I am the BW been reading for quite some time but this is my first post.

I know my XWH is reading the boards, I really doubt he will ever post any question.
d-day was 7 months ago. I have been reading MB since then. He recently started reading MB and the boards. We are married for 10 years and have two kids, 5 and 7.

He says he wants to start recovery.
I think we need a plan, I know we have to start following MB principals, ENQ, POJA, etc, but I feel we can't move on and I am (tired of) waiting for him.

From my BW perspective, what I feel is missing for us to move on is for him to be total honest about what happened during those 20 months, (previous to d-day) of at least 3 PA/ EA and other EA's. I still suspect of a few ONS he denies. He did send a NC right after d-day to latest OW and no contact since then.

And even more important is for him to be total open about his feelings about all we've been thru.

We already lost so much (and so much time) due to his closiness that I really find it difficult to talk to him and be honest to him. We're in limbo and I am really tired and running out of love.
I am not even in Plan A nor believe we are in recovery. We are growing apart each day.

I ask you all, BS and WS any advise you can give him as to help him realize how important it is to be totally honest.

Each day that goes by make's it 10 times harder for me to ever believe his words, or at least find some comfort zone of honesty and commitment from him so we (I?) can move on.
Hope it's not too late already. We are at this for so long, I am tired of "A" talk with so many holes in it. I am tired of this limbo. I have went from shock to anger stage... right now I may be in some sadness stage and very close to just give up everything. Ad's are helping a bit and I am in IC but still very depressed.

Thanks much to all and any that might help me/ us.

You say you went from shock to anger stage at the end of your post but by time the I read that line, I already suspected the common culprit for hiding the truth.

He's terrified to be honest with you.

Have you read the postings about how to make him feel safe for disclosure?

The best thing you might try to begin with, is to write down a list of your questions over a week or two, and narrow them down to the ones you really need answered.

Then let him write the answers, or: some feel more comfortable speaking the answers, so if he would rather answer your questions in person, try to get your poker face on and just nod or say ok while he is disclosing. And don't stare at him, I knew if he looked in my eyes and saw the hurt he wouldn't be able to tell me the truth.

Do not react with anger.

Then maybe spend ten minutes or so on each question over a period of time, otherwise it can feel like a death sentence to a man, use a timer, so that he knows he's got an escape off of the hot seat.

I had to do this with my husband in order to get total honesty, but i did get it, and all of my questions answered, and believe me I had a lot and i wanted details. My husband is a passive aggressive personality so his inclination is to escape or shut me out and not talk, to withdraw.

So this was the only way I could make him feel safe. I also had to reassure him that no matter what he said, i would never throw it in his face, use it against him, or get mad and leave now that I had committed to recovery.

If you can't get tough with yourself on these points you may never get your answers. Thanks for asking this question, I hope it helps many others.

I'm just starting to weed through how we got here, to "RECOVERED, and happily married".

I agree with 10 about making it safe for him.

Part of the problem is that the FWS thinks they know how you are going to act/react to what they did.

IE if BS knows I did x they will divorce me, or some other perceived negative outcome.

Now my feeling is this when it comes to that thinking. Guess what you are right I might want a D. That probably won't change in a week, a month, a year, or a decade. I would rather know now then a year from now that I should get a D. This of course is worse case scenario.

I do not believe you want a D or you wouldn't be here.

You should start off with Josephs letter. It is posted here somewhere.

Now before you decide what you want to know decide what you can live with if you are told. Gory details are not a good idea.

IMHO the other reason FWS do not want to be honest is there are always consequences for your actions. The less damage you have done the less you have to do to make amends.

You should read Harleys post on forgiveness.

Now you can learn from my mistakes. I let FWW duck, weave, bob and avoid telling me the truth. It took almost three years for her to finally be honest. Three years of he11.

Here is how it played out. She told me about the A. As time went by more details came out. She admitted to them. Once my head cleared a little I realized it didn't make sense. Something was missing. I tried to figure out what was missing. I figured it out. I went back she admitted to it. That new information then made me realize something was missing etc etc etc. Kept going on like that for three years. Finally she admitted to everything.

At that point she felt like it happened in the past and there was nothing she could do now.

I am a little confused now what to do. I know if I knew the whole story there would have been different boundries etc. Her dishonesty or lack of radical honesty benefitted her.

Now I have an A to be resentful for and a whole bunch of lies as well. A M can only withstand so much.

Trust is the foundation of a M IMHO. If you can't trust him you have no foundation. Why would you try to build a new M on a bad foundation? If you start building only to find out your FWS had lied it hurts a lot.

Figure out what you want to know. Ask him for the information and then give him some time to be honest.

Do not wait three years though like me. LOL.

Thanks both of you.

I did try making him feel safe for disclosure, but from your post maybe I didn't really achieved it. He sure looked in my face and saw the hurt.

I don't want all details as I know I can't live with them. I want to know what really happened, I want to fill in what's missing and you got it right there, I want to rebuilt our M but not in a bad foundation.

I don't expect to trust him right away or in a near future but I can't move until I feel Radical Honesty coming from him.

I did send him Josephs letter, 4 months ago. I did gave him all the opportunities to be safely honest. And that that time I had hope in rebuilding based on honesty.

Now I am just sad and tired of waiting.

I dont really know what he's thinking.

I not only want to fill the missing holes but MORE I want him to be honest about his feelings now.

Right now I see it this way,

He's not being honest because:

1. He's really guilty and remorseful and believes he's only going to hurt me even more and I'll end up D if I really know the whole truth.

2. He's a sick man and he believes he had done nothing that wrong, since he still with me and just had some fun.

I know he's not dumb... he's very inteligent.
So, he should have by now already understood the need for honesty and is withholding because:

1. It's really hard for him to open up with me, because it is.
If so, how much is he comited to rebuilt then?

2. He's just lying and will continue he's cheating behave.
If so, why doesn't he just let me go? Who the H**l is this man after all?

No I cant live like this for tree years <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

So we are in limbo and we're just killing any chance of recovery if we continue like this.

H says he wants to rebuilt, that we are in recovery, but he's not being totaly honest... is he still in withdraw? In fog? Stucked in the reasons why? Is he still justifying himself with WS logic? (This is what I feel from his actions at times)

Please any WS can give any advice to another WS as to open up himself?

A few more possibilities.

The less he admits to the less he has to do to make the M better. In other words he can avoid the consequences of some of his actions.

Read Harley's section on forgiveness. The BS must be equally compensated etc.

Less he admits to the less he has to compensate for his actions.

Some of his justifications/reasons may not hold water if he is completely honest.

For my FWW she did not admit it happened the very first night they hung out. She later said she was drunk and didn't know what she was doing.

Well that changes everything. I wasn't a bad husband etc you were drunk and weren't thinking clearly. You didn't sit down and have your laundry list of problems before you did it you created it after you did it.

So once it came to light over a year later her justifications started becoming just that. Problem was in that time I was working on owning my part in what went wrong. Other problem because she had to keep those justifications it was almost impossible to work on mine. LOL. Long story but I am not perfect but the EN's she said I wasn't filling I was. Not until I knew it happened on the first night did I call her on it.

So there you go. Two other reasons that he may not radical honesty.

Not sure if these hold true for you but for me they did.

XWH - ex wayward husband? are you divorced or is he a FWH- former wayward husband?

Makes a great difference in deciding your next step.

Good luck. Remember that you will feel like their is no hlep, but if you are dilligent, things will change if you are following the EN and avoiding LB. Also I felt the same way that you did and it took my H almost 7 months to return from the fog. Oh and by the way ((((((((GOOD LUCK)))))))))