Isn't it late in NZ? Isn't tomorrow a school day?

Did you see my post before yours.

It's 9.05pm and yes, it's a school night.

Didn't see it. I post like I dress.

LOL go back a post.

I did go back and read. Unfortunately we were apparently writing at the same time. Like I said - I post like I dress.

I see. Anyway, it is a school night.

Then finish your homework, make sure you brush your teeth and go get in bed and Rob will bring your milk to you in a few minutes. No...wait...that's MY house. Never mind.

Hi everyone,

Kiwi u crack me up with your curiousity but it was a good Q...just b/c G had an A doesn't really mean there is a direct relationship btwn your getting symptoms at that time...both of the viruses can lay dormant for long times and then just getcha when they feel the need to emerge or are triggered by stress. The whole STD issue only clouds the real problems...u can't place blame on something that absolutely can't be proven. If it were something like gonnorhea or chlamydia or something that both partners actively have at the same time that doesn not go away without antibiotic treatment then it is much easier to identify the person who gave you the gift. Has G been tested for HPV/HSV? As you know Pio from your smarta$$ comment yesterday, HPV will show up on pap. There is now an immunization for HPV which you can read about at the CDC website. This is a huge.

Ok, enough of todays medical updates

Give me some feedback on what you think this means...

It was my turn for date planning...I set up something neither of us had done together...got the babysitter etc. We go off and instantly I see H looks mildly anxious/aggravated...he asks me on the way if we are setting ourselves up for failure b/c of going from wanting a D 5d ago to trying to avoid any fighting, questioning and now spending so much time together compared to before. I just look at him and don't answer...he blows it off and says forget it.

The night was pretty much a nightmare. He hated the place, didn't touch his food, sat there as if he was being tortured and didn't speak...the entertainment portion thank goodness was excellent so that saved us from leaving. I had prepaid for everything so leaving at the onset wasn't really an option.

We leave and it is 8:30 pm and he is ready to go home...I request a stop so that I can get my favorite chocolate martini...we go to a very nice place and order at the bar.

He then goes back to R talk and wants to know if in the past week I have had any issues with things he done or said since I told him that I was doing what our MC recommended and was not reacting or verbalizing things the way I had previously. I told him that would ruin the whole point of me doing if I let him know what I would have said. He said that if anything bothered me he needed to know b/c he was on his best behavior and if I still had issues with him that would be an indicator to him that this M was doomed.

I told him that I thought he was just looking for an excuse to quit trying and looking for the easy out. He then kept pressing for info...I let him have it and told him that I thought his friends that were a couple were only his friends b/c he really likes the female and by being friends with her H it legitimizes his spending time and talking to/being around her. He confirmed I was correct. I told him that I realize b/c this has happened so much in the past where it just a friendship at the beginning but then he gets emotionally attached and it goes from there. I asked what it is about these OP that he needs that he can't get from me...he says they enjoy his sense of humor and can laugh together and have fun and that we have lost that.

I asked if he thought we could get it back and he said that was the whole point of us spending time together so that he could try and figure out if we could. He said he wants it badly but just doesn't know how to get it...says he has cut so much and so many things out of his life to try and make me less threatened and to be in only "appropriate" relationships that he is having tons of stress trying to keep the boundaries with all of these OPs who are pushing him in multiple directions. I'm sure he is correct about being stressed but I have a hard time empathizing since he created all of this mess.

He has said that if it weren't for the kids and money he would have left...said a small bit of his staying is me but the majority is the previously stated. He says he is afraid I am expecting everything to suddenly be all better. I told him I expect nothing and know it will take time to see if things are going to work...I also said that he has had since March and if he hasn't figured it out by now I doubt he will.

I think I need to get into Pio's frame of mind and mentally prep for D and if it doesn't happen that's a bonus. My H constantly makes comments jokingly about it being the end or that's it were done, it's over etc. Gets old quick.

Marathon post...apologies

Well I think H is still baiting you. Just don't bite. I'll read this a little more carefully in the morning as I am really pressed with the DDs but I did want to say one thing.

Early on in our journey, the MC suggested we go on "dates". Really bad advice and a huge disaster. Back then, WW was still heavily fogged and, although she never said this, I believe she felt that being out with me was cheating on OM and it was painful for her. She could not allow herself to have a good time with me and did everything she could to ruin it. And she did.

Mother,

If you are lurking, can you please talk to Dr. Dina's office and get them to make me another pair of glasses EXACTLY like the ones we just got for Valeria? Trying to get her to remember to bring her glasses home from school is impossible. Please send them DHL and let me know all the costs. I need her to have a pair here for homework.

2much, my question had nothing to do with STD's. I just think it's interesting that gemela was the one who changed Pio's very long term single life into a married life.

It's usually someone very special who can do that to a long time bachelor. I was wondering really if there had been other long term relationships and what it was about gemela that was different.

Positive stuff for Pio to think about.

That's the drawback of posting...you can never really know if you are interpretting print the way it was intended when written. I had no idea Pio had been a long term batchelor! I'm sure G is special and has some great qualities that keeps Pio in this despite the heartbreak and frustration and I'm doubly sure that is what makes it so painful.

I know when I think of the positives of the past it makes me sad that I just can't magically get them back. It also inspires me to know that things weren't perfect then either and so there is hope that we can create positives out of all of the negative energy if we really put ourselves to the challenge. There are days/moments I feel all tapped out but when I hear a song or see a picture I sometimes get a jump start and other times just plain depressed. Just like the weather I guess...

2much,

First off I think your H needs to wear the "scarlett letter" or maybe just a big sign saying "lock up your women - I'm a predator". I think you have a responsibility to this other couple to warn them about what is going on. Do you want to let H destroy more lives? I am not saying that you go to the man and say "hey, my H digs your W". But you can do it in a more subtle way.

It sounds like your H is still really fogged up. I have been in exactly your spot with gemela. I remember a Thanksgiving party we went to. One of her complaints about me was that I was not as outgoing as her. That was true and will always be true even though I have improved my social skills. At the party, I was conversing with everyone, learning all their life stories, laughing and joking - and it pissed G off. She was miserable. She went through many months of fighting to maintain her twisted perception of reality. I completely gave up on the dating because she hated it and it made me hate her - yes "hate"/anger. We stopped dating and I stopped hating. I think she also went through a long period where she wanted me to end the M. I don't know why she wanted that and I think it might be pretty complex. I don't think it is just because she loved OM. That may have been part of it. But there also has to be a terrible guilt element IMO that amkes the cut and run option pretty attractive and I think it is probably easier for a man to do that than a woman. It goes back to our caveman training.

All I can say is that I tried my best to stick to my Plan A and her behavior changed over time. She really began to change for the better after about 9 months and made the most gains in about month 10 which was about 6 months after last known contact.

BTW G does have HPV. I know it can lie dormant for many years but the timing of my symptoms is extremely coincidental. I still remember that feeling I had down there within days of that first SF. It was like I knew something was wrong but I was scared and tried to deny it - until the sores broke out. I was able to do enough research on the net to see that my sores resembled HPV more than anything. I was really scared of HIV. Fortunately the doctor got that middle letter wrong.

Hi Pio, Kiwi, 2much, & all the other regs. from this thread. I only picked the names from this page.

I'm just stopping in for a quick update on the date tonight. Unlike last week's date this man showed up on time. A real plus.

He was nice, easy to talk to, was completely present while talking with me. He referred to his son as a cutie pie which I thought was sweet. I'd like to go out with him again & he said he'd like to go out with me again. He'll be going to Italy for 10 days on Thurs. so I don't know if we'll see each other before that. Would be nice though he lives about an 45 min. to an hour from me. He hugged me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Pio,
I was thinking the same thing...I was looking forward to meeting the H this w/e when my H invited him to one of the kids games...the W shows up instead...I have yet to meet this man who my H says he spends so much time with. Soon enough I will have to meet or do a little strategic planning on my own. The strangest thing was when my H was like this with my neighbor who is now my close friend, she had no idea and didn't really think anything of it, her H had no issues with the amt of time my H spent with his W. I was the only one who had issues. Now that my H basically cut off all ties with my neighbor (his own doing-replaced her company with other OWs) she admits that looking back it was all a bit weird but I tell you that is not at all how it went when it was happening. I think she was flattered and enjoyed all the company and attention.

Sorry about the STD stuff...I know it is no picnic.

I am now in month 7 so I guess I have a ways to go. I may loose my mind before the 12 month point though. The Harley's have something with the whole timeline thing...unfortunately everyone is different and some can tolerate more than others I think mostly based on past life experiences. Not saying that is good/bad.

There is so much more to life than dealing with all this M stuff and yet it all points back to your relationship with your spouse. I have always told H that if things were good with us I could deal with anything but as soon as we have issues I have difficulty dealing with the rest of life...basically b/c he is my foundation for dealing with life. I have slowly removed myself from this philosophy out of survival but don't enjoy it...lonely, lonely, lonely no matter how busy or how much I surround myself or submerge myself in other things. Just feel hollow...

Sounds like at least you had a good date! Beats my nightmare:)

Your date sounded very respectful, courteous and sweet to boot! Hope you get a second one before he leaves so that you have more to look forward to on return.

I love huggers!

Yes the loneliness is the worst. I wonder if prisoners prefer torture to being locked up alone. It is when I am with gemela and everything is going smoothly that I feel the loneliest.

So larousse found a gum machine and got engaged. nams had a date show up on time. Maybe Rudolph can make it through the storm after all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Ironic that you would be the loneliest when with G...is it b/c you aren't getting your ENs met even when she is present? That was the case with my M for at least the 8 years preceding all this mess...H tried to meet needs that were important to him and I have to say he did make tons of efforts to meet other needs that I said were issues

I would say something like, if only dinner was ready when I got home...he went through a month or so of making dinner but I didn't change to meet his needs so then back to the same old same old

Then I would say...maybe if you went to church with us as a family...he'd do that a while but then he still wasn't getting what he needed so again it would die off

This was how life was for him for years b/c I couldn't/wouldn't/wasn't able to meet his SF needs the way he wanted...I was basically so tired from juggling work/kids/life and wasn't getting my ENs met and we didn't have anything in common but the kids...and so I wonder how things got so messed up. The one thing I stand by is that I wasn't unfaithful with EA or PA during any of this and neither one of us were happy. That is no longer the point...his behavior is so insane and I just get more bitter and resentful the longer I have to pretend that things are ok and that I am an unfeeling stone who can take any amount of rejection and isolation. It just stinks but a deal is a deal Pio so at least I know I'll hang till Oct without a major blow-out unless it is all him.

I can't imagine how prisoners deal with the loneliness...I think lots turn to God and develop relationships where there once were none. I need to do more of that myself.

Some of the lonliest & worst times of "our recovery" were when then h was away on a bowling trip to Reno with friends. Part of his independent behavior that did not help the marriage heal but I digress...While then h was away we would talk on the phone & text message. I told him I was feeling insecure, that I felt something wasn't right. He assured me things were fine. Within a few days of his return he started his pulling away. The rest is history.

The silver lining is this incident made me pay more attention to my intuition.

Huggers are the best! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />