Phew, all that reading!

Pio, did you take the picture of your feet to prove you polish your nails? Let's take a survey: How many people have a larger second toe (monkey toe)? Does having a larger second toe have any reflection on intellegence?

G said she doesn't want to D, does that mean she wants the marriage & is willing to do the work necessary? Or does it mean she just wants the marriage because the alternative is not attractive to her? I know you're waiting to see, but I think your detachment helps to see this very clearly.

I know for me while then h was in the house I didn't question whether I wanted the mariage. I was blindly in save it mode. Once he was out of the house I saw more clearly who he really was & what I could expect from him if we did stay together. And, importanly, what I wanted & deserved from our marriage.

Larousse, I'm interested in how you met your BF. You say online, was it a dating site or through your work?

So, no plastic ring from a machine, you must be dissapopinted. But the fact "he would date me for a long while" must make up for your dissappointment. Maybe you're lots younger than me, I'm 48 (Todd), but dating for a long while looks like dating with no end goal. Limbo land. I'm too old for that.

Todd, It's good to hear these number tricks have actual applications. They've always seemed to me a way for "mathies" to keep themselves amused, nobody else amused, but them, yes.

Todd,I think you want numbers to cozy up to instead of womens.

The beauty of rewriting history. We can take a marriage of, in my case 21 years, & reduce down to "the first two years were great". Leaving the rest for the stink pile. Did we marry the wrong people or did they we change & grow apart rather than together. I dunno, maybe some of both. I share BigK's sadness.

Tasmanian bladder water is going into my chili recipe.

I'm going out on a limb here & suggesting the french GF had a pretty woo woo that's why your son put up with her.

Kiwi, woo woo spray ROTFLMAO. It was originally intended for the French. America's gift to the home of smelly woo woos.

Hey 2much! I have a sick child home from school today. He's one who never fakes it so whenever he says he's sick he really is. Video games are helping to take his mind off the pain.

Based on all the evidence presented on this thread in the past 12 hours, put all the facts together and I am betting French GF had a pretty SMELLY woo woo.

Perfume isn't popular in France by accident. Not shaving their legs actually came about by necessity before the garter belt was invented. They used to pull the hair through the hose on top and tied little knots to keep them from falling down.

ToddAC:
Think DS and FxGF broke up because your DS doesn’t have anatomically correct shakers?

Pio:
One thing to consider: is there a pattern in how you and G converse? Is all conversation guarded or in a hostile tone? Think about that and think whether a different approach might give different results.

I have a feeling that all initiative is going to have to come from you. From some of the things I read it sounds as if G has had a guarded life and can roll responsibilities over on others. Therefore she books tickets without a definite plan, she goes to the airport in Florida with no . You really have to think what you WANT as opposed to what you are willing to ACCEPT.

Yes I know. I did get mad when I found out the DDs believe she will be here on the 30th but she has no plan in place to make it happen. Why did she promise them that? Once again this will somehow manage to make itself my problem. I read your email. I agree and will follow your plan once she gets here. I won't have much contact with her before she comes so I'll be nice.

I need more info on the turkey shakers. I've been googling all afternoon and I am just not quite getting this.

Wouldn't it be MORE disturbing to have anatomically correct turkey shakers? Thinl of the pepper shaker & the mess that might leave.

OTHO, if she was making a joke she's just bad company & would have made a boring partner for your son.

I just got off the phone with WW and did apologize for my angry outburst but nothing more. We discussed a plan to work on her return tickets. She will update me when she has reservations and I will send her money once I get SIL's OM's bank details.

She seemed disappointed that I had told her I didn't really want her back. I calmly told her to try and look at it from my POV. What has she done in the past year that would make me want her back? She said she understood but was still disappointed. I promised her things would be calm when she returned and that we would take time to discuss the problems and then decide what we would do and that beyond that I had no idea of what the future held. I think it was a very polite conversation.

Good, Pio. I'm glad it went better. If you can come up with a plan, I think she'd be willing to work hard. You may have to be the one to show her the way and you probably need counseling too. But, I think you two can do this and be happy again some day.

BTW, how did you meet Gemela?

That is kind of a long story. Give me till tomorrow.

You know, when I read your post about your first phone conversation, I was thinking about what an impossible situation Gemela is in. She has no money, no control over anything and if you split up, she has no way to take care of herself and the girls.

This is just throwing something out there... but do you think Gemela might want to go to school or maybe start a little business of her own? Just thinking of a way for her to feel a bit more empowered and have something to focus on. If she had something to do that was her own and gave her some fulfillment, your recovery might go a lot better.

Just thought of something... but if she really got into the scrapbooking stuff, maybe she could open a scrapbooking supply business? Todd could help with the logistics... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I've never been into the scrapbooking stuff, but I have friends who are. They go to these parties and weekend retreats and all kinds of stuff. That would give Gemela a way to make her own money, socialize and build some pride in accomplishments.

Anyway... just an idea.

We have talked about some ideas and she has expressed some interest in a business but she never follows through with anything. School would be difficult here - okay - impossible here.



I have always promised to uphold my vows. G is my wife. I am obligated to that commitment. From my POV, G is the one writing herself out of the M. I am sure pool boy will support her.

We bought the scrapbooking stuff to give her another hobby. I do hope she gets into it.

I didn't mean to imply that you wouldn't take care of her and the kids. My point was that I was thinking about what a bad position she's in and how reliant she is on you for everything. Feeling helpless makes people depressed. And my guess is that she feels incredibly resentful. I would.

If she had her own money and some success to make her believe that she could take care of herself, she could be with you because she wants to, not because she feels she has no choice. Wouldn't that feel better for you too -- to have a self-sufficient wife so that you would feel more certain that she wants to be married to you?

The only reason I thought about the scrapbooking thing, is because of you talking about bringing all that stuff back and all the expense and hassle with it. I'm sure that other women who are living there would love to be able to buy those supplies locally. I don't know how much of a hassle it'd be to import it to sell either. I was just trying to think of a way for Gemela to have some control over her own life and some pride in herself.

I have always told G that I would finance any venture she chose. She has ideas - but no follow through. I won't do it for her. That would defeat the purpose.

And for the record, I did NOT nor never have polished my nails. The Vietnamese woman in Walmart did it. I don't know why. I think she just got caught up in the moment. The part I DID like was the paraffin dip. I bought my own and it is coming in my shipment. I am worried though. It is still about 42C here during the day. I hope the paraffin isn't all spread out over the bottom of the container.

I think the paraffin dip will be really good for gemela's hands.

Actually, Pio....this could also somewhat be applicable to an A...but in addition to the fantasy (seeing what WS wants to see)....an A is a much bigger mess...with the added pain of BS, children, friends, extended family....created by the lies and destruction of a family. Also in an A, I think that in an attempt to want to hold on to the fantasy-based R as long as possible, a WS will also deny its destructive consequences as long as possible.... which I believe is the 'logic' behind the MB principles and the plans for a BS..... the main objective being: bring REALITY to the A in any way possible and as soon as possible.....by exposing... by not sugar-coating consequences.....by stating boundaries.....

as the saying goes: be careful for what you wish for.....

I have HEARD....that my WS is definitely NOT a happy camper.... but I wouldn't know.... I am in PLAN B and am trying to enjoy life inspite of the cards I have been dealt!

Hi Todd,



..oush....good thing it's what I am not!



.....I see....so your DS1's French GF is at the bottom of all the French bashing going on?


...in other words......everything a WS is not!

Pio,



I think Kiwi said it best...good thing we can't 'smell' via computers....and please don't tell us that some scientist may actually be working on this!

Well lunamare, it looks like today you're Canadian.

FWIW, larousse may be a bit under the weather.

larousse,
¿has escuchado algo sobre el pelo del perro que te mordió?

LM,

I agree about the relationship to an A. I was thinking that when I was writing it. You are right though that the big difference is that there is no destructive behavior. Even so, when I think about it along that parallel, it makes the LD relationship seem unhealthy. Fortunately larousse is hung over and won't read that I wrote that.

Pio et al.,
Need advice...

Made deal with Pio for no snoop, no outbursts, strong plan A until beginning of Oct

Evidence of H's secret phone revealed itself today without any snooping...I knew he had one, just never saw it and never brought the topic up since I had no evidence

When H wanted R he said he cut off all ties to OWs and gave me the password to cell phone and said I could check it when ever...that's when I figured new phone...the cell bill only shows calls to and from me on the old phone and he must think I'm an idiot to believe he stopped talking to everone on one day and they never have contacted him since...

So...do I just tuck this away and save it for later or bring it up? Has it changed anything? No, it just proves he is continuing to lie to me... His actions are better than before but that is probably b/c of the lack of conflict and confrontation since I have quit looking for things

I'm so tired of this:(

2much,

I have obviously been down this path a few times and each time I responded differently.

1) Throw a screaming fit and kick WW out of the house. That never really worked for me.

2) Show the discovered evidence to WW and tell her quietly how much this hurt me and I couldn't believe how cruel she was.

3) Passively display the evidence (e.g. put the cell phone somewhere in plain sight) without saying a word.

4) Take the hig moral ground and DJ the he!! out of WW telling her how weak and pathetic she was and tell her I was really tired of watching her childish behavior so could she hide it better next time?

I got to where I would alternate between 2 and 4. I realize it is not exactly plan A but you have to preserve your sanity.

Every time I found new evidence, I confronted the issue at that moment and then went back to burying my head in the sand.

At this point there is no need to keep your discovery a secret because you already have all the intel you need on the A.

Just remember that NC is not a condition of Plan A. Plan A places no obligation on the wayward. And remember, he may just be trying to push your buttons. I think your H has a self-destructive streak. If he got caught, it is because he wanted to get caught.

I guess in your place I would simply and quietly state to WH that I found the phone and that I know he is still lying and that it hurts me very much. No DJ, no outburst. Simply state your feelings. You have a right to those and telling WH is not breaking Plan A.

The DDs and are are going into Khobar now to buy materials so we can start making Halloween decorations.