In hindsight, I think I could have worded it much better....

If I were he, it would be enough. I think it's good. It speaks volumes to me......... you put your heart right out there for him to stomp, or ignore.
I hope he does neither. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Glad things are well with the boys. My W's parents D'vd when one of her brothers was 17, and one was 14. It was very hard on the boys. I think counseling would have helped, but neither got that kind of help.
W and I were just getting married, so she switched her affection, and loyalty to me, and it has worked out OK for her.

I know you think about all of this. I wish we could tell you what will happen.

Hope he responds in ways that bring healing.

SS

BTW, WAT is on a trip (Vacation??.)

I'm sure he would comment if he had net access.

SS

I think I remember WAT posting that he was going on some big fishing trip with his son this summer....aaaah, male bonding and worms. I think I'll stay by the pool <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />.

Thanks for the thoughts SS. My biggest dilemma is whether or not to see him. I have been wondering if another Plan B would be good or if I should keep allowing him access to me and hopefully make him feel that communication with me is "safe" - sort of like a Plan A.

For a while we didn't see each other at all, then he started showing up in places where he knew I would be and has been keeping tabs on me through his brother. I really don't know which course would be best.

Have spent a lot more time here lately just reading and it has helped. One day at a time has been my mantra lately....

My biggest dilemma is whether or not to see him. I have been wondering if another Plan B would be good or if I should keep allowing him access to me and hopefully make him feel that communication with me is "safe" - sort of like a Plan A.

If the first A is over............

SS pauses, and thinks some more.

If the first A is over, I think you might try to spend time with him, If he is sorry, and licking his wounds, you could really help him.

If he is not sorry, you are smart enough to pick up on it. You'll know what's going on if you spend time with him.

The down side is that he could not have come around yet, but be on his way, and you could burn out and quit.

At least plan B protects you.

From reading, you seem to prefer to do something than to wait.

I admit I can't understand why he would ignore your attempts to make the peace. But then, I don't understand why he went off the deep end in the first place.

It's almost like there is a puzzle peice mising. I suppose most A's are like that though. Sometimes there is no logic to what goes on.

You sound a little better. I hope its the real thing, not just a great acting job.

SS

Hi Lizzie - I'm pretty mcuh in agreement with SS on this.

I think your letter was good. "Chit or get off the pot" but not in an in-your-face way. A self assured man would not shy away unless he really isn't interested in you.

So, two possibilities?

1. He's not self assured enough to share his inner most feelings with you, or

2. He's not really interested.

I suggest you up the ante a bit by arranging a meeting and then putting your hands around his neck and shake his head saying, "What in the heck is WRONG with you??? Either git yor head outta yer butt and let's straighten this chit out or I'm gonna leave your a$$ for ever. No more of this mamby pamby chit! You understand????"

I'm not joking (too much).

WAT

Well said WAT.

SS

Just like that, huh?

Arrange a meeting and lay it out there? Again??

I just keep beating my head against the wall.

Probably because I still think there's more to this than meets the eye.

Working on a list of all the things I want to say (probably a repeat of all the things I've already said) if he agrees to meet.

Maybe he thinks that if he ignores this long enough it will just disappear and he won't have to deal with it anymore.

::

It would be so much easier if he would TELL me what he is thinking....then I wouldn't be trying to guess all the time.

Well, we haven't witnessed the extent to which you've already done this. Maybe you've already done it enough and he's brain dead.

Remember what happened when you pulled the plug on life support before. But I'm not advocating you use another man to show him you're losing interest.

Unless he gets to the point that he can find his a$$ with either hand, you should evaluate how much longer you want to hang around. Johnny Depp may be out there for you. Arrrrrrr <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT

Saw WH last night.

He is "seeing someone". Not OW...someone new. Wouldn't give any details and didn't want to talk about it.

Hence, the no interest.

So Sorry.

I can only imagine your feelings.

It's hard to know what I would do, were I in your place.

Probably there are many things going through your mind, which thought is getting the most playing time?

SS

Hi SS.

My mind is in a whirlwind,

When I went to see WH last night I said a lot of the things that I have been saying here.

I was relieved that he told me the truth, albeit a very limited version.

I told him that his time is up. He can not remain married to me and keep acting like he is single. I told him that I don't deserve to be treated in such a disrespectful manner and that was why I ended the A that I had started. I told him that I believe in our ability to repair our marriage, especially in light of the fact that he says he still loves me.

I asked him again what he was running from and how I could help him.

He said he needed a couple of days, but promised he would call me so we can talk. I told him that I choose the marriage and he needs to make a choice one way or the other.

You're letting him string you along.

You're a good woman, Liz, and you deserve better - to be treated better by YOURSELF!

Give him a FULL ultimatum.

A time limit.

A short one.

Very short.

JMHO

WAT

That's about as fair as you can get. I'm glad you didn't hit him, or break anything. (grin)

I sure hope he makes the right choice. He has sure made some bad ones up to this point.

You able to function OK today?

SS

Didn't sleep. Can't eat.

Working on a script for our meeting. Any input would be appreciated. I will post here for advice when I finish it.

Just got back from IC which helped.

I had been debating about going to pool or not tonight as WH has been playing on the same team again lately.

Decided with IC that I will go as usual and put on a good face. The ball is in his court and I will leave it there.

I think WAT may be right.
Time limits are good when you need closure.

SS

I've been working on a letter.

My gut feeling is that WH will not call, will avoid this, and wait for me to do my usual dance. I have been working a lot this week (nurses are always short-staffed and what were people doing 9 months ago??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />)

I have been working on Loving Anyway's "Owning all you villagers" thread and have gained some insight, also read a lot of the passive-aggressive thread on the recovery boards...so

I have composed this letter to leave at WH's on Sunday night if he doesn't call me. I will leave his wedding ring with it and a CD of songs that I have been putting together for him...our songs...and the ball still in his court..

My first attempt at this letter was rather patehtic and pleading... I am hoping this one is different.

I await your feedback.

WAT, are you the Master Baiter??!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

"There seems to be so much that I want to say to you, but looking back over all of the letters I wrote you, I seem to have said it all already. I keep thinking that there has to be something I missed, some way to break through this barrier that you have erected between us, but only you can do that.

I want to listen to what you have to say.

I want to know what is in your heart.

I want to know what you are afraid of and what your concerns are.

I want to help you; I want to help us.

In one of your letters, you told me that you had put walls up around your heart and you couldn't let anybody in. Soon after that letter, you start "seeing someone"? Can you help me to understand that?

Your words say:

That you love me…
That you have “not completely disappeared” (still don’t know what that means)
That you need space…..time….
That you don’t want to hurt me…
That you are disgusted with yourself for “punching me in the stomach and kicking me when I am down”…..

Your actions say:

That you don’t love me…
You don’t see the value in our marriage….
That you don’t want to put it back together…
That you do want to hurt me…
That you are willing to kick me again and again….
That you are single and that I don’t exist....

Your actions are your choices….

You say that things are so cut and dried for me. They aren’t. This situation is fraught with complications. You cheated…..I cheated…..you are cheating again. One mistake, one bad choice after another.

Choices need to be made. I choose the marriage. I broke it off with Brian for several reasons:

I did it out of a reaction to hurt you back and I told myself that I was justified because I was lonely and felt rejected. I used him unfairly. How can I involve someone in my life when my heart is with you and our marriage seems to be in limbo? I am sorry for the disrespect to you and the disrespect to Brian. It was not fair to any of us. It definitely damaged my own self-respect, and I am trying to right that wrong. It wasn’t easy to break it off because after dragging him into my life, I felt like maybe I owed him something. Do you feel like that? I realized I owed myself...you…us…more.

What about you? Does this new person know that you are married? That you cheated? That you love me? That you see me every week when we play pool? That I am committed to saving our marriage? Are you being fair to her by involving her in this situation? Another fantasy? What are you running from? What are you searching for? Are you going to parade her around as your “girlfriend” in front of people who know what our situation is? Disrespectful to me and to her.

This past year has been ****** for me. You say it has been the same for you, yet you keep pulling away instead of trying to put us back together. Are you prepared to give up our marriage without ever giving it a real effort to put it back together?

Eight years of reality…real love…everyday stuff….lives and hearts enmeshed and intertwined…..our connection…you know what I’m going to do before I do it…..

Over this past year I have realized the things that being married to you has taught me:
Love – real, true, unconditional, for better or worse love
Patience
Respect
To always to the right thing. This is perhaps the biggest…so many times (especially with Tom) I wanted to act out of anger and frustration and you always helped me to step back and do the right thing.

We have been at this impasse for almost a year now...time lost…never to be seen again.

I am asking for that year back. I am asking you to stop…open your eyes…look deep inside…commit to our marriage for one year… a year of honesty, openness, partnership, compromise, and respect. A year of real effort … a plan we decide on together. If we succeed…we have come out the other side stronger and better than ever. If we do not succeed…we each walk away knowing that we gave it our all.

I look into my future and I still see you… and me….together.

What do you see?

Do you want to be married to me or not?

Either way, it’s not simple. But is it worth it?

Your decision now…your choice…

I am either your wife and all that goes with that or I am nothing.

I will ask you to please stay away from me if you decide to not choose the marriage. Seeing you causes me unbearable pain. If you continue to show up at pool, I will have to give it up and I don’t want to do that. I’ve lost so much already.

My party is the 29th. I have tickets to the Black Crowes on the 30th. I bought those tickets with you in mind. I’d like you to go…I’d like us to start..

It’s decision time."

Hi Liz -

Inasmuch as I don't see you in Plan A, your letter is appropriate if it speaks your honest feelings. In Plan A I might suggest some changes to reword some portions, but it's good IMHO for where you are. (I don't see you in Plan A because he's not away from you because of an affair. He's away from you because he has his head up his butt.)

But don't leave the ring or the CDs. Too dramatic. But I'm a guy. But so is he.

How 'bout a time limit? Pros and cons to that. No time limit and you have to be ready to say, "Too late."

Me, Master Baiter? I'm an apprentice baiter. Hope to work up to Master. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

WAT

Liz - an potentially revealing question:

Have his OWs been younger than him?

WAT

#1 was. Don't know anything about the current one. I have come to realize that OW is a symptom, that his A's are not about them, but about him. Why?

OK just got this_

"If you still want to meet, I'll meet you for lunch on Sunday at Four Brothers, 12:30. I don't know that I'll be able to give you any more answers to these questions that you have, but if you want to meet that's what I will do. Let me know."