If the USA took over the Ira(x)ian carpet making industry, unionized it, etc., so you think that the USA would then ease up on the import restrictions? Ira(x) is still an embargoed country AFAIK. BTW, I have to use the "x". If I say "Iran", I can get arrested. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

This is about as interesting as economics.

We have a paper in our Department called "International Relations". It's informal title is "Bombs and Guns".

No, I don't know...I want my marriage to work and I'm taking those actions, but....


But you don't think it will. Why?...


Thank you. I am looking forward to February.



I'm not afraid of Plan B. If I knew it would work and it was necessary I would be all over it. I lived without him before, I could do it again. I just feel WH is doing the best he can given the circumstances.


At least you get where I'm coming from. I wouldn't say hope is my plan, but one needs hope in the plan, otherwise what are you fighting for? Why bother? Hope is not my whole plan, but it's part of the plan.


I know this. And I accept it and I've admitted it, on this board, to myself and to WH.


I've not gotten mad. It just confuses me and I get frustrated when I'm confused. Especially when several "experts" tell me one thing and I think I'm doing it right, then other "experts" tell me I should be doing another and make me feel like I haven't learned anything since I've been here. That's why I haven't been around much lately. I needed a break to figure out what was best for me right now. Plan B is not it yet. I'll be ready for it in a couple of months, if need be. But WH came back home to work on our marriage. I'll admit that I let him back knowing that he was going to be at work with OW every day. But, he cut all ties that he could with her as soon as he came back. And he's been honest about everything. And they started her on a different type of job, or whatever, and she's at the other dealerships all day, they don't see each other anyway. So they have VERY LIMITED contact. He's home when he's supposed to be, he doesn't know I check his phone, so he doesn't delete the numbers, and they aren't talking on the phone. He needs to get over her, which to him, he's having to do that now. And I need to be the shining star at the end of the tunnel. It just wouldn't look to him like I really want the M to work if I just up and moved out.

Just my opionion and I'm probably wrong.

Steph, I risk BigK having another pot shot at me but I think you're doing just fine. (But what would I know, according to BigK).

BTW I'm still AMAZED at how far you've come in terms of knowing you are and what you want. It's very cool.

Also Steph, you have to remember, despite what some people around here think, none of us are experts. None of us are counsellors. We're just people who've been there, done that and we care.

stph20,

I've said this several times before. I used to believe that the path to marital recovery was a tight rope. Now I believe it is a four lane highway. Either your WH really wants the M or he doesn't. Experts here are giving you advice on the best way to achieve your goals. I was told very specifically to "tolerate" contact. It went against every fiber of my being but I eventually did that.

I'm not giving an opinion here. I did notice on your thread that some "experts" jumped right in and gave you very specific advice on a post and not the whole thread. Some of that advice was reckless - much was not. I understand the confusion. Been there. You are having to deal with something you were never trained for and have little experience to cope with. The fact that any marriage survives adultery this is either a miracle or the result of a WS who made a mistake, realizes it and wants their M back (or both). All you can do is offer an opening but the decision is on the WS. They chose the affair without your permission. They don't need your help to choose the M. They just need your permission to recover the M. If you follow MB principles, your M will likely be very much better.

But right now you can't get into recovery because WH doesn't have NC. I understand the November change was pushed out till next year. I have changed offices 5 times in the 2 years I have been here. They just dumped me into a tiny little hole with no windows and only one functioning light. I have the highest GC and higest position of my unit and I have the worst office. It's fine with me. It bothers my boss (but he assigned me the office so who can he blame?). He keeps saying we are going to move to new offices in two months. Problem is he says that every two months. So far we are 7 months in to his "2 month" plan and it will be at least another two months. My point is: don't expect that OW will get her job change whe WH says it will happen. It will likely not happen. What WH needs to do is find another job. He needs to take extraordinary precautions to prevent contact. That is what should happen and what will give you the best chance of R. Now, whether that will really happen is another story. But, according to the MB plan, that would be ideal.

Take your time to read and reread everything people are telling you. There is some really good stuff there.

KiwiJ,

I can't for the life of me understand why you think exploding things is not exciting - oh wait - we were discussing unxploding things. Sorry. I see your point.

Carpet bombing can make use of cluster bombs as well as incendiary bombs. Regardless of the type of bomb, the idea is to saturate an area and in the process, destroy people, equipment and structures. The process also demoralizes the enemy. It is a marvel in our high tech world. The B-52 has been around for fifty years but it remains the carpet bombers bomber of choice due to its incredible payload, range and gentle aging. The most effective example of carpet bombing was in the first Gulf War. The "elite" Republican Guard of Iraq had dug themselves into bunkers and according to the American press, were fortified to withstand the onslaught of carpet bombing. Yeah, but when the ground troops went in after two weeks of carpet bombing, the elites were crawling out of their bunkers waving white flags. Much has been made of the fact that Papa Bush and General Powell did not send the troops to Iraq to "finish the job". As the elite guard retreated, we had fighter jets and attack helicopters picking them off like shooting fish in a barrel. Powell lacked the guts to do "what is necessary". It sure would have helped the current mess we find ourselves in today.

In fact, I won a bet at work about how long the war would take. I said three weeks. My friend said he heard on CBS it could take a decade to dislodge the elite guard out of Kuwait. I won some easy money.

Could you say "I ran".

Gotta love things that rip people apart. *rolleyes*

Exactly!

BTW Todd, I saw those fortified bunkers in Wafra with my own eyes. Been in some. The Iraqis "borrowed" cylindrical fiberglass 500 gallon water tanks from the houses in Kuwait city. They spread them across the desert and cut holes just large enough to crawl through. They didn't even bury them. They may have kept out the cold but not much more. The air campaign was exceptionally cruel - but effective. The B52's make great carpet bombers, lousy music and pretty good shooters. I'm not sure what else you can get out of a B52.

Okay you might get lucky and get Bingo.

As Sherman said, war is heck. War is awful but sometimes it is necessary. This is one of those times. The world changed on 9/11. The world further changed on the day NK tested a nuclear weapon and has also changed with I ran developing nuclear weapons. I ran has announced two goals: the destruction of Israel and the destruction of the US. Before Bush 's term expires, he will order bombing of I ran's nuclear facilities and even some other valuable targets. It will retard, not prevent I ran from going nuclear one day. When that happens, nuclear detonations will occur over Israel and the US. Then the other western countries will follow, like Britain and Australian.

Make me President for 30 days; I will solve the problem.

Hey nothing wrong with the music. It's fun.

Yeah, like they say (who was that BTW who said that?) "the natural state of man is war."

Doesn't make it right though (or necessary).

If my country was threatened with invasion, perhaps necessary.

A war fought over oil and for reasons that have nothing to do with 9/11? I don't think so.

I repeat. Go read "The Prize". All modern wars have been fought over oil. The Japanese were "forced" to attack Pearl Harbor because a weak US presidency unwittingly cut off their oil supply. Where did Germany head first in WWII? It takes oil (so far) to fight a war.

Todd,

Keep in mind that KiwiJ is not unbiased here. We all knwo that NZ will be the only place to survive nuclear war. We also know that the cockroaches will be one of the few species to survive nuclear winter. So KiwiJ is simply worried about being inundated with cockroaches. I say stockpile Baygon while you still can.

Hey, we're already inundated with cockroaches. I HATE the things. They're unkillable. Where are carpet bombs when you need 'em. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

NZ is in Iran and Afghanistan. We are there as peacekeepers, not fighting forces. Our blue berets are very well known.

An aside: Last weekend the NZ rugby team beat the French 47-3. Let them put that up their arrogant backsides. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Neville, err, I mean Jen,

The US and Israel have both been threatened with an invasion - an invasion of nuclear weapons. The world can do what Neville Chamberlain did when he appeased Hitler by looking the other way as the Germans took Czechoslovakia. Or, it can face the hard realities of the world as Churchill did.

Two great quotes by Churchill:

"An appeaser is a guy who will throw his friends to an alligator hoping he will be last"; and

"I have myself full confidence that if all do their duty and if the best arrangements are made, as they are being made, we shall prove ourselves once again able to defend our island home, ride out the storms of ware outlive the menace of tyranny, if necessary, for years, if necessary, alone."

Unfortunately, peace is not achieved by being peaceful. Peace is a product of strength, might and determination. Is is true on the playground with the local bully as it is with the rogue bullies of the world.

You can make whatever argument you desire to describe the current war in Iraq. Saddam did have WMD as was reported by the Iraqis themselves a couple of years ago. That news was ignored by the world's press. Saddam did train terrorists and that fact is documented. My disagreement is just we should have gone to I ran first.

You mean NZ has enough population to field a rugby team? Or did y'all borrow some folks from Aus?

I decided to do some mental masturbation, so I looked through the Amazon bookstore. A history book tickled my fancy so I read the reviews. A Frenchman wrote that Americans are not aware of how little is known of its history outside of the US.

Correction Frenchie: Americans don't care what the rest of the world knows or doesn't know, especially Frahn-say.

Like I said where are those carpet bombs when you need 'em. There's a place (person) in Georgia that needs bombing right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />