Thank you Kiwi. I appreciate your believing me. And the point you made about how I post is exactly why I held back for this long. I guess Big K caught me in a weak moment this AM. I knew it would bring about a firestorm and I haven't been looking for support for my handling of my sitch. I know very well that it is not the best way to handle this, but as I have stated I have very good reasons for not doing this to my H. It hurts me as well to handle it in this fashion. If I felt I could do it according to the policy of radical honesty without causing distress to my H I would. He's had a lot to deal with and I just don't feel like I should hurt him in this manner.

I never intended to be combative or defensive. I was just responding to Big K's questions. He was very understanding. Perhaps that's why he is doing so well with his M. People make mistakes, it's humanity and we all have to live with mistakes that we or those close to us have made. i do not pretend to walk on water, I just want to minimize the hurt to my family and H.

I think I made it perfectly clear to you what my goal was in being here. It is no longer for me. It is because of my concern for others. If I am not wanted or needed then fine, I'll quit. I hate to see others hurt and felt I might have something valuable to contribute. Maybe not.

Todd, tell me this. If you had never known or suspected or noticed any difference in your wife's behavior, how do you know you would have been better off knowing? At this point you can only see it as a retrospective glimpse into what was going on. I'll bet you are probably more in tune and aware of your wife than my H is of me. That doesn't mean he loves me any less, he's just not quite as perceptive as you are. If you are all that you say you are, I cannot conceive of how your W could have possibly done this to you. I have to believe that you are all you say, I have no reason to doubt your veracity. Without a psychiatric diagnosis for your wife, there is absolutely no justification for her actions.

Yeah that's gotta be tough. A German dog seeing another dog whiter than herself. I recommend therapy.

FWIW, I do not believe that FC is here for advice. I think she is here to read but has never intended to solicit advice. (FWIW)

Your husband's perceptiveness is not the issue. The issue is honesty. He deserves to be told. All other rhetoric is meaningless.

When it finally dawned me me that my WW had been having an affair, the first thing I did was to attmpt to determine when it started. It was as a result of that process that I realized that her A had been going on for some time. I ignored the signs because I trusted my wife. When I did realize and accept that she was having an affair, her lies only made the sich worse.

Look FC, it is your decision what you do. But don't play games of logic and justification with yourself. You are keeping the secret to protect yourself and OM. That is exactly why my WW kept the secret. She wanted to D me badly but wouldn't do it because it would have uncovered her A. Plus, she knows me and knew what my reaction and attitude towards OM would be. She was protecting him. Can you guess how that makes me feel?

Your H deserves your honesty. My guess is that he knows more than you could ever guess.

I recommend drinking tequila for burns.

Gemela is an expert on getting a suntan. When we first met, she suggested that I use either coca cola or beer to get a deep rich tan. I opted for beer. After six I fell asleep by the pool and all I got was sunburn. I complained later. She told me the beer was to be applied externally - not internally. I must have missed that part of the instructions.

Pio, that is correct. She is advice resistent. But it does beg the question as to why she is here. What is her goal? That is what I am trying to uncover.

Todd I understand exactly what you are saying and if I didn't feel that our marriage was getting better then I might be forced to tell him. Until I see that we are going backwards instead of forward, I don't want to hurt him. One of the major differences is I didn't want to D my H. I didn't understand why I was acting as I was. I loved him and had planned to be faithful and stay married to him until death. He may suspect or know, but I honestly don't think he does.

I didn't want to be in an affair. I didn't want to be unfaithful, I wanted to understand why I was doing what I was doing. I think I have uncovered that and I am working on it as well as I can.

Above all, I do not want to be a problem for you or anyone else on this board, so perhaps it's best that I go back to lurking.

The comment you made about my keeping this secret to protect myself and OM is just not so. Frankly, I think it couldn't possibly be as hurtful to me or him as what I have been going through already has been. I think I reached the pinnacle of hurt ( self-inflicted) and I wouldn't be nearly as distressed as what I have already lived through. I am not protecting my OM, I honestly think if my H knew the circumstances that he would not be without a great deal of sympathy for OM. Om tried to act honorably during most of this ordeal. They both are pretty good men. I was the problem, not either of them.

Well, it is not like there are instructions on the beer cans. I just ate an entire stick of butter. No help whatsoever. I think I will hire a nurse and a maid. Or perhaps a nursemaid. Kill two birds with one stone.

Initially, I thought the heat from the iron burned me. But in retrospect, it was the steam. Well, okay Pio, not the steam but the vapor. Or maybe it was the steam. Let me do the broom test.

Yep, it was the steam. Steam hurts.

Pio, when we were young we used to cover ourselves in coconut oil or baby oil to get a tan.

Great tan, great skin cancers now.

Did you know that steam inflicts worse burns than just about anything else?

ooooh ooooh first email from DD in SF. Not one of her big group ones but here's the first on Americans.

My goal is still as was stated in the first place. I have hurt so much and I identify with the hurt that is occurring around here. I thought maybe I could be of help. But I am beginning to think that it was a misplaced goal. Maybe after living with people like are described on here, perhaps, I seem too transparent to be true. But those have always been my motives and if it's not working then I need to quit. Because the last thing I want is to make any one of your situations worse.

So FC, your goal in being here is ........?

Yes I do. You should see my chest. Ouch!

fc, it's important that you yourself are in some semblance of recovery before you try to help others and you are clearly NOT. Help yourself first and then you can help others.

Okay, I don't usually stay where I am not wanted. I am sorry if I caused a problem for any one of you. When I can walk on water, I will be back perhaps. I thought there were humans on this board. I had seen plenty of evidence that there were, but I guess I was wrong.

I evidently mistakenly thought I was doing better. I thought I was on the road to recovery. But contrary to that belief, I am perceived as a noxious influence here. I surely felt better, wonder how I could have been so wrong about how I was doing?? Just plain stupidity I guess.

I do not mean this to be ugly in any way, but Melody if you are happily recovered, I don't know if it's a place I want to be. YOu seem to be awfully mean and judgmental. Do you honestly think by being so combative that you help people who come here? I understand 2 x4's but there are limits and also empathy and common courtesy. Do you have a place where WW can sign up for having been chased off this board? If so, I guess you can consider me to be another notch in your belt.

Todd, to simplify everything. I think I just wanted to be a sympathetic ear, glean what I could from the discussions, and try to shed some light on the mindset of a WW. We are not all evil, some of us are merely stupid and naive. I am sorry for the offense that has been taken.

fc, I am sorry we have said some unpleasant things you didn't want to hear, but I don't know many people who think that lying and trickery and fraud are good practices in a marriage. Nor is that a sign of "recovery."

I think most can judge right from wrong and know that those practices are not only very "mean," but quite noxious. Folks here are perfectly willing to help you do the RIGHT THING, but you won't find support in trying to deceive your husband.

FC,

Not offering advice...just asking you to think about this (I am sure you have thought about it more than you'd like to but...) You were drawn here b/c of how some of the BS's have demonstrated stregnth, coping, perseverance and the desire to attempt to recover a marriage after infidelity. You are an intelligent woman with lots of life experience.

We don't know much about your sitch but my guess is that your husband is much stronger and capable then you give him credit for. Stress at work pales in comparsion to marital stress. You say you are now doing better in your M but it can never reach it's full potential in the path you are pursuing. I realize that we all have different obstacles and barriers that may prevent us from following the perfect sequence and/or utilizing all of the principles...at the times intended. Even if your spouse had a terminal illness I think it would be worth the risk to tell him a basic version of what has been happening; if he chooses to forgive you it will make your M even better than ever to have worked through this obstacle...isn't that what life is about...learning and growing from our mistakes.

If we aren't living proof of how people can overcome these obstacles...Todd with his brain tumor would be more than willing to R his M with wife if she were only honest...Pio is willing to deal with his home becoming a Shoe-a-rama if G would just come clean...I myself overcame a near fatal MVA with children without my spouses support or empathy and am still willing to try and R our M if he can be open and honest...you get the jist

Don't be afraid, you said you were ready for the 2X4's...I think that you are making yourself miserable by carrying this around...it can destroy you and your M without you even bringing it to light...just b/c your H hasn't verbally acknowledged "knowing" is no indication of how much he truly knows or possibly what he thinks...sometimes our images or ideas of what could be happening are FAR worse than reality...look at pool boy...seeing his photo actually helped Pio to realize what the competition was...a school crush basically

I am not trying to beat a dead horse...I actually posted about dead horses myself...I am just saying to think again from a new perspective...step out of your unique situation and look at things from the outside...easier or having less hurt is not better...we appreciate things that make us work harder, sacrifice more and challenge us. It is your choice to make and to live with but you will be living an illusion for the rest of your life if you take it to the grave with you...I don't think you will ever find peace in your M until you allow your H to be a partner in working through whatever issues led you to make the decisions you made.

I am praying for you.

FC, I'm not trying to bash you. I just wanted to present how it feels to have another person make choices for, to have that person take freedom of choice away. Then there is the humiliation factor. Not insignificant.

Being made a fool of because openness & honesty is difficult causes the unknowing party humiliation whether they are aware at that moment or not.

There were others who knew ex was involved with someone else, keep his secret & still interacted with me. I look back & feel the humiliation. I think of the time I met gf, after he moved out, but long before the D was final & I greeted her warmly because their affair was not admitted to. My children were there, it was no place to make a scene. Did I take the high road or was I duped?

In my case not only did ex's dishonesty prevent an attempt at a real recovery it took away my freedom choice because he did my choosing for me. He knew best he thought.