May God Bless You. I think you are making the right move.

Liz - you sound reasoned and thoughtful. Many BSs here before you have described coming to similar places. As I've suggested before, imagine yourself in the future and wonder if you'll have regrets for your final actions. If you have any reasonable doubts, there may be more to do. But you sound like you're sure you did all you reasonably could and FWIW, I agree.

WAT

Lizzie-you do sound like you are in a good place. I wish you the best in your decision. I sure that you and the boys will be in a better place. please keep us updated on your well-being as well as the boys.

Take care!

Had my appt with Steve Harley this morning. I updated him on the weekend away with WH and my decision to file for a D. He says I should put things on hold for a little bit. He still wants to talk to WH on Friday, even though I told him that WH has agreed to listen only for a half hour.

I am ambivalent about this because I don't forsee WH having an epiphany, and even if he does - I am out of gas. Steve says it will plant seeds, but I'm still not sure. My mind is pretty much made up. Steve seems to think that my feelings are the result of the weekend - too much exposure to WS and depletion of the love bank.

After not hearing from WH since that weekend, I get these emails today AFTER I talked to Steve and told him I hadn't heard from him. Figures, huh?

email #1
"I just realized that because Monday was a holiday, I have to be in to work at 7am on friday. Is there any way you can reschedule the appt? Any other friday would be ok. Let me know."

A few minutes later, email #2:
"If it's too much of a hassle to change it, I'll just take friday off from work. Let me know as soon as possible in case I need to let Jim know."

This was the man who would only agree to a half hour because he "couldn't" be late for work. Now he is willing to take a whole day off?

This is the pattern. 3 weeks without contact and then he puts just enough out there hoping to keep me dangling.

WAT, I look into the future (as you suggested) and I just can't envision WH coming home, I can't see the boys accepting that. It is quite possible that his treatment of them has been worse than his treatment of me.

The whole issue of trust is a huge one for me. And I worry about the possibility of WH having a sex addiction - hence his "inability" to control himself - because of some of the incidents that I have previously posted.

I still think I should cut my losses.

I want to move on.

I want to be someone's one and only, someone's first choice.

I am tired of being alone; I miss having a partner.

Regarding BIL and SIL - they had NO knowledge that WH was still seeing OW#1. They don't know why WH's best friend thought that. They swore up nd down that they would never not be truthful with me and I believe them. They have been nothing but supportive to me and the boys. BIL has even stepped up to the plate and spent a lot of time with the boys.

I feel bad for having doubted them. I know better.

I hate that I am now always ready to believe the worst.

I don't know guys. How do you think I should handle the email? I am not going to reschedule. But, should I cancel?

((((Lizzie)))))

What do you have to lose by WH calling? Why not give it one last shot for you? Not for WH? Let Steve feel him out, see what he has to say. I wouldn't reschedule...leave it where it is. Just say you're sorry but that's not an option and see if he follows though.

I guess I am afraid of being sucked back in. I have had such trouble letting go, and I am finally there - although I am very sad - but I don't want to do what I have done in the past.

Keep going back again and again, into the same situation, and hoping for a different outcome (the very definition of insanity).

I am loyal to a fault.

I'm with Rindy.

Friday is only two days away and it comes equipped with happy hour. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I suggest you respond to WH thanking him for being willing to talk to SH on Friday. He may end up backing out anyway - who knows what's going on in his head?

Why am I recommending this after encouraging you to cut your losses? Because if it still produces nothing, you have that much more contentment knowing you tried. If it produces more than nothing, you may make the choice to ride it out as long as it lasts. Do I think tangible progress will result? No. Not for him. For you, yes - you'll have an even clearer picture of the future, IMHO.

WAT

Thanks guys - good advice, as usual.

That's why I love ya!!!!

Let us know what happens...best wishes for you Lizzie!

lizzie lizzie lizzie....

WHAM. That is me, kickin your butt.

Not for the revenge affair...but for allowing your husband to so cloud your mind, even after all this time. You have the power, you just don't feel it. What would you do to your sons if they kept lying to you, and failing at everything they said they'd do for you? First of all, I'm sure you would quit giving them the benefit of the doubt, and start handling things yourself. Secondly, you'd discipline them. DISCIPLINE IS A LOVING ACTION. Everyone must suffer consequences for thier actions.

Plan B is really what I would say your husband is striving for. You need to hit him with Plan D. That's a big jump, I know, but he is fence sitting, and seemingly aware of the MB concepts, and desires you to stop talking to him and making him feel guilty. He doesn't see anything bad int he future cuz you are offering him a life of playing around, while you wait for him. GRRRR.

-hang in there

A gentle reminder...

You cannot get sucked back in...you choose. You have always chosen and will choose your life. You know that.

Can you choose NOT to bash yourself for past choices, which may be the culprit in skewing your future ones?

Hmmm?

Oh, look...just what RookKev said...dang it...beats me to the kickin butt all the time...well, then...

Here's a hug... (((((((((Lizzie))))))))))

Which reminds me...how are you doing meeting your own needs, eliminating those LBs to self and acting from your code?

Yeah, I'm head nag. Deal with it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

Liz,
Having made a decision, have you been mostly more at ease now, or less?

If you are (mostly) more at ease, less worried, and less stressed then I think you are on the right track.

You have a great ability to reason things out, and take everything into account. Think on what people say, but trust your own mind.

You really are OK.
You really aren't going crazy. It just feels like it sometimes.
Don't second guess yourself, just keep thinking about it, watching your feelings, and let the time go by. You'll be fine.

Prayers continue.

SS

The same old pattern is playing itself out. Well, almost the same.

I think I am acting (not reacting) differently.

RookKev, thanks for the butt kickin. It took me a while to see the pattern, but I think I got it now.

As WAT and Rin suggested, I emailed WH yesterday about the Friday appt. - short and sweet - told him I couldn't reschedule and to let me know if he wasn't going to make it as I would use the time myself.

Then I went to pool last night and came home to find these 3 emails:

#1 @ 4:50 PM

"Like I said, I will take Friday off work so I can make the appt."

#2 @ 5:27 PM
"Any chance you can give me an idea of what will be going on during this appt? Will he do all the talking? What exactly will he be saying? Will I be expected to talk to him or just listen? Please let me know."

#3 @ 7:23 PM
"Sorry I keep sending all these tiny emails. I was also hoping you'll give me a little bit of time to digest whatever is said during the appt. How soon after would you like me to contact you? You can probably tell I'm getting a little anxious about this. It's that whole counseling thing that you know I don't do well with. But I told you I would take the appt. and I promise I will listen to what he has to say and give it some serious thought afterward. On another note, I hope you did well at pool tonight. I really wanted to go down, but I know I can't right now. I'll talk to you soon."

I haven't replied to any of these yet. I could use some help with that.
Of course his whole tone is different now. 3 weeks ago he agreed to only a half hour and said that this would all be a waste of his time and that he wouldn't answer not even 1 question, that he was not coming home, that he was in love with his "special someone", blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum. Now he wants time to consider things again.

So a drumroll from the head nag please - I am choosing to not allow myself to get sucked back in.

A couple of weeks ago, I would have been very excited by his emails. But I am looking at actions these days.

SS, I am more at peace. Praying more. I think there's a connection. Letting go has been a huge relief.

Here's a draft of my reply to WH:

"WH, per your request,I told Steve Harley that you were willing to listen only. Having said that, I really don't know what to tell you to expect."

Morning, Lizzie! It's a beautiful day here, i wish you the same where you are.

I got a feeling your heads screwed on tight than you think. I think your reply is great...just the meat...

I'm also happy to see that you are more peaceful now a days and I feel that being detached will be of great help to you.

One more day, sweetie...you can do it! You're doing a extremely marvaleous job. Keep up the good work!

Here's a draft of my reply to WH:

"WH, per your request,I told Steve Harley that you were willing to listen only. Having said that, I really don't know what to tell you to expect."


.......... what to expect. Having said that, when I talked to Steve he made me feel at ease right away. I think you'll be fine once you get started. Thank you again for doing this for me. It means a lot.



Relax.
Once you are willing to give it up, once you decide you will be fine on your own, once you know you won't take any more garbage............. good things often happen. Always inside, sometimes out.

Prayer and peace often go together. I highly recommend it.

You are a daughter of God.
Of noble birth.
You stand to inherit.

Keep your goals in mind. Remember who you are.

SS

I sent WH the email - pretty much SS's version.

BIL and SIL came over tonight for our weekly dinner and card game. They saw WH before they arrived. BIL confronted WH about still seeing OW#1.

WH admitted that he had been seeing her but wasn't any longer. Says he is not seeing anyone. Might be true, might not be true. It doesn't really matter at this point.

BIL told him that I knew, told him that his best friend was the one who told me. There's gonna be some fallout there.

That probably explains his willingness to keep the appt. tomorrow.

No response to my email. He knows he is caught again. Probably trying to think of what line he can come up with now.

Don't know why I am letting myself get angry about this. I already knew he was seeing her again - suspected back in May and had it confirmed last week.

Will see how tomorrow goes.

HI, Lizzie, I wanted to say Good morning and I wish you the best today!

It's okay to be angry just understand why you are angry...Are you mad at him or are you mad at yourself?

I can tell your angry from this statement: "Probably trying to think of what line he can come up with now."

Do I have to say that's a DJ? A way of thinking that if there is a chance for your M at this point, a belief that will hold you back. I know it's been difficult for you...I've kept up to the best of my ability...

I just see your anger closing your mind...I'm not saying that you don't have a right to be angry...you do...I just hope that if there is a possibility of positive today and toward motion with your M that you will be able to see it because you focus seems so narrow.

What would it take at this point, lizzie, for you and WH to move pass this...to reconcile? What do you need? Do you have a list of what you need in recovery...did you ever get that far in writing out what you need?

Even if you don't have faith to recovery your M, I will have faith for you for the time being...I think I agree with Dr. Harley...that you still love WH but it's really buried right now...

Just wanted to remind you that love is a choice...we can choice to love and we can choice not too...What's your choice for the day? It's a choice we all have to make EVERYDAY. Are you able to chose that today? And perhaps tomorrow, and the next...

I would hate to see grow old and become bitter! LOL Shoeing little kids from the porch with your broom... LOL

Of course, I'm just kidding...felt I was getting to serious and wanted to break out some dumb [censored]! LMAO

Perhaps I'm hoping for a miracle for you...but I'm still hoping...I think WH still cares and loves you...it's just those darn aliens...you know?

Well I never got to talk to Steve Harley this AM. WH was supposed to take the first half hour of the appt, and I would take the rest.

I think WH might have taken the whole hour because Steve never called me back.

Why am I angry, Rin? I think it is protecting me right now. I feel very vulnerable. Having made a decision, I felt strong nd sure. And then following through with WH's appt. combined with the fact that WH told BIL that he is not with OW anymore makes me feel like I need to keep my guard up.

Tha last time OW dumped him, he ran over here with his I'm sorry letter which resulted in a brief false recovery that was extremely painful.

I am extremely angry that he continued to lie to me all summer long. I know, he was caught up in the addiction of his affair. He is still accountable for his actions though.

I am angry at how he has hurt the boys. I am angry that I can no longer believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

What would it take for recovery? Last time, I was wiling to formulate a plan with him, to be open to discuss it. I let him talk me out of counseling and into keeping his apartment.
My list now would be all-inclusive and non-negotiable. Weekly counseling - MC and IC. Complete transparency, honesty, all access to email, phone records, no "private space".

I still don't think that recovery is what I want. I can't imagine having him move home at this point and I would not be willing to even start a recovery if he maintained his apartment.

And I would want to know EVERY detail of his time away so I had all of the information with which to make a decision.

And this time he would need to send a letter of apology to OW's husband - to take full responsibility and show approprite remorse.

So right now I am not going to DO anything. Yeah, that's what I said folks. Lizzie is going to just be still. I am going to detach from this whole situation. Nothing needs to be done in a hurry, anyway.

I am going to set up another appt. with Steve Harley, throw myself into my classes and my boys, and continue doing all of the things that I enjoy.

This will all turn out the way it's supposed to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WOW, Lizzie, I love your attitude...I think that you are wonderful for deciding to remain still at this point...

I understand that the false recovery was very painful for you...I know mine felt like a second D-day when I found out that there was C...However, it does seem like you learned a great deal from the experience...

I love your attitude of not wavering from the things that you need...you sound more determined...and that's a wonderful thing! You sound so much stronger than you were!

I'm also learning that being in a rush never accomplishes anything...that's a hard lesson for me...LOL...the control freak comes out and I have to repremand her back into her corner...LMAO

Like LA says "We're human beings...not doings!"

Good job! You are definitily a blessing!

I think it's cuz my head and my heart are in sync.

Choosing to act based upon my beliefs and my boundaries.

Without expectations. Knowing that I choose...everything (even the anger).