Hi Todd, numbers may be exact but can you cozy up to numbers? Can you engage in recreation with them? Can you meet your top 5 ENs with numbers?

But is "honesty" an Emotional Need?

Hi Myrta, openness is & I think that encompasses honesty.

No, but I also cannot cozy up to words or letters. Or talk to them. Okay, I can talk to them I admit. Recreation? I once played pitch with the number 2. Can I meet my top 5 EN's with numbers? No, but then again, I cannot with letters or words.

I didn't realize that honesty was an EN. That being the case, I hereby make it my number one EN. Wait, on second thought, number two.

Why is Todd's top EN's to go to SF?

I am sorry but honesty is not an EN. Honesty does not make me happy other than dishonesty makes me unhappy. I won't tolerate dishonesty but I don't expect that I will be happy not encountering it.

I do intend to give gemela an opportunity. I agree she is in a difficult situation and one that I never expected. I loved her so much simply because she was my wife. When she chose to stop being my wife and then continued that behavior post Dday, it has really taken a toll. She took away my primal EN.

Gemela has the advantage in that I made her a vow that I intend to honor until she makes that totally impossible. So she has to be given the opportunity. These past two weeks have been revelational to me. While that is all good, I am now less optimistic than I ever have been. I need my optimism back.

Someone said that the one who wants the relationship the least is the one in control. Gemela has placed herself in that position in spite of all my best efforts. In my mind, I am divorced. It is going to take a huge effort to get myself back mentally. That is what I am working on. I realize I need to be so careful. I know now that I cannot DJ or LB not to protect gemela but to protect me. It would be so easy to walk away from this right now. I can't let myself do that. I have to think of trying to keep the family together for the sake of the DDs.

In one respect this is a good thing. I am no longer even thinking about trying to recover the M. I am only thinking about trying to build a new one. That does take two. Gemela will have to make some fundamental changes and so will I.

One thing I have thought about is that gemela has never gotten up to make me breakfast. Sure she has made me breakfast sometimes on the weekend but I usually have to wait until 10:00AM to get it and, by that time, I have usually already eaten something.

I also want her to take over the finances. I have tried this many times with no success but now I have to insist. Maybe she will buy fewer shoes.

Now I feel like Maverick right after he pulled himself out of the flat spin.

"talk to me Goose - talk to me".

This thread has been extremely helpful. Thanks to everyone for all your great input. Well, except for the raisnettes. That wasn't very helpful. Worst part is I gained two pounds trying to be happy with them.

Lunamare,

I forgot to mention - when you go to SF, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair.

Being open, and honest especially after an affair is really important. But I still dont consider that an EN.

After Stanley found out about the A, his number one need was SF. Its still very important for him, but not with the desperation or need of before.

My husband and I agree that when an EN is lacking, that one rises higher in the EN list until such time that it is met. Maybe Gemela did a good job of meeting most of your most important emotional needs. If the EN that is lacking is the need for SF, then that EN becomes a top need...until that EN is met to such an extent that you feel satiated...etc etc...

Maybe she seemed to admire the OM more than you during her A. Did you feel like your need for admiration was lacking during her A and since? I would think so. Or like Mryta said, you are one of those men that is easy to please.

Well after much struggle, I think I have found my number one EN. It is/was intimacy. I still remember post Dday that this is what I felt most violated about - the lost intimacy. The things that only two people shared and then I felt like I was the one outside (with good reason).

I have always always given gemela admiration. I think her need was much more fundamental than that. It wasn't that she lacked it from me - it just wasn't enough for her. I don't know. I do think she is an admiration junkie.

For me, I rate affection higher than SF. I miss affection more than I miss SF.

OTOH, it doesn't take much to keep me happy. After my dabble in philosophy years ago, I decided to alway trying to enjoy whatever I was doing than to try to do that which I enjoyed. I love to play golf. If you told me I could never play again, I wouldn't miss it. In fact I have to drive by the course at least twice a day. It is pretty to look at but I realize I can't play because of the DDs. It doesn't bother me. They need me to be with them.

But I will always regret that gemela gave away our intimacy.

Yes Pio...thats something horrible to try to overcome. The intimacy that only two people should share, not three. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

That's what hurts me the most too.

Well stph20 DID show up after all.

Now stph20 because I don't want to read your entire thread please tell me why you want to keep WH confused. What is your goal in that? As I mentioned, it is counterintuitive.

BTW you will find that ToddAC maintains himself confused but he doesn't have any outside influences helping him.

What is the benefit of confusing WH?

Hola,

Hi stph20, Pio thinks this is his thread but don't pay to much attention to that, he's confused.

Now, Todd is not confused, he loves to confuse us.

Here is the EN list:

Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration

Not trying to gain any sympathy here but I did not have the best of childhoods. I am sure I have related some of that in the past so won't dwell on it here. My father dies when I was 4 but I don't remember him. I had an abusive stepfather for a few years who destroyed what little remained of our family. I cannot remember much of the things he did to me. My sister remembers and for some unexplained reason felt compelled to try to remind me when I visited her last. I simply prefer denial. But the fact is that it has always been difficult for me to trust people to any great extent. There are a few I do trust - very few. They are people I would give my life for without hesitation. So the intimacy of M was sacred to me. Being able to trust in gemela and open myself completely to her was a gift.

Maybe this is why I am struggling so much now. The loss of love is behind me. The pain of betrayal is behind me. Now she will soon be coming back and I may be denied the one thing I truly value for the rest of my life.

Oh don't mind me. I am just talking out loud and being way too melodramatic.

So the question on my plate is how to re-establish intimacy with gemela. That is going to take a VERY long time. For one thing, she has proven that trust in her is misplaced.

If we do try to follow the R path, I expect it will be a long road. Much of that depends on her too. AFAIK she has been studying LNPDA (TRLT in Spanish). Maybe that has made a difference.

I am thinking complete NC, radical honesty and transparency are good first steps.

I've been here off and on reading...if you go back to my thread I tried to explain myself better. But I don't know what I'm doing.

My thought process is this: he is deadset on getting a divorce. BUT, if/when we have sex, it confuses him and he realizes that maybe he doesn't really know what he wants. So, if we keep seeing each other, he can see my Plan A, since this is really the only way he can see it in action, because when we do get together, we actually spend time together, not just sex and going home, even though we aren't going out and doing things or whatever.

I know my thread is long and you don't want to read it all, but if you did, you will find I am a VERY confused BS.

Link to the EN article here on MB

Okay we do have ground rules:

1) if believer is around we have to talk about politics unless KiwiJ is around also in which case we still have to talk about politics but in subtle ways.

2) if KiwiJ is posting, then under no circumstances are we allowed to talk about infidelity until she logs off. She considers it thread-jacking which we all agree is rude.



Really? Athens, Georgia the music capital of the world?

BTW, have the English English gotten rid of "capitol"? We Americans still have that word and it is very confusing.