Definitely

curly17 = 38764

Could you reach an agreement with her to not talk about difficult topics during your 'dates'?

I can see she seems not only fogged but also very settled in her ideas. Hopefully when you two grow into a re-relationship she would agree to leave the past in the past.

I have the impression you are very capable of not keeping mentioning the affair once you decide to jump completely into the marriage recovery. Maybe in the future she gets to understand why exposure is necesarely if not you could negotiate, without apologising for exposure, you negotiate with her not to mention the affair if she doesn't mention exposure.

The four things Harley says that a couple should be doing during the weekly 15 hours of undivided attention are:
Affection
Talking intimate to each other
Entretainment companionship
SF



Great, now just don't give her all your romaticism at once, give her or show just a little bit that keep her wishing more. Instead of many flowers maybe just one, very pretty but wrapped simple. One kiss in the lips, barely touching her lips, hold her waist barely and then let it go. Make her crazy for you. By now she must have found out that must men are not as romantic as you.



Could it be that your wife has a comunication need bigger than you and she feels that need with her relatives and friends?
Do you think you could talk with her more, chit chat more?

Sometimes we women, or at least my younger and sister and I preffer to chat with each other because we can talk as women, lol, and sometimes her husband doesn't understand her need to discuss many irrelevants issues and sometimes he tries to find solutions when she just wants to share some thoughts. I guess you know all that. If you can listen to her when needs to chit chat, she may start to feel closer to you, you start to be her budy too, a friend that won't judge her or offer her a solution, just listen to her.

She mentioned the house in the Golf Club. Don't objet to discuss the topic with her, in fact paint a very positive picture but don't take any practical action yet.

::::::

The white fellow is in fact very unique in birds and owls, it's an 'albino', you know? like this condition in very white people, lol, no, no Swedens. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Pio, do you think she may be trying to get help?

Maybe if she feels we muck her she won't open up and get some support that may could help her?

I suspect she may not be in the 'mood' to take your always clever humor with a grain of salt right now.

I'm very happy to read that you and G worked together bookig her flight, sounds very promising, I hope things really get better before maid ends DD's hands with that brillo thing.
Seriously I feel G may be happyliy surprised that you take so good care of DD and that you are a devoted father. She seemed to need that reassurance in some of her old posts.

My WW is not a reasonable person. She is not one to reach agreements. She is like her family which is extremely combative. They will argue when there is nothing to argue about. It is a bloodsport to them. When we “discuss” things, I remain very calm. She immediately gets excited and starts raising her voice. I let her say her part and then I begin to say mine. She interrupts me within a few words and argues. I have two choices at this point: either continue with a screaming match which has much less appeal to me than to her, or shut down and she will finally wind down. How do you reason with someone like this and reach an agreement?


I never mention the affair anymore unless she brings up exposure. I am tired to talking about her A to her because I hate all the lies. Did the fact that she had SF with OM bother me? Yes. Emotional intimacy with OM? Yes. Shared secrets with OM? Yes. But it all pales in comparison to the way I feel about the lies and deceit, especially the fact that she used our sons as pawns to further and justify her lewd ambitions. I will be honest. I do not forgive easily especially for such a fundamental transgression. I am working on it every day but nothing thus far. She knows this about me and constantly says that she knows I will never forgive her. I also harbor ill will towards OM of huge proportions. I work every day to keep this anger in check but thus far to no avail. I grew up in a tough neighborhood. We are all benefactors or victims of our childhood environments. One thing I was taught was you never let someone get by with doing something to you. It is very difficult for me to shed those teachings.

I will talk to WW about the 15 hours per week issue. How do you spend 15 hours with a spouse who does the following:

1. She is gone to work, including lunch and commute for ten hours per day;
2. She talks on the phone 2-3 hours per day when she gets home;
3. She drinks excessively. Let me define that. A bottle of wine per night;
4. She is addicted to television which she denies;
5. As for SF, she is currently in menopause and her SF drive has waned. Mine is still like an eighteen year olds. I must have a hormone imbalance or something but she is happy with weekends only while I could engage in SF three times per day every day. How do I reconcile those differences?

You know what is so weird? I never realized how many issues I had with her until after DD. If DD represents death in some way, I suppose death has a way of making you think about your life.


Well, apparently men in affairs are very romantic, at least that is what I have read. I don’t worry about OM in that regard or in the SF regard. I am very confident in that area. My WW and I have enjoyed a wonderful SF life together. She is very passionate and this greatly appeals to me.

Larousse, when I say I am romantic, trust me, I am romantic. I had a good idea what it means. I spend a lot of time thinking of little gestures, hugs, kisses, neck kisses, etc. It comes naturally to me for some reason. Odd when you consider my background. Here is a small example. I love foreplay. She does too obviously but I like long and drawn out foreplay. This is not always practical I realize, but when it is, I try to take advantage. How can I say this? She heats up very quickly. While I think I am just getting started, she is on fire like a stack of straw. I guess I shouldn’t complain but there is no discussing this issue. She is just that way and she wouldn’t be able to change it and I wouldn’t expect her to.


Yes, men are fixers. I am guilty of that. One day WW was complaining about work and I offered some feedback and helpful suggestions. She said: you are always trying to fix things, I want somebody to talk to. Well, she had just watched the sissy John Gray on Oprah and he said this very thing. She had never brought it up before. Again, her outlook and opinions are shaped by others too much of the time. This brings me to another point: is it unreasonable to insist that she have no friends who are not friends of the marriage? Her best friend has been trying to get WW to D me for over twenty years. She wants WW to join her club of misery. Her BF deserted her family years ago and is an alcoholic.

She doesn’t want conversation BTW; she wants gossip and I hate gossip. Plus I never have any. She will talk to one sister and they will spend hours talking about the other sister. Then WW will talk to the other sister and they will talk about the first sister. We used to walk together after I got home from work. Every day, for the entire walk, WW would go on and on and on about an argument with her sister. I told her repeatedly that I don’t walk with her to hear gossip about her sister or for her to put her sister down. She would never stop. I quit walking with her and never will again but it will continue where it left off. No, I think the solution lies with WW. She needs to lessen her time on the phone. I should say it goes beyond the phone as well. There is one sister who also abandoned her family and is an alcoholic. She is miserable and does her best to make WW miserable. WW will meet her just about anytime and anywhere that her sister wants. One day, we were having a great discussion about our M after DD. It was our best day thus far and I felt good about things. The phone rang and WW jumped up and ran to get the phone. It was her sister. They talked for 2.5 hours. When WW got off the phone, I asked her why she ran to get the phone when we were having such a great discussion. She said she thought we were finished. I was in mid-sentence when the phone rang. Conclusion: she is addicted to the phone. Then there is her cell phone. Every single month, she talks on her cell for 1,500 minutes or so. That is 25 hours, almost an hour per day, and that is in addition to the home phone time.


When I was still living at home, this was an important ingredient of Plan A. I continue to do this now. I will take no action however until I again fall in love with her again, if I do, and she has agreed to some basic conditions going forward.




Well, I am half German and half English so I am very light in complexion. Does that make me an albino? I just think the white owl is unusual (me) and prettier than the other one (me). And smarter too (me). lol

Hello everybody,

Stph20,

hang in there...lots of good advice already given to you. You are not alone; you'll see by the posts that we all have our good moments/hours/days and bad. Sometimes they change so frequently you think you are crazy but that is normal...you adjust and you use diversion, meditation, humor, whatever you can find that works to calm you and take your mind off of what your spouse is doing/thinking/planning etc.

Don't dwell on the kid thing now, you are in no position to be adding stress to your life. There is never a perfect time but try to get back some stability and security. One of the strongest recommendations I can make is that you get your marriage to where you want it before taking the kid plunge. Develop a foundation of intimacy, companionship, love, trust, fun...make memories you can look back on when times get stressed with the kids...something you can look forward to continuing in smaller episodes once the kids arrive. You need time to grow and mature as a couple. I speak from experience...also I didn't even start having kids till I was 30 and having the extra maturity and patience has benefited myself and kids <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

BK...you remind me of a sensei or a warm teddy bear...maybe a combo...I'm waiting to hear you conclude with "grasshopper" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

ToddAC,
Sounds like your wife is missing out big time...wish I had to contend with her problem of living with you...I could even deal with all the # craziness if I had the rest of the package...should I call her and tell her what's she is missing? Maybe she'll listen if it's by phone???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Pio,
Quite the turn around...never saw it coming...neither will G...you'll blow her out of the water...does she like surprises?

KiwiJ.,
Can't see you involved in a fight unless it's verbal...have you ever engaged in a physical altercation? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Nams,
I see what you are saying and prior to reading the post had already asked him if there was anyway he could just leave....

this led to all kinds of panic by him...20+ attempts to call me etc. Basically what he said was that he was willing to just focus on getting our business aspects together so that by spring we could just make a clean break and bury the M...

I asked for some clarification based on his verbage...

He told me he wished I had someone else and would even watch the kids if I found someone I was interested in...I asked why...and then told him I felt it was so that he could avoid taking responsibility...told him I wanted to find the man I married...he said it hurt that I felt he wasn't that man...I told him I would go to great lengths to find that man and help him find his way home...he said that I could say what I wanted but he knew I could never forgive him for the past 10yr...I specified that with openess, honesty, no more OWs and no more lies I could start from scratch and recreate a new and better M...we talked later but never referred to any of this exchange only kid stuff...

I have no other alternative except to try and live amiably until we can get our business life on track...I could end up seriously extinguishing any ember but unless something gives I'm gonna have to ride the waves. I have also lived through this before in M#1 but no kids involved so much different...you are correct though...H#1 and I have not seen or spoken for over 10yrs...no regrets though...you really get true colors when the heat is up that high

Time for Soccer...

Thanks for the reply, Myrta.

Todd...I see...Fransay hits a 'spot'!



Now..I might be missing something....Dru...but why not just say 'I am sorry...we will not be able to help with accomodation'? Although I must admit...Todd has some very imaginative ideas!

BigK,



....I was just teasing Todd.... Never in a million years would I think that of you! LOL (....even if you do live in Australia!) LOL



...if not...it will create false expectations....with... resentement right behind! ...these are 'killers' in any relationship...

For me, knowing for a fact that there are people like Myrta, BigK and all the others that have survived an A.....means it's POSSIBLE...if you want it...if they can do it.....it's DOABLE... IF one is prepared to do the work!

Pio...if you allow G. to see your new optimistic attitude and enthusiasm, it will make all the difference... and I wouldn't be surprised that she will WANT to join in to work WITH you on new M.

Maybe communication via phone is the key. But caution, you would have to gossip for most of the conversation. You can never go wrong talking about her oldest sister and there is plenty of material. And if you don't speak Spanish, you would need to learn because the phone conversations are half English and half Spanish. English when things are calm and Spanish when she gets excited. Hmm... I wonder why that is? lol



My gosh 2much, you have been at this for 10 years? Surely your are a saint, an angel. At a minimum, you have earned you way into heaven if anyone has. I would say I will see you there but WW assures me I won't make it. We'll see.

I understand that financially WH cannot move out now, but you are in for a some tough months. I am sure you know this. You are in limboland and his being there will be constant reminders. Try to find ways to stay busy without him as much as possible. And keep posting here; I think it will serve you well. Yes, both the serious and fun stuff.

I have skim read the last 3 pages. I've only read posts that are no more than 3 lines long. So, I agree Stph should be steph although I agree with Pio it may not mean steph at all. I also presume you mean mud slinging not mud wrestling.

And you didn't answer my pressing question from yesterday. Do you still have a moustache?

I have not had a moustache since I was 21 and that was with some long hair in those days. Unless you count milk moustaches.

Okay, I am domestically challenged and realize it. I am trying to make dinner. I have some left over roast pork that WW sent to me. Nothing quite like PR roast pork. Not sure what all she puts in it, but I know it marinates in the fridge for two days with lots of garlic and I think vinegar and other spices. Stinks up the entire fridge. Anyway, I have some carrots and want to bake a potato. I will bake it in the microwave. I eat the entire potato including the skin so I need to wash the potato. When I wash the potato, do I used plain water or do I use soap like Dawn? I will scrub it with a paper towel since I don't have a Fuller brush. And please hurry, I am hungry.

Just wash it, and be sure to poke holes so it doesn't explode.

Don't wash your potato with soap if you plan on eating it. rinse it really well with plain water and a paper towel. Enjoy your dinner.

OK, my turn since I haven't been here all day.

WH called me at work today livid. Our cell phones were restricted because of a stupid mistake I made paying the bill. Now, mind you, I lost my job in May and our bills fell behind and they are still behind and WH knows this.
So anyway, he's absolutely mad about this bill even though I had already taken care of it. So he yells at me and basically tells me I'm stupid and can't do elementary math. but he wants nothing to do with paying the bills. Figure that out. I don't do it well enough, but he doesn't want to do it. Anyway, he was supposed to come over tonight for dinner and he's still coming over to pick some stuff up, but told me not to bother with dinner, he's getting his stuff and getting out of here. Now this was about 5 hours ago, so there is a chance he could have calmed down, but I'm betting not.

What do I do when he comes over? Do I have dinner ready anyway and tell him he's welcome to eat with me, or do I not have dinner ready for him even though I want him to stay?

Explode? I do poke holes in it but I thought that was to dry it out. Hmm.. I think I will cook one without poking holes just to see it explode.

Thanks believer.

Thanks stef. It is cooking as we speak. Think 30 minutes to microwave a potato is long enough?

7 to 8 minutes should be plenty.

I'm so glad I don't live near you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

stef,

When he yells at you and calls you stupid what do you do? Did he engage in this kind of behavior before his A? Yelling at a woman and telling her she is stupid is despicable and disgusting. He needs to grow up and learn to be a gentleman, if that is even possible for him. This really makes me mad.




I would NOT have dinner ready. First of all, he doesn't deserve dinner. Second, he needs to learn that there are consequences for his actions and words. Besides, he didn't want dinner, let him have his way on this one, lol.

Why?

He didn't come right out and call me stupid, it was just verbal abuse due to his anger. I'm used to it. I used to argue and yell and abuse back, but I don't anymore. I just don't care. I tell him that I understand how's he feeling about the bills and I feel the same way and I'm sorry that I got us into this mess, but I'm doing the best I can to catch us up.