Well I said more like a kidnapping. LOL. It's more involved than just asking her. Why don't you contact them and get some details. Obviously they can't do anything against her will. I have no idea how it works in practice but my understanding is it works very well.

Thanks. I will call them Monday.

Todd - Melody Lane is a recovering alcoholic herself - I will see if she can get in here and also give you some info about it.

Thanks BigK. I have a lot of respect for Mel and I look forward to her wisdom.

I absolutely agree. I did use parts of the 180 plan on and off and, I think, to great effect. But I would never consider using any of the 180 plan until WH has committed to NC and then is stuck in withdrawal. A rock solid Plan A is a definite prerequisite.

I generally used the bits of the 180 plan I needed when NC was violated. Prior to NC, I think 180 is counter productive.

ToddAC,

The "kidnapping" can simply be confronting her in her own home. It is a surprise, however and escape should be difficult.

Holding my nose for the Aquanet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yeah - sorry Pio - I really should have asked for your permission before I invited Mel back in here.

LOL

What BigK. You think this is Pio's thread or something? Okay, so it is. Big f******* deal.

Well I like to let him THINK it's his thread. He doesn't seem to have much control over the stars though.

Lol. Yeah, much to his chagrin. I have done my part to keep the stars to a minimum, or in my case nonexistent, but heck, it persists. It is a testament to Pio. But then again, maybe I will stick my finger down my throat.

I have said this before. You guys show me just as much respect as gemela does. Why should I expect anything different? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I've been thinking a lot about the electric blanket. I know it makes me mad when she takes it off but I confess I never really POJA'ed putting it on in the first place. So maybe it is my fault.

I decided that I am going to leave the blanket on the bed but fold her half over onto my side. That seems fair.

I have a different issue over a new grill. We have an Arkla grill (HD made in USA) that was designed for gas that we bought in Dubai. The sun has taken its toll on the grill as it does on everything here. The plastic handle is long gone. Gas is hard to find here so I took out the burner and jets and converted it to charcoal when we arrived. It is not the prettiest grill in the world but it works.

There is one store we go into for electronics that also features a small display of Weber grills. WW always wants to buy a new Weber grill which, while new and pretty looking, won't last a month here. It is about $300 and simply not worth $30. I like my old grill just find. I want to use it until it rots away to dust. WW wants the new grill (like she looks at the old one all the time). I swear every time she goes over and looks at those grills, I just want to scream.

I'll compromise on the blanket but never on the grill.

You have to draw the line somewhere.

BTW, something KiwiJ said today has really busted me pretty hard.

Oops gotta go to work.

Sorry to do that. Seriously what hit me was KiwiJ did the night before PA day.

I have never spoken to WW about this but after going back and seeing when the cell phone calls started (first was about midnight I'm sure of the first night of the pA), I also looked at our LD records. For about 5 days up to the start of the phone calls, I saw multiple calls every day to her best friend in Dubai. Prior to that she talked to her maybe once a month or every other month. Suddenly there is the barrage of calls to best friend. The calls die. That night, first call to OM's cell phone. Then, after that up to 11 calls a day to said cell phone for months until I questioned the bill.

So I am sure WW was calling best friend to "get permission". I am guessing best friend told her no. That's why the calls to BF stopped so suddenly after they had started. I know BF. She is also a BS. She hates affairs.

Anyway, I know WW planned it well in advance. I've never said anything before now but KiwiJ's comment brought that back to me. It doesn't mean much other than to remind me how cold and calculating the (any) WW is during the A.

Hello family,

Yep, that is how I have come to view you all. I tell you stuff I wouldn't dare reveal to my blood family and nearest dearest friends...isn't that kinda strange but perfect at the same time? Anyway, I have to start by saying thanks for being here for me.

Todd - definitely get with AA on the "intervention" stuff; maybe you need to have a family mtg with an AA interventionist so that they can Q&A with all prior to any real action. At this point it would be a positive step in attempting to help your WW.

My philosophy, even with my WH since I still love him is that if at minimum he can deal with his personal demons and his addiction to OWs (which are based on his unresolved childhood issues) and recover from that I would be happy even if it didn't save our M. I just want WH to be able to love himself which is the crux of our issues...if you can't even love yourself, who can you love the way God intends for you to love? I don't think M R is possible until WH gets to this point anyway. I'm sure it is the same with your WW...if she can't treat her own body, mind, spirit with love, respect and truth she will never be able to do this with anyone else either. AA is the best chance for her now.

Pio-scarey for you with time closing in. Celebrate and spend these last days with DDs doing fun and memorable things...you both will cherish the memories you have created forever. DDs will look back and use these memories to comfort them in rough times and good times...they will become table talk in future holiday meals when DDs are grown. Make sure to finish this alone time with DDs with a bang. This will keep you busy enough during the downhill stretch.

Don't think about G's return. Let it just happen. Do what Larousse said and pay attention to how you act/react to G's words and actions. Set a trial timeframe like you set on me and let G prove/disprove with her own plan/actions. You should give her enough space to soar or hang herself. This will be crucial time for you to try and not LB and be warm and inviting and to allow her the opportunity to be a good wife and mom...it will be her choice to make that happen.

You will most likely encounter parenting conflicts since you have your routine with DDs...try and be a bit flexible. Often times when folks return from deployments the get pretty depressed when they return home and realize that their entire role was eliminated and the home ran successfully without them. The realize in some respects that they aren't a necessary part of the functioning of the family...they don't see themselves as being "needed". What they see is only superficial...they have missed the tears and sadness and struggles that have ensued to make the home function without them. Just keep this in mind.

Stph20,
Did you throw up? I never did but wish I had...I hate that lingering nausea and the elevator sensation that happens everytime you discover a new lie or indiscretion. Don't know if you had any extra weight you wanted to shed but the good news is that the infidelity diet is alarmingly effective. Why don't they advertise it???? I got rid of that extra 15 pounds that I could never lose after having the kids. You too can be svelte without even trying! See there is always a positive for every negative.

Have you heard from WH? Pio is right if A is still going on don't even try the 180...for my H it made his life even better yet...no questions, no M talk, all while I was cheerful and pleasant...he saw no consequences to his actions and this plan just enabled it even more. You have to wait for definite NC for this plan or use it after you have given Plan A serious time and effort. Plan A you share how the A is devastating you/family...you don't whine and cry but you frankly let the WS know each time something happens how it affects you..."When I saw you with OW I felt betrayed...I felt our M was violated and it broke my heart that you chose to spend your time with OW"

Kiwi,
Thanks for sharing the info...it helps

BK,
What's up?

Hi Nams and Larousse, you are both full of great advice. Thanks for input and humor

Gotta run to soccer tourney...DD1 is awesome and finals are today.

2much,

That is really good advise about your Plan A limits. People pounded that into me constantly. You don't criticize and LB the WS saying "that" is wrong or I can't believe you're doing "this", etc. But it is okay to say. You did "that" and it really makes ME feel..... It is okay to talk about your feelings but not criticize the WS's actions. Just talk about how they affect you. That is permitted in Plan A and is not a DJ or LB. It is okay that the WS knows he/she is devastating the BS.

Good morning All!

It's a rainy day here so we all spent extra time cozied up in bed.

Todd, me a great cook? Tee hee, don't think so. But I appreciate the compliment. I'm all about simplicity in cooking & I can't bake.

A word about how alcoholism affected ex's family: His father is a recovering alcoholic. Mostly successful but has relapsed a few times. His mother was an enabler & a closet alcoholic.

When our boys were small we spent lots of time with them. The mother & father separated (whole 'nother story, not dissimilar to my M break up) & the mother would sometimes have my oldest son stay over night. After one over night I asked son about what they did. He said grandma spent LOTS of time in the bathroom, she is a smoker also, & he talked about behavior that made it sound like she was drunk or at least doing too much drinking. This a week or so after she helped me bring the 3 boys to a DR. appointment at 1:00 in the afternoon during which it was clear she'd been drinking & the DR. brought it up to me.

ex & I compossed a letter saying we felt she had a drinking problem, said we would support her in any way we could. Until such time she took action we would not allow the boys to be alone with her.

Complete denial & RAGE. Over the following month both ex & I tried to find a way to keep a relationship with both her& the father. But the father said what ever mother wanted he would abide by. He's a weak man who desperately wanted his W back. The mother placed a good deal of blame on me& I was the first to go. Second she cut ex out from her life. He is their only living child. His brother died at 21 years old due to life long illness, my boy were their only grandchildren.

There is NO relationship between ex & his parents or between my boys & his parents. The mother has cut everyone except the H out of her life. This to allow her to drink & live the "life" she has created for herself.

Now, I do beleive there is a good dose of mental illness involved here, this makes me frightened for my boys & I do hope ex realizes & addresses this for his own mental health.

Much of this is centered around alocholism (some on the type of personality/character she has that allows her to deny) & the hold it has. ex's mother also functions in her way which is how she can deny she has a problem. Her rewritten history, the husband's enabling, all help to allow her to continue on.

Pio, I don't wonder why you're down & wondering why you're allowing WW to return to SA. I see it this way: You want to keep your family whole for the sake of your girls. At one time you felt such a bond with G you remember that & want that back, in different form perhaps but as strong.

The situation may not be exactly as you'd like it but that's to be expected because this is G's life too so control is something you don't have.

Seems to me you have a really good handle on what you need from G to create & new, better M. Can't do a whole lot more that that really. I think uncertainty always makes us uncomfortable & leaves us questioning & wondering.

I like 2much's advice about approaching G's behavior from the moment moving forward not from the past.

Hey Todd, do you know "Brilliant Disguise " by Bruce Springstein? One of my favorites or favourites for Kiwi. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm concerned about the care package I've sent you. Tell me if you think it will make it. I've included my crock pot along with the ingedients to the dinner I made last night; chicken, peas, corn, garlic, black beans & peach mango salsa, not chutney.

I've precooked it so that when it reaches you all you have to do is warm it up. Since I didn't want there to be too much condensation making the dish watery I've left the top off the crock pot.

I put it right side up in the box with instructions on the box to keep upright & to handle with care. I sent it third class because I thought that would slow down the handling & lessen the likelihood of tipping.

If it smells funny maybe you shouldn't eat it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hi larousse, I've heard back from my painter friend. She suggested you put the painting in the sun for a day, mold side to the sun, to kill the mold. Brush off the dry mold with a soft brush, use a mask. It's certainly cheaper than a restorer & less tramatic. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sinse I'm so clearly the only one here I'm headed to the studio to get some work done. Be back later.