What I'm about to write is my feelings on what I've read here. This is honest and open comment, because I feel that too much is swept under the rug here at times to spare some people's feelings.<P>I have betrayed, and I have reconciled with my husband. We are working on our marriage, and it's hard because of our incompatibility. But I love him, and we have been together for a long time and we will make it God willing.<P>I can NOT make casual observations regarding other's relationships, especially in regard to cheating spouses because no one has been through all the betrayed have except the betrayed themselves on this board. But I cannot for the life of me understand why some are willing to wait so long for these betrayers to come around and put up with all of the bullsh*t that these people dish out in hopes of one day reconciling. What keeps the spouse hanging on to hopes that the betrayer will return, and why would the betrayed want them?? I can see when two partners are willing to talk it over amicably and they BOTH show their willingness to do this, that there may be a chance with SO MUCH work, but why should any betrayed person Plan A with a betrayer who shows no remorse about what they've done to the marriage? Are these betrayers not adults who can understand what they've done and be treated with kid gloves because they are in their fantasy world? I was in the fantasy world but still knew what I was doing and if I was called on it would have been at my husbands feet to try to get him back. Thats embarrassing to even say but it's the truth because I did and do love him and always will. If I didn't love him I would have left him, but I could never do that. These betrayers that have gone the full 9 yards and have left their spouses and have put them through the wringer, is this not a clear sign of their feelings? This isn't a negative mark on the betrayed, this is a negative mark on THEM, they made the bad choice, they are responsible for their own actions, they will have to suffer the consequences. <P>I'm sorry, but from what I read here these people who betray are just using and abusing their spouses and it makes me mad to see that they can hurt others like this and just get Plan A'd to death. I don't advocate lovebusters or arguments, but don't people need to understand what they've caused in their lives?

There's not a day that passes that I don't think about and feel what you wrote. Never-the-less, I will ask again, what are the alternatives? If you love your spouse and want to keep an intact home for the children, and your spouse's behavior is incongruent with your long-term perception of their values, what better ways are there to deal with the situation?

I totally agree. We are partially responsible for our own misery if we allow ourselves to be "led" by the vindictive actions of our delusional spouses. Take charge of your lives and don't set yourself up for anymore pain, agony and belittling actions.<P>------------------<BR>Rachel :)<P>

Rachel,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>We are partially responsible for our own misery if we allow ourselves to be "led" by the vindictive actions of our delusional spouses. Take charge of your lives and don't set yourself up for anymore pain, agony and belittling actions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True we are partially to blame for the misery we are in, but I would be fully to blame for all the misery if I didn’t do what I NEED to do to get through/over this.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR>

Connor - <P>You said exactly what goes through my mind almost each and every minute of the day. Much like every other betrayed here, I SWORE that if my spouse ever betrayed me, I'd be gone in a heartbeat. My W and I did have the opportunity to discuss this very topic many months before her decision to leave me...during the Clinton-Lewinsky debacle. I very distinctly remember even my W saying how awful Clinton was for what he put Hillary through. At that time, even my W recognized the evil, destructive nature of extramarital affairs. So it apparently works both ways. My W was disgusted by the Clinton deal but yet chose to do the very same thing (no...even worse) to me.<P>For my part, I convinced myself that that type of betrayal would be entirely unforgivable and that I would definitely want out. But you want to know something? When it happens to you, things are different.<P>I continually get "pressure" from both family and friends to "dump her". I know logically and practically that I should. but I love her (God only knows why) and I continue to hang in there.<P>Ironically, my W has filed for divorce so this "waiting around" may become a moot point shortly. When I married, I stated that I would stick with my W "for better or WORSE...in good times and BAD" not "until things get rough". Despite the fact that every betrayer here has desecrated their vows to forsake all others, the betrayed can at least hold their head high and live the rest of their life with a clear conscious.<P>I don't expect to be marrid much longer. I am coming to terms with that. However, my heart still commands me to continue to hold onto hope until the last bell is rung. Although I will not take any extraordinary measures to save the marriage, I do want to ensure that I have exhausted all reasonable avenues to reconcile. You see for us betrayed, or self-esteem has been severely damaged and our egos have been battered. for me, hanging onto hope when there isn't much is a testament to my character, faith and inner strength. Someday, my W will recognize what she lost and will forever regret her decisions and actions.

Then perhaps the REAL point of Plan A is to give yourself time so you don't make impulsive decisions about something so momentous as ending a marriage?<P>I have been "Plan A"-ing since March, and while the marriage is definitely better, PSBFH (Predatory She-B*tch from Hell) is still in the picture (see my "Please tell me this isn't what it looks like" thread).<P>Because I have no proof that anything's going on, it would be foolhardy for me to file for separation or divorce at this point...so I live in no-man's land, I try to detach emotionally from THAT part of the situation without detaching from the entire relationship (no small feat, and I haven't mastered it yet).<P>I am terrified of making a wrong decision. At least this way, I get some income while I think, wonder, regain my own emotionally strength, and decide how I'll know when to put my foot down.<P>It is often hard to live with someone who has no sensitivity for my feelings, though.<P>Age is another factor...at 25 I might be long gone. At 44, it's a different story, even with no kids. It's easy to say, "You will find someone who will treat you the way you deserve to be treated", but if you look at the personals, the criteria you always see are "under 35", "trim", "slim", "long legged", "fit", "extremely attractive", etc., etc. Hardly the stuff to make a 44-year-old woman long to get back in the hunt.

Hi all & thanks for the replies.<P>I didn't mean to imply that I didn't agree with Steve Harleys methods, because I do. I have a lot of respect for all of you who give it everything you got to make sure that you did everything possible to save the marriage, because you love your H or W that much. When I've read some posts lately I started thinking about this and it makes sense to get yourself to a point where you can sucessfully go on without your h/w if they choose not to reconcile. Plan A'ing and B'ing serves their purposes not only in reconciliation but also self preservation I'm seeing and it makes a lot of sense. But in my case I didn't respond to any love deposits because of being involved with someone else. When I look back on it I hate myself for what I did but unless there were real problems in the marriage before that the betrayed spouse caused, and I mean serious problems, then the Plan A would seem to be a moot attempt because of the betrayers ambivalence for their spouse during the affair. And I may be wrong here to generalize but two people involved in an affair are like two teenagers, they're immature, not thinking responsibly and they don't react to mature attention and behavior. They play lots of games. They sneak around as if they dont want their parents to catch them. When the betrayed tries to interact with their betrayer on common ground when we're acting so selfishly and immaturely how can there possibly be rational reaction? Here you have the betrayed with their feet on the ground trying to reason with someone with their head in the clouds.

Conner,<BR>Plan A may be exactly for that reason, that is keeping one partners feet on the ground. As you are probabaly aware only a few affairs succeed, but think of the divorce rate if everybody ran off for a divorce when an affair was discovered. Someone, for what ever reason, must stay commited to the marriage, thats just human nature.<BR>I can hardlt remember my w affair now and it just ended a week ago. I'm now concentrating on rebuilding our marriage. <BR>I agree with you that I don't understand how people can go yrs, but if thats the way they feel about your spouse then thats great for them.

Conner,<BR> I understand what you are saying.Why would you want somebody back after they cheated on you,and then continued to walk all over you as they continue their affair?But I think it's human nature to not want to let go of the life you had.The one who cheated is the one who wants a new life with someone else,while you're left sitting there wondering what you're supposed to do with your life.And after a long term marriage,who wants to start"dating"again? But you do find you can only do plan A for only so long,and then it's starts eating away at your self-esteem and self-respect.You can't be a doormat forever.I agree with Dazed and Confused,when you're in your forties,who wants to start looking for somebody new?Have you seen those personals?How can a divorced woman with three kids advertise for someone"tall,dark,and handsome,athletic,emotionally and financially secure,and make at least $50,000 a year"?If there was a guy out there like that,would he be looking in the personals for a woman with three kids? --Murph

Connor, You said it when you said the betrayer and the OP are like two teenagers. I can remember when my daughter was dating if I didn't like the boy and was vocal about him the more determine she was to date him. However, if I bit my tongue and didn't put him down she soon realized that he wasn't good for her and dropped him. I can't speak for the others but this affair was totally out of the blue I am not even sure my H understands what is going on with himself. He has changed completely and something caused. Itmy case I think he hit midlife and didn't know how to deal with it and this was a way. So I wait.Not patiently but I wait and do everything in my power to help him come to his senses. BUt I also realize that there is a good possiblity that he won't so during this waiting time I am preparing myself to go on without him. I think we all need this time to prepare for what ever happens and to end a relationship without this time would be more emotional and detrimental to the betrayed. It would be total over load. Now waiting for years to me would be a problem, the betrayed would seem to have a problem in letting go and moving on. I can't see my self waiting more then a year total. I think if he hasn't come back I will be ready to go on by then. But each of us is different and we all deal with things differently. You never know what you are going to do until it happens to you!<P>------------------<BR>di<BR>