Well I finally caved. I hired a gardener to trim the rest of the palm tree. For 50 riyals, it is money well spent.

BTW stph20, you need to understand that most of us are not in your time zone. In ToddAC's case it doesn't really matter because he only sleeps 42 minutes a day (on a good day).

I was just thinking. Why is it that KiwiJ is the only one who has guidelines on MY thread? Hardly seems fair. OTOH, it reminds me a bit of my marriage. Could it be me that is the problem?

What guidelines? I don't see no stinkin' guidelines.

me either.

Pio, do you have a Thread?!

Where? Can we see it?


Todd,

No tequila for me. I haven't told BF that I finished the bottle he bought, gulp.

Where did you guys learn to respect me? Been talking to gemela? Don't worry - I'm used to it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Is that from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre or Blazing Saddles?

Careful - it's a trick question.

Both and more.

Before I read through the whole thread I wanted to say something about Pio's intimacy issue.

This was exactly the problem in my marriage. Due to FOO issues I was largely unaware ex had huge emotional intimacy issues. I didn't recognize that or understand what to do for him. It was the central issue from which all others spun around.

For ex the only way in which he could be intimate was physically. I needed conversation, affection, companionship in order to want physical intimacy with him. Caused HUGE problems neither one of us understood. Coming here & seeing an IC was what helped me understand the dynamics at work in out problems. ex refused to acknowledge he had intimacy problems but whereever you go there you are so I expect this problem will haunt him.

Briefly (too late) ex's father is an alcoholic, mostly recovering but sometimes on & off. Mother was an enabler & a closet alcoholic. Both parents were cold & emotionally distant. ex did not think this had any affect on his home life or his development.

Pio , you're WAY ahead of the game to recognize these things about yourself.

I posted before asking the question how would G have to change in order for you to have the partner you want & if she was capable of that kind of change. I know in my case ex was unable to see he needed to make changes to have a better marriage. I wonder if G is in a similar frame of mind.

Before y'all jump on my for DJ, or placing too much blame on ex & his inability to emotionally attach read this: In the 21 years we were married ex did not call me by name or use an endearment when talking to me. If he needed to talk to me he would come to me. It took me years to provide my name when he introduced me to someone instead of just referring to me as his W.

In MCing I asked why he couldn't/wouldn/t call me by name. He said he didn't want to call me by his old GF's name; the one he had two years before we married.

VERY sweet picture of Pio & Todd! Gotta go, be back later.

nams,

I am not sure we are talking about the same thing when we say intimacy. I am not talking SF. I am talking about that special bond that only two people share. I am talking about those secrets that nobody else on earth knows. I am talking about that special trust that you place in another person because you know they will care for you no matter what. I am talking about all those things that I knew about gemela that nobody else would ever know and her about me. That is the intimacy I have lost and, as Myrta said, it is gone forever.

Yes I do have problems opening up to the general public but I don't believe I ever had that problem with gemela. I also have a very few close friends that I am completely open with.

I think Myrta is right. What made me happy was simply being married to gemela. It would be far easier if I had as my top EN's things that she could easily fill. SF? Shag day and night. Problem solved. Conversation? Chat all night long. I think I have a fundamentally serious problem now. What it is I need, I can never ever have. I have the wrong EN's. So, to have a chance at a successful marriage, I am going to have to make significant changes in what I want a marriage to be.

I have no clue whether gemela is capable of change or if she even feels the need. Those are her issues. As bigger is so fond of saying, we may be walking on parallel paths but we are not walking on the same path. My fear is that I won't be able to sacrifice this lost EN for something that gemela CAN fulfill. I am truly worried about that.

She gave away the only thing I ever really cared about and we can never have it back. That is a problem.

Long story short - what I am talking about is exactly like the dialogue that Robin Williams won his Academt Award for in Good Will Hunting when talking about his wife.

We are talking about the exact same kind of intimacy Pio. I was the kind I was capable of which is one thing I think attracted ex to me. A problem was he felt I could give him tahat same ability simply by my having the capability. He desperatey wanted to have that type of intimacy but could not/would not be open enough to share himself that way with me.

REALLY got to go.

Pio===You have to be realistic too in respect to your marriage and Gemela. I think your expectations when you got married to Gemela where set way too high. Because of you being abused when young ,being an orphan,etc, you put Gemela in this pedestal that she was above anything negative or bad towards you. You thought that she was flawless, when she was just human.

Yes, you did lose what you value most, but you could still build a good solid marriage, with real expectations from a human being. YOu have faults , and so does she., She, hopefully, has learned from hers, and when she comes back she can show you that she really means this.

You thought that when you got married to her, everything was going to be perfect forever and ever. We all think that, but things affect us thru life . Gemela, obviously has some serious issues too from childhood, I have them too. And even if you thought she was different....flawless....well, she was not. She has issues, she is young, she was confused. Maybe she has changed for the better, or maybe she is still the same.But.....you have to see her before you and make that assesment . You know her better, probably, than she knows herself, or even her parents.

I know Myrta. I know. If gemela puts out some effort, we might survive. I am open minded.

Good <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for your advice Pio and bigkahuna. I'll try to address most of what you've told me.

I didn't realize that I was being verbally abusive to WH, but I guess I was. The truth is, neither one of us has respected each other the way we should have. That's part of my plan A. I did read SAA, but I need to read it again so I can be sure I fully understand.

The only thing WH has really told me about why he had the A is that OW has a "bubbly personality". I guess I lost that and that makes him happy. MIL met her and says she's very immature for her age.

I know that WH is tired of all the fighting and bickering. As soon as he told me that he wanted a D, that all stopped. He told me he wanted a D before I discovered the A. I realize now that my arguing with him was part of the depression. I'm back on AD's and it's really helping to keep the edge off all the stress. Neither one of knew how to handle stress though. I would confront him about a problem, he would go off the deep end and we would start arguing. So then I had to deal with us yelling at each other, and the problem at hand. I just didn't know how to do it effectively. And he doesn't trust that I've learned. He thinks everything will be fine for a couple of months and it'll all go back to the way things were. I don't know if plan A will get him to trust in me or not. And I have to learn to trust him again too, if he wants to come home.

He knows about my appointment with my lawyer. He also knows that I don't know if I'm going to file for D or not.

I do know the 5 stages of grief and I don't know why I'm not mad either. No one does. I think the hurt I feel is more overpowering than the anger could be. I do have moments when I think "I cannot believe he did this to me. What gave him the right to cheat, not talk to me about what was going on in his head and think this is all alright?!?" And that kind of pi**es me off, but I'm not "take a baseball bat to his truck" mad like I thought I would be.

He was my absolute best friend and I thought I was his. He took that away from me and that makes me really sad. I also think the reason for the A is more important to me than the actual A. That's what I want to work on and fix.

Some days are better than others in dealing with this. Sometimes I just deal with it and other days, I'm totally confused and just want him to come home, get his head out of his fog and talk to me. You may have read that I'm an impatient person... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know it seems like I did a lot LBing WH in my last post, but I don't say these things to him. I let it all out here so I don't have to LB him. I don't want to do that (it just makes OW look better, thank you MelodyLane!).

But I'm also getting resentful that he's the one who f***** up and I'm the one working my a** off to save my M! How is that fair! He should be the one begging my forgiveness and wanting to come home and work on our M, not me begging him to work on it (I used to beg, I don't anymore, I accept whatever it is he says).

Is this a normal feeling? Does anyone else feel this way?

Well...just got caught up....must admit....this was a particularly busy night\day on this thread....while I was getting ma 'beauty' sleep.

...so...don't blame me if my post is toooooo long!



Cinderella...would you know if your foolie spray would work on viruses, worms, trojans, and horses by any chance?



...unless, Todd....your intention was to 'confuse' BigK...but I think he's too smart for that...he's going to catch on...sooner or LATER! LOL. (BigK....don't know much about you.....other than that you live in Australia...but I do find your posts 'insightful', to say the least, and hope that my above comments will not be taken as 'disrespectful' because I do respect you very very much!)

Todd, how do you cuddle up to number?

OH....I see Nams beat me to it! ...that's what happens when one gets behind about 10 pages....

Hi Nams,



NOOOOT at all....been too busy with my Trojan!

...and I think 'pissy' better applies to Kiwi.....in consecutive posts a few pages back...she was 'LMAOPMP'
...and do not hesitate to ask Kiwi what it means if you don't know... LOL.



Pio...that's why I think somewhere...Harley says that...bottom line....it will be up to the BS whether or not the M will have a go at R.... you have already 'earned' your right for 'flight' because G has given you all the reasons to..... but you can also choose to try to climb your personal mount Everest.... and whatever you choose....we will be right behind you.....



Right on...MA MAN!



Will do, Pio....and will go braless and singing this tune (but I will not get 'high'...was never into that!):

When the moon is in the Seventh House
and Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius
The age of Aquarius
Aquarius! Aquarius!

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revelation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius! Aquarius!

When the moon is in the Seventh House
and Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius
The age of Aquarius
Aquarius! Aquarius!

As our hearts go beating through the night
We dance unto the dawn of day
To be the bearers of the water
Our light will lead the way

We are the spirit of the age of Aquarius
The age of Aquarius
Aquarius! Aquarius!

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
Angelic illumination
Rising fiery constellation
Travelling our starry courses
Guided by the cosmic forces
Oh, care for us; Aquarius



Speaking my language, Pio....which is why....NC with OP is the 'dealbreaker' for me.....besides the fact that M is not 'recoverable' without it.....



Now, Pio...this I don't understand....why couldn't you play once in a while? Remember....you need to look after your DDs...but also their dad....so that he can take of his DDs!

....don't think exfoliating your feet does the trick, either.

Todd,



This sounds like a good sign to me...glad to see you didn't start arguing with her...stick to your boundaries....she needs to consider them non-negotiable....up to her whether or not she chooses to respect them, or not.... and consequently, whether or not, you will consider R.....



Like I was telling Pio....bottom line...it may be up to the BS whether or even attempt will be made for R!



...that's why decisions are best to not be based solely on EMOTIONS! They are like the wind....



Given that I am in PLAN B.....this is not a top priority in my list of 'things to do'....but I guess, eventually, I will have to sit down and decide...for the time being.....I will say all ten of them..... and the no. 1, given that I am BS, is 'exclusivity' in a relationship.....and to do whatever it takes to show it.....

stph,



...nobody will force you to, either....being part of this thread, believe it or not, is on a voluntary basis!




Kiwi...does your DD know you are letting 'others' read her email? ...would she mind if she knew? I find this a bit 'touchy'.



Todd...need to straighten this out..... I live in Quebec....which like France, is francophone land, but it is not FRANCE....never lived there (although I did visit it....I liked it!)

...and what exactly do you hold against France the most? ....since it was before your DS's French GF...that wouldn't be it....although right off the bat, it made you 'hostile' material for her...which she obviously did not overcome. (....and I think I may regret asking the question!)



stph20....Larousse is out to confuse you! ...she's just trying out her French on you. LOL.



BigK....no need to get your lecture notes out....Pio seems to have done a good job of summarizing it!

....big lesson to learn for us BS!....OOOOOUUUUUCHHHHHH that hurts!

Todd,

it should....it's the name of French dictionary that was on her shelf at the time she needed to think of a poster name.... if my memory serves me right?



Kiwi...I suppose you know that it's never too late...if it will make you 'feel' smarter!

Alright....I think I will stop here....we both need a break....and actually....I am going for lunch!

See you later, alligator(s)!

It can take a while for the anger to hit. Maybe months. I think right now you are in such panic mode that you don't have time to be angry. You also have some mistaken ideas about what Plan A is for in that it cannot make WH fall in love with you. In fact, your Plan A can do nothing as long as OW is in the picture.

Begging at first is natural. It is part of the bargaining stage of grief. The stages don't always come in the same order. Sometimes stages overlap.

Unfortunately Plan A is all your responsibility. It is not easy and not all can do it. If you are successful in recovering your M, it will have been worth it.

stph20,

What is your greatest fear at this moment?