Correction, person from the South, there's a whole world out there that doesn't give two figs for American history.

Todd,

NZ does have a very good rugby team. They patterened themselves after the NBA in the USA. Of course, it was before they had seen any actual NBA games. Something got lost in the translation. It still seems to work for them though.

Mental masturbation will make you blind you know.

This whole dialog blows my mind.

In a good way or a bad way? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We should be stockpiling persian rugs....baygone....carpet bombs....history books....good wine....antidepressants....ice cream....cookies....tampons....antiperspirants....and what else?

No need to stockpile Persian rugs. Invest your money in international HMO's. The Persian rug corporations will have to try to cut medical costs resulting from the unionization of their 7-12 year old slave laborers. HMO's will be the method of choice. I think the increase in stock price will more than offset the price increase for the carpets.

BTW, I disagree that we should stockpile AD's. I think we should pop them like there is no tomorrow. I accidentally stopped taking mine months ago and now I can't find them.

Ok Pio - I'll play. Here's the thing IMO. Hope is wonderful. Without hope you will despair. But Hope, while wonderful is not a plan.

If you are relying on hope and time to renew your love for Gemela, you will be disappointed. You might as well divorce now. Time of itself is unimportant. It's what you DO with the time.

The whole Harley Plan is indetified in the 4 rules.

1. Extrordinary Care - Meeting EN's
2. Not being source of unhappiness - Avoiding Love Busters
3. Policy of Undivided Attention - spending minimum of 15 hours a week doing (1) above.
4. Policy of Radical Honesty.

Now when you identify EN's for each other, you put in place a PLAN to meet those needs. The Plan is a specific plan. The MB home study audio course is excellent in helping you do this. $195 well spent Pio.

Now if you do the 4 things with your time, you WILL fall in love. Hope will have NOTHING to do with it.

Further proof that my screen name is deserved since bigK is picking nits again.

I am blindly following that plan. I hope it will work. You say it cannot fail. Sorry but I am not so sure but I hope I am wrong. A few pieces have to fall in place and not all are within my control. For example, I have yet to see real remorse IMO and, sorry to say, that is a deal-breaker for me. You have said that comes after some time. I hope you are right. I need to be able to forgive the hurt. I hope I can. I hope to be able to love and even trust gemela again some day. So, as you can see, I am full of hope - and that is the problem.

If you don't have hope, there is no point of following the plan and, as you suggest, better to get divorced straight away.

I know you understand this INTELLECTUALLY but your emotions and your brain are not in sync.


Really Stef I think I have covered in ample detail why I think this.


Me too Stef. I am so excited about meeting so many of my MB friends.



Ah I see. You know Stef, Harley himself says that Plan A only succeeds 15% of the time. The rest of the time Plan B is needed. But you are asking for an IRON-CLAD guarantee. 100%. Sorry can't do that. I can't guarantee thet even if you follow what I say in EVERY single solitary way that you will save your marriage. I can almost 100% guarantee however that you cannot recover while there is ongoing contact.

KiwiJ has had more opportunity to study and apply MB than most here in the last few years yet she has repeatedly not applied it in her own life, and is now advising you against a tactic that is advised by Dr Harley. She thinks she recalls a case where plan B led to a divorce. MB isn't "magic". The fastest horse doesn't always win, but that's the one you should bet on. MB is the fastest horse.

Again I suggest that you should talk with Steve Harley and get specific advice about your situation. In this Kiwi is right. None of us are marriage counsellors (but we are pro marriage which is better than can be said for many "professionals")


Hope is essential Stef. But no substitute for a plan.


OK Now I suggest you look at WHICH experts you listen to. Look at their Post count and look at their marriages. That should help you determine who has credibility, who knows what they are talking about and who you should listen to.

Picking nits was not my intention Pio. SOrry. But I have seen you trying to drive her away.

Does she understand you need to see remorse? You will know if she is genuine or not BTW so don't make excuses for not asking her for what you need. She is not a mind reader.

She has a plan.

Plan A until January.
Put appropriate boundries in place until then.
Plan B if needed after that.

The Harley's recommend Plan A until you no longer have the strength for it. Steph has plenty of strength for it.
Plus she is only now getting good at it. Her previous plan was full of impatience, demands, and LB'ers.

Her husband won't respond well to Plan B because he is not strongly bonded to her at this point. Also, he will not understand the sudden change in direction.

He is talking the talk, she's willing to give him a few more weeks to walk the walk.

Why can't you support that?

And why do you have to be so disrespectful of any opinion that doesn't agree with yours?
I have yet to see all these experts you've been quoting show up on her thread.
And post count means nothing. I just don't jabber as much as you -- but what I say is still valid.

No I have not told her that and I see it as counterproductive. You have said it could take her months for the reality to sink in. I am patiently(?) waiting that time to see how she reacts then. I'm not convinced she is remoreseful now. You have said before that shouldn't be a requirement. If I tell her what I want and she does it, did she do it because it is real or because it is what I want? I have a Catch 22. I feel it is better not to say anything and then, if it does come about, it will be more credible. Sorry I can't be more optimistic but this is a women who lied to me repeatedly for about a year - and rather convincingly at times - so she might just put on another great performance.

Sorry Lexxxy,

Before I get too defensive, which one of us are you pounding on? I've already got one scuffle going with bigK. Just need to know if I need to get ready for another one.

Sorry P -- not to you, I was talking about BigK's insistance on Plan B for Steph, and disregard of others opinions.

At this point he is causing her more despair than her husband.

Well I tend to agree. I admit I also have not stayed completely up-to-date with stph20's thread though. I got a little upset when I saw her get caught in a tug-of-war and decided to stay out. So I don't know what is right here. All I know is I hate my office and I fear I may retire here. If I go that long, I may think about getting the lights fixed though.

I do have an unrelated question though. Wouldn't a libertarian taking a GS job be considered as expanding government albeit on a micro scale? Couldn't he lose his membership card or something?

So hope has been replaced by despair? Geez, things do move fast in this thread. Now, see, where is the ignore button?

My money is on BigK. He makes sense to me both about stef and pio.

I knew you would say that Pio - that is why I said you will know if she is genuine. I think you are much wiser about her now.

Lexxxy - Just because you have not seen the posters does not mean they have not posted. It was not on MB but another board.


I have no idea why you would say that. People disagree with me ALL the time.

You think I am not supportive of Stef because I do not agree with her position?

Sorry Lexxxy - I don't do sunshine emimas. I'll leave them to you.

bigK,

I don't know much about Lexxxy and don't recall many posts. I'm sure you are more familiar. Even so, that was a definite DJ you made. Not sure if you have an old axe you felt the need to grind or not and, since I don't know, I'll reserve my judgment but you could have left off that last sentence and still gotten your message across, don't you think?