that frustrates her at times. Her sitch is very different but she doesn't always see that.

I am a little sad this AM so please excuse me. We finally told the DD's last night that Mom is going to Mexico alone and the rest of us are going elsewhere. We did not say that Mom is not coming back. We can do that later. One thing at a time. We basically agreed on a good lie. We told them that Abuelita is sick and Mom needs to go tend to her for a while. Mom is NOT going to Cancun. DD2 took it very well. She said "okay - can I go back to my room and play with my Gameboy now?". DD1 took it much as expected. Tears, anger, tantrum, etc. This took about an hour to calm down but we did. I told gemela that it is critical that we maintain this lie because DD1 will probe it and probe it to try to find a different solution. DD1 is very persistent.

I told WW that we would maintain this same lie here among all our friends and neighbors. On the off chance that she does ever come back, there is no point in making her a pariah. I have exposed to everyone that mattered expect FIL but I have urged WW to tell him and all her family the truth once she is in Mexico. I won't help her lie to her family. Should we have told the DDs the truth? I don't know. Mainly we did not because we have no idea what the outcome will be. Some day I think they should know everything (assuming they will still remember this) but not until they are much older.

I was asking myself this last weekend if maybe we were not making a mistake. We are getting along so well. But I decided we are getting along so well because we ARE about to separate. Nothing has fundamentally changed so the reason for separation is still valid. I think we both feel the pressure being eased. It does break my heart to see DD1 cry. I hate that it has come to this. I was so tempted to DJ and LB WW last night but I didn't say a word. But I do remember that the A was gemela's choice and I have given her almost a year to get into recovery with no success so, whether she likes it or not, she owns this.

I did guess what Cialis was by context. I am a bit stressed by my hotmail. I don't really know what to do. Maybe it is the depression that makes me indecisive. I think it is the depression - no, I don't - yes - no. Oh I DON'T KNOW! What I am struggling with is that I want to lose the 25 pounds in 30 days but can I increase the size of my "manhood" by 30% during that same time I am reducing or do I need to do one and then the other? If I increase the size of my manhood first, will the 25 lb reduction in 30 days eliminate that gain even though the manhood ad claims it is permanent? I just don't know what to do but I need to make a decision in a hurry to get in shape for the 117 h0rneyh0usew1ves who keep sending me emails!

When I say I may never be interested in a woman again it is not that I don't like woman or I find them unattractive. The basic issue is trust. I know now that I can never fully trust anyone ever again. Okay maybe I was wrong to trust gemela to begin with. My mistake. But it goes against my fundamental belief structure to think I cannot trust my spouse who promised me before God that she would be faithful to me. I have a lot of internal rewiring to do before I can think about women again. I think I'll just move in with ToddAC instead. A bit like the movie "Grumpy Old Men".