I am exactly where you are.

I went to the bank this morning and closed both of our joint accounts and opened one in just my name. It may not sound like a big deal, but it was a little emotional. At the same time, it gave me strength, because I can be on my own and I'm going to show him that. Amazing the insight you get from a checking account, huh?

My anger management was similiar to yours...when he left the first time, I took all of our pictures off the walls and dropped them on the floor. Only one frame broke, but it was one of our wedding pictures. I put them back up when he came home and wanted to work it out, and when he moved out this time, I was calm enough to take them down and just put them in the closet. But it didn't hurt to look at them like it did the first time. Maybe the shock had worn off.

Are you in Plan B? How long have you been dealing with this?

I found strength I didn't even know I had, and truthfully, I still doubt that I have it.

You'll find your strength. Look in your heart. It's there, I promise.

stph,

If you haven't already, I encourage you to meet with an attorney in an attempt to understand your rights and obligations. Bigger, who is noticeably absent, likes to say to pray for sunshine but prepare for rain. So, while you continue Plan A, seeing an attorney can help protect you if you decide to go to Plan D. I did this but should have done it sooner. I learned some very interesting things.

I wrote you the longest most heartfelt and honest post...as luck would have it my server died...I had copied it but lost my entire connection and had to reboot...it was really long anyway.

To answer your questions. No plan B...tried to have him leave in June for plan B but refused to leave

Dealing with WS for 10 yr but was in denial and using hope as a plan for past 9.5 years...Mar 06 started a sequence of D-days since there are mult OWs not just a 1 A guy...likes the thrill of the hunt and moves on...plan A since Mar 06 but didn't do it right for first 3 months since I constantly asked Q's and was visibly hurt and upset...was in great position in late July and strong enough to make real move when involved in trauma with kids and have had a hard time garnering the strength and courage to face reality...

Somethings got to give and I'm thinking it will be my move that determines what ...wouldn't you eat cake all day too if you could? I am the human doormat and I need to start doing something about it whether H likes it or not...trying to get through my Liars book which is actually fantastic...I have nothing but time until spring so I need to get my act together, see a lawyer, make my own plan for D and press...

If a miracle happens btwn now and spring then perhaps I'll change course but for now I have my actions focused on D

H will have to do some backflips and chasing now...I have only one more day left in September Pio...then our deal is over and out!

I met with an attorney this past Wednesday. She advised me to get together with WH and get him to agree to certain things (like our house and alimony mainly) and have him sign it. Kind of like a contract. I'm not filing, but she's going to keep it in her file if/when he does file.

BUT, BigK grounded me from talking to him for a week, so we'll have to go over things later when my grounding is over!

OTOH, he thinks we have to be separated for 6 months before he can file. I just found out that he doesn't, he could file now, under different grounds, but I didn't tell him that. It just buys me more time.

But do you or WH want D? Has he said he wants to work on the M? So you still live together?

OK, I did the EN thing. It was hard to do it for him though, without siding with myself--I was the perfect wife, you know...oh wait, he cheated on me...never mind.

But this is what I come up with for WH to the best of my ability:

1)Recreational Companionship
2)Conversation
3)Sexual Fulfillment
4)Affection
5)An Attractive Spouse

So, what happens if, since I came up with this list, I do all of these things to the best of my ability, but I'm wrong? What if I'm doing the wrong thing in Plan A? Can that happen? Now, I'm freakin' out...why did I have to do this? He likes bubbly personalities, where on the list is that? It should be #1. I'm so confused...

And the first 2 of these, I can't even do!

I also went through my own EN's again:
1)Affection
2)Conversation
3)Sexual Fulfillment
4)Financial Support
5)Recreational Companionship

Can these change over time? How do you know when they do for either you or your spouse?

{{{{{{{2much}}}}}}}}}

It seems to me your H has a very deep seated character flaw that isn't going to change in a hurry, if at all. However, my MB friend Faithful Follower has faced what you're facing, complete with an OC. Her H is finally getting it. It's been a long, long struggle for FF but she's perservered. I've told her more times than I can count to kick him to the curb but she's made of very strong stuff, although she'd probably disagree with me on that. I think you are too.

2much, I think you're in a situation where you live with how he is (impossible I think, and not recommended) or give Pio's deal one more day then make a decision.

Stph, it's very hard to guess what someone else's needs are. It's from wrong guessing that you'll be trying to meet a need that your H may not even see himself as having. Try expanding on the needs, like I did. Then you'll see how much of a need they really are.

Yes, needs do change over time. For example, a mother with young kids probably puts family and domestic support at the top but as the kids grow older this need changes. If you haven't read His Needs Her Needs you should.

When I first came to MB I printed all the articles that were applicable to our sitch out and put them in a binder. You really do need to read all the articles on the main site. They're very good.

Thanks Kiwi

I do have a lot of the articles printed, I just to get them organized and really study them!

I just started freaking out while doing the quiz, because I don't really know what went through his head while we were together. He's a typical guy, he didn't want to talk about his feelings and his way of dealing with things, were to not deal with them, which left me in the dark, or dealing with stuff all by myself.

I'll give it my best shot.

OK Stef - Great you've done some work on identifying his needs. Plan A is meeting those needs as best you can. EXCEPT SF remember. The reason I don't want you talking relationships with him is it pisses him off and you can't do it without lovebusting him to death. Meet his needs as best you can. Make home a warm and inviting place. WHat does he like to do? Recreational Companionship? See if you can do it with him. Spend time with him having fun.

This is why I say your Plan A sucked and you are not ready for Plan B.

2Much - Faithful Follower posted a new thread outside of TKO to talk to you. Not sure if you knew. TT

Thanks, I had no idea...posted back...appreciate the heads up!

KiwiJ...thanks for hooking me up with FF. maybe she can give me some new view on things or personal advice since she may have more similiarities to my sitch...I keep bobbing but not sure how much before I begin circling the drain!

Right this minute I am in a good place, alone, sipping my wine, doing my work and just being me by my self...just feel like H missing out and I could be even happier if I was with someone who synergistically increased the fun and fulfillment factor exponentially...know what I mean?

Although I have not yet caught up with the thread...but I will soon....because my techie friend has managed to remove the 'trojan' from my home computer.....SIGH! It's good thing....was starting to get attached!

...am following 'Dancing with the Stars'.....this week I thought Mario and Karine's tango...although hit hard by the judges...was HOT HOT HOT!

2much,

I am glad you made the month and I bet you will be too. I know that your M has not been happy for YOU for quite some time. 13 years was it? Inertia is a powerful thing.

I'm still having a very hard time. I don't want to go into it because I committed to give WW an opportunity and I will stand by that. Is my life the best it could be right now? Certainly not. Will WW improve the quality of it? That is my turmoil. Can I ever be happy with her again? Let's see what her (our) vacation brings about.

If she comes back and takes the electric blanket off the bed without discussing it with me, I'll send her packing.

stph20,

Everyone suggests that you not try to analyze what your WH is thinking and that is sound advice. But there is something that you can be assured of and I just want to reiterate what BigK has said. In your WH's state of mind, even though you are not divorced, he has already left your M. All he wants is to be free of you. I am not saying that can't change. Plan A is for doing exactly that. Don't think ahead. Think about today. Today your WH wants everything but to be with you. So if you talk about your relationship or your M with him, it is actually painful for him. That is why R talk is so counterproductive to Plan A. By talking about the possibility of getting together, you push him further away. if believer is still around, she can explain it far better than I can.

Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that you nagged him. I don't know if you did or not but I need a word to use here. You are better not to confront. If he says he was not happy about your nagging, don't say "I don't nag any more - I have changed". First, he won't believe it and second, he feels like you are bargaining to get him back. Better approach is to say you are very sorry. Now you understand that your nagging created conflict and damaged your M and you hope that some day he can forgive you for that. The implication here is that you recognize your error, you are working to change it and that at some time in the future (he could well be divorced), you hope that he forgives.

You are not justifying the A. You are not accepting responsibility. You are not trying to trap him. You are opening the door and allowing him to leave.

This was hard for me to believe in for a very long time. I guess I got to the point where I had lost most all of my love for WW that I felt it didn't much matter. But by letting her go (pushing her out actually), I get the idea that she is no longer happy about not being part of the M. Believer may have single-handedly saved my M by pushing me so hard to take that attitude. Unfortunately I am no longer sure I want it saved. But that is my problem - not yours.

-----------------------------------------

I have 9 days to find my happy thought.

Last night the DDs were playing Mini Cooper racing in my room. I moved the race track there so that the maid would leave it alone. I spent half the day rewiring it to make the connections robust. I went over all the connections with a magnifying glass so the cars would keep going. Finally it was late and I sent the DDs to bed - or tried. DD2 went straight off. Once I tell her no Gameboys allowed in bed, she taps right out. DD1 was a different story. She sat outside my room in a snit. She said she wanted to play Mini Cooper still. I said she could today but not any more last night. She got angry and started to cry. I asked what she was upset about. She sadi she wanted to play. I asked if she wanted to call mommy today. She said she wanted to call right then. I told her we would try but that there was no guarantee mommy would be there because of the hour and, if not, we would call today. We called and SIL said that mommy had gone two days earlier to see her father and would be back Sunday night. Her father has no phone and I don't think he even has electricity. This upset DD1 more. She went back outside and sat in the hallway again in a snit. I carried her crying to her bed and tucked her in and asked if she wanted to say her prays and especially pray for mommy to be safe while traveling. Nothing. She stayed in bed but was crying terribly. So I left her there and went in my room and closed my door. About 10 minutes later I came back out and she had a pillow, blanket and teddy bear and was curled up outside my door. So I laid down with her and asked what she was upset about. She said she didn't know. She asked why I had come back out. I told her that I was worried about her but that she had been crying and angry when I left her in bed and I didn't want to fight with her. I thought that maybe by now she had calmed down and we could talk. She threw her arms around me and kissed me and told me how much she loved me. I promised her again that we would call mommy on Monday and said she could come sleep with me if she wanted to but that I was watching TV and it might bother her. She got in mommy's side of the bed and wouldn't go to sleep because she was watching TV so I turned it off and she went right out. She snored all night long.

I only say all this because I am not sure what I did right and what I did wrong. I did feel bad about leaving her in her room crying but she gets in these snits (not really a tantrum) and there is just no reasoning with her. She is a very stubborn girl.

My son used to have trouble staying out of my bed. Talked to the psychiatrist....ADD mom with an ADHD son....you need help early on.

Anyway, since this was a common thing at my house, our decision was that, I could cuddle w/ him, or his sister, in their bed at night if needed. Either child could come to my room and sleep. But they had to bring their own pillow and blanket and sleep on the floor. They could bring a sleep mat from preschool if they had one available. But, mommy needed to sleep well and that meant she needed her whole bed.

They agreed they wanted me to be happy the next day. That meant I had to sleep well. That meant I got the whole bed because they got their bed all to themselves.....

Now, occaisionally, they were allowed in - storms, bad dreams, things like that. But not often.

Now, you and your children are going through a really hard time. I think you did very well.

OK, maybe it's the late hour (for me) or maybe because I'm an emotional wreck, but you're story almost had me in tears!

You are such a good dad and you're DD's are lucky to have you there for them.

Thanks to you and Pio, the lightbulb went off tonight.
I should listen to you guys more often...
The only problem is that he has his guard up and won't go do things with me. He says we're separated, we shouldn't be doing things together. He just won't let me do anything with him. I told him the other night we could spend Sundays together, he didn't like that idea.
And the reason I put RC first is because of his stock car racing obsession. It really bothers him that I don't like it and never wanted to go with him. I knew he wished I would go and like it, but I didn't know how much it bothered him. Now I know and I've offered to go with him several times, but he says, too little, too late. He won't let me now.

How do I make home a warm and inviting place?

Sigh...what's a girl to do?

I generally will not allow them in and they know that. Sometimes DD1 tells me at night that she is afraid to go to sleep because she is afraid she will have nightmares. I tell her that if she has a nightmare, she can come in and get in bed with me. 9 times out of 10 she stays in her room. She hardly ever comes in after waking up in her room.

DD2 never has any problem at all - well, sometimes the neighbor's dog barks (¡pinche perra!) and wakes her up. The problem with DD2 is that she sleeps fitfully - she throws fits all night - and, if I let her in bed with me, she might break my ribs.

DDs are now showering completely on their own and doing a good job. They put on their own pajamas and mostly brush their own hair although I usually have to finish it.

So when WW comes back there will be no more:
1) assisted showers
2) getting them dressed for bed
3) cariñitos - prayers are fine but no cariñitos

I know those are things that are "bonding" things but the DDs need to start doing these kinds of things for themselves. They seem to enjoy it and it is so nice not having to fight with them to take showers.

Actually there will be a lot of changes when WW comes back. And that electric blanket had better stay on the bed. If she doesn't like it on her side, she can fold her half onto mine.

I despise gardening. Hate it. I like to cut grass but that's only because it involves machines that I can master and horsepower to cut things. Okay tree cutting is fun too because I can use my 3 Hp 16" chain saw. But gardening? Gag.

WW loves to garden. She loves having the prettiest garden in a 5 Km radius. She loves getting compliments on her garden. So I garden. I do it to be with WW. And I enjoy gardening.

Bottom line is that you have to learn to enjoy what you are doing rather than doing what you enjoy.

Things don't make you happy. Activities don't make you happy. You make you happy.

Spending time with your H should make you happy. if it doesn't, you need to figure out why. There are very few things I can't enjoy. Okay - I can't enjoy cricket or opera. No way. All I know about cricket is that one game takes three days and at the end, even if the Indians are ahead, the English remind them of some rule showing them that they lost. The only other thing I know about cricket is that if India plays Pakistan, alway bet on the Pakistanis.

I get most of your post, except how it's painful for him to talk about our M. I understand that it pisses him off and I've seen that, but this has been so easy for him, how is it painful, when he's so sure of what he wants and has already taken the first step to getting what he really wants, by moving out?