Hey BK, tried to write back earlier but was soooooo angry I never sent my rant.

My Q to you is...how do I react when H provides a story that to me seems fabricated...lots of info makes no sense...story changes and evolves to meet his needs in situation...ends up with him being out until 0400...he texts me on and off during the night providing tiny pieces of info setting things up for the outcome. I could predict these stories and endings as I have seen multiple ones.

Big issue is H hates being questioned...duh and complains how I do it. This was his big c/o to MC...MC tells me to approach in a different way that is nonthreatening...ok, I always have...it is WS guilt and defenses that make him react like an a$$...so he rolls in at 0400 after I text him at 0315 asking if he is alive...he never responded back to my texts or calls from 0315 on and I never called him all night and only responded to the texts he sent me.

I would like to tell him not to even try to give me info since I'm not buying it but that doesnt seem like it would be acceptable as a recovery effort but personally I can't see recovery if he is continuing to lie...I have no way of knowing except my gut which has been pretty accurate through this whole nightmare...

What says ye?

Todd must have had a good night...no news is good news...or...

ToddAC,

I agree that you should tone down the rhetoric a bit. "La puta" is a very strong word. Personally I would recommend "la cabrona ramera". Far less insulting.

I am upset. I bought a Gillette M3P razor in the USA and have just opened it so I could shave. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to upload music to it. It didn't come with a CD and, so far, I haven't found the USB port. Any ideas?

I have just started reading Mr. Pittman.

WW and I were scheduled to meet for dinner at 6:30. At 6:45, she called to say she was lost. She was three blocks away and I gave her directions. I walked downstairs ten minutes later and she was waiting in front, sitting in her car. I opened the passenger side door and got into the car. My WW is a beautiful woman and she looked great. She is 52 and looks 35. She is a benefactor of that legendary Latin olive complexion. I have to admit that she stirred some of the same passions as when I first met her. I told her she looked great. She looked at me through her $300 sunglasses, smiled and thanked me. We were off to a great start.

We got to the restaurant which was nearly empty, odd for a Friday night. We sat at a table that offered as much privacy as possible and just looked and smiled at each other until the server came over. We each ordered a drink and I told the server we wanted to relax and enjoy our drinks and we would order later. I told WW that my goal in having dinner was for us to get caught up but for the experience to be a positive and enjoyable one. She agreed.

Quiet enjoyment lasted two minutes. Then she started in where she left off on the phone from the night before. Everything is about me. I exposed her affair. I moved out and left her stranded. She had to endure a tornado that removed the roof. You don’t abandon your spouse. When there are problems you stay and work them out. And I had no right to expose her affair. That represented marital problems and such problems such be limited to the couple. As is customary for everyone in her real family, she repeated herself five times.

Five is my limit as it happens. I told her that if she thought marital problems should be kept between the couple, then why did she bring OM into our marriage. She replied that she saw a minister on television who said that if a man doesn’t take care of his crops, another man will. She only had the affair because of problems in our marriage. I reminded her that whilst her affair was in full swing, most of the time I was lying in bed ill and not knowing what was wrong with me. She let me know that it was all my fault, just if I had changed doctors earlier, maybe the new doctor would have diagnosed the tumor and she may never have had her affair.

I also reminded her of the first trip I made to the ER when OM drove us. I reminded her that whilst I lay in an ER treatment room, she insisted on sitting with OM in the lobby. She said that she doesn’t cope with hospitals well and that she “felt sorry” for OM having to sit by himself. I reminded her that I had my first seizure then and my heart felt like it was going to pound out of my chest. That why couldn’t she understand that and stick by my side. I was apprehensive and not fully cognizant. Why couldn’t she let OM sit by himself and watch television in the comfortable lobby. I told her it was clear that after only two months of knowing OM, an attraction was already in place. So strong an attraction in fact that she could leave me to deal with the nurses and doctors alone. She said that I had always misunderstood her relationship with OM, that I was fine and she felt badly for him that he had to drive us to the hospital and was no going to let him sit by himself in the lobby.

Then she went back to repeating over and over how I had exposed her and embarrassed her. I told her that when a spouse has an affair, it sets into motion the Law of Unintended Consequences. One such consequence was exposure. A second was my moving out. At this point, she decided to change tactics. I misunderstood what she had said. She did not have an affair. OM is impotent don’t you know? We were just friends. I told her that there is a book by Dr. Shirley Glass, a pioneer in infidelity research, entitled “Not Just Friends”. She said that that woman is crazy too and probably wrote the book to cover her own problems. Dr. Glass’s husband did have a number of affairs, so score one for WW.

Next, things deteriorated. At one point, I told her that I had selected this particular restaurant because if things got and stayed ugly, I could walk home. She was unimpressed and continued to repeat the blame game over and over again, ad nauseam. I once again told her that if the conversation stayed with the topic of blaming ToddAC for her affair and every ill and war the world has ever known, I would pay the check and leave. She didn’t listen. I stood up, tracked down the server, paid my tab and walked out the door. Since WW’s back was to the door, she did not see me leave. I told her I was leaving but apparently she didn’t buy it.

I got back home fuming. I knew meeting for dinner was a mistake and I was kicking myself. My WW will never ever admit to the affair and stick to it. She will never let her hurt and sting from exposure go. Her affair will always be my fault. My health will always be my fault. Oh, I forgot, at one point, after I had asked her how she was, and given the fact that she didn’t throw the same question to me, I asked her if she wanted to know how I was doing. She said she assumed I was fine or she would have heard differently from the boys. I asked her did she know that I had five weeks of therapy. She said that DS3 told her. I asked her was she curious how the experience was or what the prognosis is. She replied no. In short, my WW continues to demonstrate a lack of empathy.

My ten minutes of solitude were broken by her phone call. She was livid that I had just walked out and not told her. I reminded her that I did tell her I was leaving and walking home. She said you don’t do that to a woman and leave her sitting alone in a restaurant. Again, she was lost. I gave her directions to the expressway and she headed home. Thus it all ended where it began last night, with WW lost. I think there is a metaphor hidden in there somewhere.

And BTW, larousse, I did not call WW la puta. A good life is a chain of small victories.

Just as I was finishing this post, the phone rang. It was WW. She told me she had a nice time last night at dinner. Can someone please help me understand how she and I had such different experiences from the same dinner?

I am telliny you that you need to maintain NC. Problems in marriage result in counseling, separation or divorce. All valid options. WW is the one who decided to let someone else plow with your heffer. That was never a valid option.

Everything you said is right but you have said it all before. Just stay away from her. Let nature take its course. You will never convince her she did anything wrong. Stop trying. Maybe one day she will decide that for herself.

I do agree that she is the first one who decided to involve someone else in the M (i.e. OM) I was hoping you were going to say that and it looks like you did.

BTW, I do agree with your WW on one point - we are all crazy here. She nailed that one.

For my part I am learning to be a single parent and I am enjoying it. I don't miss gemela in the least. I know it is not that simple. Someday we will have to decide something permanent for the girls. Today is just not going to be that day.

Todd,

I'm stunned that your wife would actually say that she's not interested in your treatment and your prognosis. I can't believe that after being happily married for over 30 years and having 3 children together that she could be so cold and uncaring. I can't believe that she felt she belonged with her slimy OM in the frickin lobby, instead of by the side of her sick husband. I agree with Pio -- NC. You have to concentrate on yourself and getting better. I don't buy this "fog" excuse for this type of behavior. This is unconscionable. Period.

Pio -- how are your girls doing? Are they doing ok without their mom? What is your Amazon housekeeper like? Has she made a connection with the girls yet?

I wish I had some advice for both of you, but your wives and I come from different planets. I just shake my head thinking about both of them.

I hope you both find some peace and some healing away from both of them. Life can sure be unfair. I hope things get better.

The girls are okay and glad to be home. We put their backpacks together for their first day tomorrow. The biggest problem is that DD2 does not have as many key chains on her backpack as DD1. I explained that it is a collection and she adds as she goes to school. We worked it out.

The bad news is that DD2 DID get a rash! She always does that when we travel because she does not dry herself when she goes peepee very well. OMG! What will I do? WW is not here to tell me what to do about the rash!?!?!!

Amazon woman is kind but connection is not there yet. The girls are adorable and everyone falls in love with them easily. I guess they get that from their mom.

I will say one thing. As angry as I am at WW for letting things get to this, if she had shown up at the airport in Miami for London and told me that she knew we ahd agreed to separate but she wanted to come back and fight for her marriage, I would have said "okay - let's try". She didn't. I think long term separation is what is needed right now. Gemela needs to decide what she wants. I need to decide if I want her back. I just don't know right now. I need time.

Todd, wow! Horrible dinner & unbelievable phone conversation with your WW. There is no understanding from her, she's simply out there in the clouds.

Pio - you don't miss g, that's great.

I had the very unpleasant experience the other day of sharing a "moment" with ex & pisses me off still. I don't love him, don't want him back but it makes me mad that it was so easy to share a laugh. Brings tears to my eyes & that pisses me off even more.

Gemela really does sound like a clueless child. From what you say about her not being able to control spending on herself, she reminds me of Veruca Salt. Maybe you need to pack her off to spend some time with Willy Wonka..

Has she ever lived on her own and paid for her own living expenses? Was she poor growing up, or was she indulged and treated like a princess? She just seems to be lacking in some adult skills. And I really don't know how you help a person to get them.

I completely understand your need for NC, but I keep wondering if you two could email a lot and try to have a real dialogue, if you might get inside her head a bit and be able to form some kind of understanding. I just don't know... Maybe after some time with no interaction, you could try "talking" by email. That way, each thing you say is thought through and you can't say things in anger or irritation like you can on the phone or in person.

It's too bad that the children get caught in the middle. They need a strong, independent, goal-oriented woman as a role model. I wonder if Gemela has in it her to become that. Her obsession with material things is costing her the chance to be something real. She might actually hate her life of primping and shopping and she may have some inner desire to be more, but be afraid of failure and looking stupid. And if she feels like there are layers of her that you've never seen or discovered, she might have some serious resentment towards you over it.

But, I don't know enough about her to know if that could be true. I do know that it would get old and be scary as you get older, to feel like your entire value rests on how you look and what other people think of you. I actually feel really, really sorry for her.

Maybe I'm being overly idealistic, but I hope that you can find some depth to Gemela that you weren't even aware was there and help her to find the confidence to work on it.

How far off am I?

As far as the rash on your little girl, that's a rough one for dads. It's much easier for mothers with sons, because no thinks anything of mothers cleaning their little boys genital area. Do you have a trusted woman friend who you can call on to help? It shouldn't be an issue, but unfortunately it is.

Well I just got DD2 back from the emergency room. Fortunately they were able to get her into OR and applied a topical cream of something called Desitin(?). They say she should get better.

Okay I am joking. I can apply Desitin and I even knew where it was.

I think your description of gemela is pretty accurate. She was poor growing up and only had the necessities. She never lived on her own but that is not uncommon in Mexico. An unmarried woman living by herself in Mexico is not "proper". She was also always the subordinate twin. This is my biggest gripe with SIL - she really pushes gemela around in a non-physical way.

Depth - that seems to be my problem right now. I am just not sure how much is behind the makeup to really love. I never thought of her as shallow until the A and I still don't think she is shallow. Too trusting maybe. Vain definitely. Afraid of grey hair and wrinkles - absolutely.

There are many women I have been around prettier than gemela. I was never attracted to them because I truly loved gemela. She and OM stuck up my love bank and emptied it out.

I feel very peaceful that she is not here. Right now the A is a thousand miles away - well, actually it is more like 6 thousand miles away. And do you know what? She could be having another affair and I don't care. I am not jealous in the least. I feel like she is out of my life entirely. I know some day she will have to be back in it because of the girls. For now, I am getting some much needed rest.

Oh, I took all her bikini swimsuits and threw them in the trash today. She said she didn't like the way they fit or sagged. I don't care. I just dumped them. I may start on shoes next.

I need help. WW just called and wants to have dinner again tonight. Can someone tell me what is going on?

BTW ToddAC,

What we discussed is that WW should NOT deny the tunor. What she should have done is deny the A and blame your belief in the A on your tumor because it was affecting your thoughts and memories. She is stupid to deny the tumor.

OTOH, maybe you DON'T have a tumor. Now that I think of it, I have never seen the MRI <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I am back in the office and on email tomorrow. Girls are bathed and in pajamas and fed. Only thing left is milk. When we were going through the storage, I found an old referee shirt. I brought it back. I will use it every time DDs get into a fight. We have a couple of behavioral issues that I want to work on. I have a lot of free time now. I will use some of it for that.

DDs still think mom is coming back very soon. I will not tell them any differently. Once WW and I decide what the future holds, we will address it then. My sister told me that DD1 has an almost unnatural bond with WW. I know that WW was borderline abusive with her. Maybe that is part of it. I don't know. I do know it will be good for DD1 to be away from mom for a little while. She needs to learn that she will be okay if mom is not around all the time - the same as for me too. She should not cling to either one of us. Her behavior is not like most other children and has not been for many years. I do want to get her into counseling.

Tell her you do not want to have dinner with her. Get caller ID and stop taking her calls.

Maybe your Plan B is starting to have some effect. But it is not working nearly enough yet. I recommend NC.

Todd,

Do you have any idea of why she wants to get back together? Has she said why? Her actions are not those of someone trying to reconcile.

ToddAC,

I was just checking something in SAA and I cannot find anywhere that Dr. Harley says it is okay to POJA the truth. Only historians can rewrite history and get away with it.

Stay away from WW.

Pio,

Are you just joking, or did you really toss her bikinis? As far as the shoes, please don't throw her stuff out. I don't mean to pick on you, only trying to help. But, you helped make her what she is. Maybe it was fun to buy her things and make her feel happy. But you spoiled her and allowed her to behave that way and be dependent on you and not responsible for herself. You said something once that stuck in my mind, something like you liked to dress her up. It sounds almost like you viewed her as a child, not an equal. Throwing away her things is treating her like a kid and it's not the right way to treat a kid either. If you want her to change, you're going to have to help her, not punish her.

Have you ever talked to Gemela and asked her why she feels that she needs all these things and try to get her to talk about her motivations, her childhood, her fears and most importantly, what she wants out of life? What does she want your girls to be like when they grow up? Does she want them to be a professional or a trophy wife?

I don't mean to be cruel, just trying to see if there's anything that can be done to fix this mess. Gemela is responsible for the affair, but you're both responsible for the dynamics of your marriage. And she may not have the maturity to do much more than to try to look pretty to be liked and wanted.

I have already done that. My question is considering how badly dinner went last night, why does WW want to have dinner again tonight? Maybe she thinks things went well becasue she got to castigate me for exposure and abandonment?

Todd,

thanks for the update.

Sadly I don't have any nails left. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I think it's a great turn of events, althought it doesn't seem like that right now.

I'm writing a longer answer if you don't mind.

Hola Pio,

Glad you are back your home and coping well with DD's.
Just to imagine a 30 hrs flight with two little girls gives me a headache.
About your choice of words from puta to ramera... I think most girls now would need a dicctionary to understand the second one. It seems puta is a stronger insult than ramera as if doing 'it' for lust were worst than doing it for money... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Todd,

Is your wife the type who once she decides she wants something, she HAS to get it? For whatever reasons, she may have decided that she wants her marriage back. So, she may be putting her own spin on your interactions, trying to get what she wants.

You have to do what's best for you. She certainly isn't thinking about what's best for you. If being around her agitates you and upsets you, then you have to stay away from her. You need to explain to your boys what's going on and what effect it's having on you, so they lay off the pressure for you to meet with her.

It sounds to me like she is simply trying to POJA reality.

Yes I did toss the bikinis because she said she does not like them. I was joking about the shoes. I would never touch those. The bikinis I associate with her spending every afternoon at the pool with OM. They are a trigger for me so yes they are in the bin. I saved a couple that she likes and still wears.

Gemela and I both grew up without very much. She had a neglectful father and I had an abusive stepfather. I like to see gemela dress up because it makes her happy. Personally I don't care what she wears. I always thought she was as beautiful the moment she woke up in the morning as at her best dressed. She has an old dress she has always worn for painting and doing dirty work around the house. She is prettiest in that dress. All her other clothes are just a facade - they aren't her.

There may be more broken here than can be fixed.Yes I may be partly responsible for making her what she is. I did that with the best of intentions and the worst of results. Did it make her have an affair? No. She did it because she wanted to.