Hand cuffs hurt. You need to use a soft cloth for tying up.

bigK, you & I don't disagree about the wisdom of Harley's plan. But, I do believe motivation to try to recover a marriage is very important.

For me, when ex first announced he wanted to D I was motivated primarily by fear. Fear I wouldn't be able to provide for my boys, fear of having their male role model removed from a significant part of their lives, & fear of doing this all on my own. I don't think that allowed me to think clearly or to see the complete picture, not the future but what was going on at that moment.

Not that it mattered in the end but one needs to be motivated by desire to be with their spouse because they are the partner one wants to be with. IMO.

Just a quick posting this morning. Must do errands & get some actual work done for my future. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, not a nightowl unless it involves the alternative to handcuffs...in my dreams. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Enjoy your day/evening y'all!

Stph20,

I have been thinking about the advice you have been getting and, as I read it, I think everyone is pretty much saying the same thing. I think you get in a hurry to read it and don't always take time to digest it. So slow down just a little. Somebody said (sorry I don't remember who because there were about 300 posts in the last 24 hours) that you should work on Plan A and prepare for divorce. In your position that sounds a bit shocking but it is the truth of Plan A in a nutshell. You are doing most of the things of a decent Plan A without understanding why. That's okay. I did it for 5 or 6 months. You have stopped the bleeding. As a BS soon after Dday, that is about the best you can do and you have done far better than me.

What was being said to you about preparing for D? I think you are finally beginning to understand that you cannot MAKE your H fall in love with you. That didn't happen when you first met and it will never happen. He fell in love with you because he chose to. He can fall in love with you again if he chooses to. But all that is beyond your control. All you can control is you.

Shift gears: You accept that you did some things wrong in your M. Okay. You even think you know what some of those things were. Better. Obviously if you were to get divorced, those are not things you would want to repeat in a new relationship. So you fix them. Think of Plan A as trying to make yourself the most desirable, attractive, woman on the planet – for any man. You want to be the best YOU can be. To be quite honest, it is possible that you might end up being something that your WH doesn't want but you will be much better for yourself. And do you know what? You could even find that you don't want your H. Don't panic. I am only saying it is a remote possibility. So your Plan A is a conscious decision to work on yourself each and every day. Learn about relationship building. Learn about EN's. Learn all about the rules of protection because they will pay off in spades with any relationship you have in the future. Learn to respect whoever you are with. Learn to avoid LB's and DJ's. Not just for your WH but for anyone.

I used to work with an engineer who hated his manager. That is not uncommon. Most engineers seem to hate their managers and are convinced that the managers are useless wastes of space. They even teach this in engineering school at major universities. As it turned out, I knew the manager and, while he wasn't the brightest color in the rainbow, he was an effective manager. I used to listen to this engineer complain about his manager on a daily basis and did this for months. All it did was make me not like the engineer. So one day I called him into my office and told him that. I told him that it was a shame that he was such a talented engineer but nobody wanted to work with him because he was such a whiner. At the end of the day, nothing he could say or do would get this manager removed from his position. If he would change his attitude and be positive rather than be negative all the time, he would really gain peoples' respect. I was a bit harsh on him in my talk but I'm not the most polished person. I was just me. I really expected him to get mad. Instead he thanked me. He told me that nobody had ever sat him down and taken a personal interest and offered encouragement. Well he changed on a dime. Poor guy – he is now in senior management and he has to put up with a bunch of whiney engineers.

Okay now back to you. We can all be better people. We can all learn from our mistakes. Work on you. Make yourself better. If WH notices, fantastic. If he does not notice, you may end up divorced but you will still be better for it. Divorce is also not necessarily the end. There is little chance that your WH's relationship with OW will last very long.

I used to worry about whether gemela saw the changes I was implementing. At first I don't think she did. Then after a while, she noticed but she didn't trust the changes. She wanted to believe I would go back to my old self at the first opportunity. Why not? That helped justify the A in her mind. Somewhere along the way I stopped caring what gemela thought about me. That is where I am today. I am happier, healthier, have a wonderful relationship with my daughters and gemela can get stuffed for all I care. Okay yes I want her to come back to our family. But, if she does come back, she will be coming back to a new and improved me. That's not to say it is my way or the highway. I am not saying she has to come back on my terms (other than NC, honesty, etc.) – I am just saying she is going to come back to a new me. It may be that she decides she doesn't really like that new me. It could happen. If so, we divorce and I go on being a better me. Marriage is about compromise as well. I still may be willing to make additional changes if they are important to the relationship. But I bet I don't have to make too many major ones. If she comes back then I need to implement the rules of protection. I am going to ask BigK's help every step of the way.

I am expecting that we will have a new time where we will be getting to know each other all over again. Either one of us may decide that we don't care for the other. I don't know. I am not going to try to change to be what she wants. I am going to try to be what I want. I hope those two things coincide. Plan A is all about the BS. At first we think the Plan A is for the WS. Well in a way it is because the Plan A is for the marriage. But you have zero control over WH. He makes his own choices. If you do a great Plan A, there is a much higher likelihood that WH will come back to the M. But that is the result of Plan A rather than the objective. What I mean by that is that, with an objective, you stop once you achieve it.

Well I have been interrupted a dozen times while writing this so I am going to stop here because now I am lost.

I know what I wanted to add:

During all these past few months, my attitude toward or understanding of Plan A has changed considerably. But the actions of my Plan A have changed very little. So it is not super critical that you entirely grasp Plan A to make an effective one.

Well, when you leave little boys to their own devices....

I was almost out the door when this thought popped into my head.

Todd, you say you've decided to not buy the business or return to work. I have the perfect idea for you to keep yourself occupied. Become a manager of artists. We (many of us) desperately need someone to help do the stuff we are so bad at. Promoting ourselves & our work, finding the right places to sell, finding the audience who will appreciate & want to buy our work.

You can call it a hobby/helping out the poor & it can be done largely from your computer. You're the contact guy, the artrist is the one who goes out to meet the client once the contact has been made. This isn't done for free, of course, you get commission or an up front (small fee) plus commission.

Most artist have web sites with examples of their work so it's easy enough to have the work shown in an initial way.

Fabulous! What do you think?

Now I am out the door.

P.S. This thread had taken over too much of my brain space.

Toddac,

Let me get this straight. You are going to manage a group of artists, find places to sell them, send them out on jobs and collect a commission.

hmmmm...that sounds familiar...

Your name is a misnomer, Pio. You are far too good to be a blood sucking bug....

Brought it over here so you'd see it.

Thank you for the well wishes.

- Kimmy

Hi nams,

I was kidding when I said I wasn't going to buy the company. My hesitation is that if I get involved, it means I will need to travel to aggressively expand the marketing and penetration. I don't look forward to that part of it. We'll see. I now have forgotten what I said I would do instead, but I am certain it was a joke, but who knows. Depends on where my head was then. Plus that was so long ago, what yesterday, day before?

As for representing artists, I am not sure I know enough to do so. And I have attempted this before. I wrote to Monet (or was it Manet?), Rembrandt, Picasso, Wyeth and Michelangelo and none had the decency to respond. Artists are temperamental I suppose. But seriously, it is a good idea. I will talk to DS1 about the idea. He is a photographer and knows many artists so he should have an interesting take. Thank you.

Now don't shut this down too quickly. I already have you pictured driving a low rider Cadillac El Dorado, tiger with head bouncing in the back window sitting on purple shag carpet. You arrive. You step out in your open satin shirt, covered in bling, draped in a huge crushed velvet overcoat and wide brimmed hat, dark sunglasses.

I think this might actually work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So I would be pimping artists. Is that what you are saying?

Okay, all quiet. Fair warning: time for a poem or lyrics. Choose your poison.

Thanks for your post Pio.

As long as I'm doing a decent Plan A for now, I'm OK with that, it can only get better. I just don't want to mess it up. The only problem is, that while WH may see the changes, he doesn't trust the changes, much like gemela. He thinks it's a ploy to save the marriage and as soon as he comes home, it'll go back to the way things were. I want him to trust that the changes I'm making are permanant, not just a ploy. But, I can't worry about that yet...

I think what I meant about "making" him fall in love with me, is that I want to do everything I did 7 years ago, that made him fall in love me then. I know I can't control him or his feelings.

Something you said did finally click though: I was doing Plan A for myself and for WH. Now I understand that I'm doing it for myself and my marriage. And I think I might understand the difference. I know that whatever changes I make in myself are going to be permanant, whether it saves my current marriage or not. And I know that it will make me a better wife, if not to WH than to someone else (that thought hurts!!).

And believe it or not, I have thought about the possibility of not wanting my H back. It really scares me that I'm as OK as I am with him being gone and there's got to be something to me not being mad at him. I just don't know what to make of it.

But something struck me last night as I was talking to him and I told him this. I have realized that I'm OK here by myself and that's made me realize that I don't need him here, I don't need him in my life. I want him here, I want him in my life, as my H. And I think that knowledge will also make me a better wife. It's already made me a more secure person. Who knew that as soon as my H left me, I would gain confidence??? I must be totally screwed up in the head!

Okay but he's not the same person he was 7 years ago. Maybe he wants different things now?



We all have those feelings. What he did to you is horrible. It is natural to have those feelings.



Almost. I am glad that you have been able to see that difference. Just remember, you want H back in your life. You want WH to go to he!!. H and WH are not the same person. Try not to confuse them They look alot alike on the surface.



Actually I would go the other way. I would say you are thinking clearly for the first time in seven years. With that attitude, you will make a much more attractive wife.

As soon as I think I get it, you go and confuse me again!

How could he want different things now than he did then? It hasn't been that long ago. All he wants is a wife who doesn't b**** at him all the time and all the financial stress to go away. If he had those things, he would be a happy man. And I do know this because we talked about it before all this happened.

I'm starting to see that WH and H are 2 different people. Good twin and evil twin. I want the good twin back.


Awww, look at you being sweet!

How long have you guys been dealing with this? What has your emotional roller coaster been like?

You just don't know me well enough. I'm not capable.



Because we change and grow as we get older. We want different things. What did he want when he was a teenager? SF. What does he want now? No nagging. That's different all by itself. I'm sure other things have changed too.

Look, if the only thing he needs out of life is no nagging and no financial stress, is that what you really want as a H? That doesn't sound very interesting.

stef,

You do realize that your WH's affair is not your fault, right?

DD1 was really amazing in soccer tonight. I have never seen her play so well. She is improving so much. And the other coach forgot oranges for his team. Fortunately I had a bunch.

DD2's game was strange. When DD1 played in that division, there was a little bit of structure. Now it is chaos. DD2 had four goals scored on her but by a girl in 2nd grade who also shot from inside the line every time. I was standing in goal with DD2 to teach her how to move with the ball. I was afraid to let her go out to stop a ball because there were 25 girls all trying to kick it and nearly on the goal line. She came very close to getting kicked in the face twice. Well, her coach is not too happy with me. I ripped him a new you know what and told him I was reporting him on Saturday. It was way too dangerous for the girls to play that way and it was insane to let 2nd graders play with 4-6 year old girls. They let the older girl play on the team because her father wanted her to be on the same team as her younger sister so he wouldn't have to go to soccer three nights a week. This isn't over. I'm shutting this down first thing Saturday morning. I'm pissed. DD2 started to cry after the fourth goal and said it wasn't fair. To her credit, she stopped 4 legitimate shots on goal after that but that is when she almost got kicked. If she had gotten kicked, she would never play soccer again. I wouldn't blame her.

Sounds like the soccer league needs some rules.

You're a gentleman Todd.

Sports Dads. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Not you Pio, the other guy.

Gotta go.