I am in my first year of marriage however my husband and I have been together for 9 years. We have two children. He recently admitted that he has fallen in love with a woman he has been talking to on the internet and the phone for over a year. He says he just realized how he feels about her. He went so far as to move out of our home. He says that I have hurt him too much in the last year. She has restored his self confidence and zeal for life. He says he doesn't love me anymore and doesn't want to love me anymore. He wants to be with her. She says she loves him too. He moved back home today because I was not dealing well with him being gone. I had to agree to allow him to continue talking with her or he would not have come. He says he is here for the children. I have made it clear that I love him and understand how this happened. I've also made it clear that I'm going to try and rebuild our marriage. He says he is not interested in that. I'm at a loss for how to proceed. He told me that sex would be physical for him because he doesn't have "that type of emotional attachment" to me anymore. Right now he is not willing to give her up. I can't ask him to or he will leave. He has agreed not to see her, just talk. Do I have any chance at working this out? We had "sex" tonight and he admitted that all feelings were not gone. He swears that he does not want a relationship with me anymore yet he is here. I know I'm a big part of the problem. I've admitted my mistakes. He has admitted his but truly seems ready to move on with this new woman. He now considers her his girlfriend. I feel like I should fight to the very end. Unfortunately, this seems to be the end. Pleas Help!

ReplacedInWI

Hi there. Sorry that you have to be here.

I think lots of the really good, long-timers are probably off for the weekend and holiday, I'm guessing the boards will be slow for a few days.

I'm not one of the experts, but didn't want to leave you hanging....

There are lots of stories here that are very similar to yours, your situation is not hopeless, and your husband is not very different from other WH's.

So I think the standard advice is first READ, READ, READ. Get Survivng an Affair by Dr. Harley, and read through this site as much as you can. I also liked "Love Must be Tough" by Dr. Dobson, but I think I heard recently that this one might be controversial around here.

Learn about Plan A and boundaries. Find the Carrot and Stick of Plan A post (you'll have to search for it unless someoen comes along with a link).

Boundaries were the hardest thing in the world for me to learn. I said the same things you are saying: If I ask him not to have contact with her, he will leave. It took me a loooooong time to realize that NOT insisting on it was actually just facilitating the affair.

The next thing is to gather information and expose the Affair. Affairs do not do well in direct sunlight, so you need to get as much light on it as possible. Tell your family, his family, friends, pastors, anyone who can put pressure on the affair.

What do you know about OW? Is she married? If so, find out how to get in touch with her husband, and expose to him.

There are some really good "getting started" threads, but you might have to poke around to find them. I think one is by Longhorn and one by WorthATry (Also called WAT). It's definitely worth it to really dig in to those threads. Then ask questions about anything you don't understand or want more detail on.

There are great people around here who can really help, so keep posting. It might just be a little slow until after the holiday.

Hang in there.

-AmI

Here are a couple of threads that might help get started. (Sorry, I don't know how to make them pretty in a link):

This is LongHorn's thread for newly betrayed spouses:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

WAT's quick-start guide:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...ge=0#Post405303

This is a great one by Star*fish about fear:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

Here's a good one on Plan A ... Read Dr. Harley's book, first, so you'll understand Plan A.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

exposure and plan A...definitely memorize carrot and stick of plan A.

don't push for relationship talks...just try to also find out his EN's and work that angle too...meet them.

plan A to the hilt! and get a PI if you have to to expose the whereabouts of the ow..is she married? contact her H...if she is single, call THE PARENTS...call the church..find out! There are many ways 2 expose.

Exposure WILL make the WS angry...but it is them angry at being found out...YOU do nothing wrong. Remember, an affair can ONLY SURVIVE IN SECRECY..IT WILL THRIVE THERE...BUT IN THE LIGHT OF DAY, IT WITHERS AND DIES...LIKE A VAMPIRE. Shine some light in...and some truth and watch the affairees scramble for cover.

Like I know and read here...EXPOSURE DOES NOT KILL A MARRIAGE...BUT AN AFFAIR SURE CAN!

HI RIW. Welcome to MB. Sorry you have to be here. BUt there ar a lot of people who are going through most of what you are. ANd we can help. It might not save your marriage but the principles here will work to give YOU the strength to do what YOU need to do. For yourself and for your kids.

IamOK said to READ. And yes that is a MUST.

Calm down and take a deep breath.:)

FIrst rule is this place is YOUR safe haven. Do NOT share it with your WH. This is the place where you can cry and scream and get mad and heal and come up with plans in safety.

SO I am going to ask you some questions, okay?

What did you do that hurt him so much? Do you know? Or is this your WH's excuse? Most WH have a real feeling of entitlement and nearly ALWAYS blame the BS- Betrayed Spous for their own actions. Very common and sometimes they even beleive themselves.


HOw do you know the OW loves him? Have you spoken to her? Becasue rarely is that a good thing. They are liars and cheats and in their own fog. After all, they are commiting Adultery with YOUR WH.

NOw you say that you HAD to agree to ALLOW him to talk with her. RIW, that is not accurate is it? YOu had a choice. YOu could have said no way, I will not be disrespected by you commiting Adultery.

BUt I know you feel deseprate. YOu also said that he HAD to come back becasue your were not in good shape. Are you on ADs? Anit-depressants? Because if yu aren't, it would be a great place to start. YOu need to have yur emotions under control.

In Plan A, you are working on YOU! Getting healthier and educated and attractive. Please read up on the principles. There are tons of great books to help as well. Your local library or church might have them.

You also need to look at IC. Individual counselling. BUT a word of caution. You must interview them and quiz them on if they are MB aware. There are horror stories of ICs who are more Divorce counsellors. Find someon you can rust. Marriage Counselling does NO good for WH as he is in th emisdt of adultery and will not care or hear anything good about your M right now.

Okay that is enough information for now. Take it easy and come back and post your thoughts on this thread to keep things together.

And last thing when yu tye, if you put double spaces for paragraph breaks it makes it easier to read.

A Prayer for you RIW.

And another thing. PLEASE protect yourself. If you had unprotected sex with your WH, you might be endangering your own health.

This is a good point, and another thing that was really hard for me to hear. Someone told me that I needed to realize that I had already lost him .... he was already gone. Allowing the A to continue right in front of me would not make him less gone... it makes it that much harder and worse. Because then not only is he already gone, he's also rubbing your nose in it.

Don't fall into the trap of feeling so desperate to get him back that you will hold onto him at any price. You and your kids are better than that. And this is too high of a price. It's absolutely ok to say "It's really disrespectful for you to carry on an adulterous relationship right in front of me." and "I think we can rebuild a really amazing, happy marraige as soon as you stop having contact with OW."

You don't HAVE to accept his conditions for coming back. Especially when they are such cruel, ugly conditions.

My first rays of hope. Thank you for the links. I think I understand what I have to do. I'll read some more then Plan A will be on the way!

ReplacedInWI

Yes, she is married. I can't afford a PI. All I have is her first name. Remember, this is an internet relationship. Luckily, she's 3,000 miles away. I would love to let her husband know. I just don't know how to find him and tell him. I'm going to try and use my brother in law for the fact finding mission. It may be my only chance and I know he would be willing to do it.

ReplacedInWI

I asked him to stop talking to her and he said "no". He would not even discuss the possibility. I can't do a Plan A if he isn't here and I needed to get him back here. There were some "rules" posted. He can't talk to her in our house or around our children. Contact is limited to no more than once per day. He can not have contact with her while we are having time together. That kind of stuff. This were the conditions that I established. I felt that I had to do this in order to get the chance to make the difference. We have two children. Our oldest son is emotionally and behavioral disturbed and he has night terrors. I've worked extremely hard to get him to a better place in the last year. All of it was thrown away when my husband went out the door. My little guy crashed and burned. He couldn't believe his daddy "didn't love him anymore". The night terrors returned in full swing. I needed to get him back in this house. Plan A is built on the assumption that the affair is still going on, right?

I have started anti-depressants. My emotions were very out of control. I was blind-sided and just lost it. I'm more level now but just sad. For me, sadness is workable. The craziness was not.

I've decided three things and I don't know if I'm right in doing this or not.

First-I have him back in the house so I will try and restore my family. I will work Plan A.

Second-I will also proceed as if he is going to leave. I've brought my sons therapist into the loop and she is going to revise his treatment plan around this situation.

Third- If nothing else, I'll have time to get myself in a financial situation so that I will not be ruined if/when he does walk away.

Am I crazy?

ReplacedInWI

***I asked him to stop talking to her and he said "no". He would not even discuss the possibility.***

Of course not. He wants BOTH of you and so far he has been able to bully you into going along with this.

You have a tough row to hoe here because your husband is so certain that he can bully you into anything that he is actually saying stuff like "I don't love you but if you don't let me [censored] you I will abandon you and our children."

Sounds pretty nasty, doesn't it? That's because it is.

Please do not go along with this. Please stop letting him scare you. Hon, he's ALREADY left, now hasn't he? His threatening you like this makes him the most disgusting sort of man. Please don't fall for this. He will never respect you as long as you are cowed into such a hideous arrangement.

***I can't do a Plan A if he isn't here***

Sure you can. At the end of this post I will reprint something that may help you.

***There were some "rules" posted. He can't talk to her in our house or around our children. Contact is limited to no more than once per day. He can not have contact with her while we are having time together. That kind of stuff.***

Just please, please, please do NOT expect him to follow these "rules". You can be sure he will throw them in your face just to watch you lose it again and call YOU crazy.

Now, you absolutely SHOULD tell him directly that all of his behavior is extremely hurtful and damaging to you and your family. Just remember that not one of these "rules" is enforceable. You should fully expect him to flaunt and break all of them, because he will, so do not be shocked and upset when he does.

***Our oldest son is emotionally and behavioral disturbed and he has night terrors. I've worked extremely hard to get him to a better place in the last year. All of it was thrown away when my husband went out the door. My little guy crashed and burned. He couldn't believe his daddy "didn't love him anymore". The night terrors returned in full swing.***

I'm so sorry about your son. Do not shield your WH from this. Make sure he knows the effects his actions are having on his own children.

***Plan A is built on the assumption that the affair is still going on, right?***

Yes. Here - try this:


"The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" by Pepperband

THE CARROT OF PLAN A:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

is it possible to get her email adress a phone number from your phone company of the calls made from your house i kinda became an expert over the last month finding things out id be happy to share them with you

I have her cell phone number and he has never called her from our house. He only calls her cell phone. Remember, she's also married so they mostly us text messages, online chat and cell phones. I don't know how do to anything about her part of the situation.

Read up on the info here and then expose her to her H.
Do a background check on her.

L.

I must be totally stupid because I don't understand how Plan A can work if he is living 2 hours away and I don't have contact with him. Making home warm and inviting doesn't matter if he never sees it. Improving myself will not make a bit of difference to him if he only sees it once we get to divorce court. I'm not understanding how to do this if we are not living together. I must be missing something.

The other problem is that he doesn't want me. We are not sleeping together. He is only in my bed until the kids fall asleep. Then he goes to the other room. He's not interested in me sexually. He has not made a single advance.

I asked him to come back. Just as I asked him to leave. He was ready to call it quits and had already cut himself off totally. If he is not in this house, then we have no contact other than a possible phone call every now and then. I work early and he works late. We have a few hours in the evening where I have to try and get Plan A in place. Without those few hours, without this arrangement, I may as well head right for the court house.

Please tell me what I'm missing or misreading.

ReplacedInWI

From her cell number, you may be able to at least find out what part of the country she lives in -- try entering it in Google and see what comes up. If you're very lucky, she might have it registered with one of the cell phone phone book services.

And spyware on the computer can get you her screen name. That may not help much, but there's always the possibility it could be useful info (I found out who my H's OW was that way -- her screen name was her first initial and last name!). See if you can look up a profile on her -- she might give more info there.

Until you can find her H and expose there (which I'm certain will be the ultimate way to put pressure on ending the affair), who else can you expose to? His family? Yours? Friends, pastors ... ?

I think you're being smart planning for the contingency. And I also think you've at least made a start with setting some boundaries. I know how hard that is, I can hear myself in many of the things you write. So you're taking a big step and making a good start. But keep going. It's ok -- even expected -- In Plan A for you to say "It's not ok for you to be committing adultery." You are making home and family a safe, attractive, comfortable place .... but that doesn't mean that you make it safe and comfortable for him to carry on his affair. So the idea is to set clear boundaries calmly and as gracefully as you can ... without any screaming, crying or begging. Every time he mentions her or goes out to call her or whatever, you call it adultery and tell him that you have a plan for rebuilding a really fantastic marriage once he ends his adulterous relationship. No fights, no arguing, just calmly stating facts. It's hard, but it feels so good once you start doing it. It's great to realize that you don't have to help him betray you.

Lots and lots and lots of WS's tell the BS that they don't love them anymore, that they don't want them, that they're only there for the children, and about a million other really hurtful things. It's really, really hard to do, but try not to take those things personally. When you get a chance, look up Orchid's reverse babble thread. It's nice to have some handy responses to those things. You can't believe a word he says while he's in this A -- even the mean words that cut to the core. None of them are true.

It sounds like you've got some work ahead of you. You can do it. In the meantime, what are you doing to take care of YOU?

I'm so sorry you're in this situation, but this is a great place to learn and get support since you are.

I didn't even have a name when I started an internet research on OW.

All I had was a cell phone number too. There are investigative services on the web that can do a reverse search. The one I did cost $65.00 and gave me the name the phone number was registered to, the land line associated with the account and the billing address. That gave me a good start.

From there I used Intellius to track down her parents, brothers, grandparents, etc based on her home town.

Then I exposed to her family.

If you can reverse search the cell number you may be able to contact her husband. Should you be able to get her name you can see if she's listed in the white pages online. If that fails, google her name. I googled the OW's last name and came up with the birth announcement of her brother's child. That's how I got their name and subsequently their phone number. The internet can be your friend.

You need to expose. He will be SO angry, but he'll get over it. Mine spewed hatred and told me I'd ruined all chances of ever working on things, he hated me, never wanted to see me, couldn't believe what a vindictive B**** I was. Blah blah blah. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Looking back it was no different from my 2 year old throwing a tantrum when he didn't get what he wanted. Pathetic.

Next, Plan A your behind off.

Plan A does assume he is still in the affair. Assume he lies to you about everything and you won't ever be disappointed.

Read up on being a "lighthouse".... I'll try to find that thread by Ark. It is what was the basis for my Plan A.

My situation was similar to yours in that OW was very far away and the A was continued via phone and email from our home.

We made the rule that he couldn't call from the house. Of course he broke it... all the time. ** Read the end of this post for a funny story on that one. Hope it can make you smile ** But, he had to knowingly break another agreement we made each time he called her. I simply stated how I felt hurt and disrespected each time I found out and that he was disrespecting our children by turning their home and sanctuary into a place where he committed adultry.

Use the words adultry and mistress every time you talk of his actions. Don't pretty it up. He likes to call her his girlfriend because who wants to say "my adulterous relationship" or "my mistress". Don't pretty up an ugly and disgusting situation for him.

When he says "my girlfriend". Say, "Are we talking about your adultry partner?" Never let him sugar coat it.

Refuse to discuss divorce. You don't do divorce. You do marriage. Make it very clear that you will not participate in divorce talk or action in any way other than to protect your interests as well as the childrens.

When he asks what you mean by that, just repeat that it means protecting your interests as well as the childrens. Don't threaten him, but don't give him any ammo anyway. Let him decide what you mean by that. Let him consider what divorce will cost.

I wouldn't have him move out. I didn't. It's much easier to let him see what he will be walking out on if he's there to see it everyday. Invite him to participate in as many enjoyable family activities as possible. If he refuses, fine. Do them anyway and later tell him how much you wished he would have been there. Tell him it would have been better if he were. Make him be the one to separate himself from the family if that's what he wants.

That's a good start. My baby is crying so I need to go. But here is that story....

** We were supposed to be going downstairs to watch a movie with our 3 kids in about 30 minutes. I was finishing up something first. He decided he was going to take the baby downstairs (to the basement) to play.

Now, this was odd. This was NEVER done. I thought it was really weird but just smiled and said okay.

When I turned around I realized that the phone wasn't on it's charger. HMMMMMM....thinks I.

So, I wait until he gets just about to the top of the stairs..... and push the page/find phone button.

He started beeping!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

He just about jumped out of his skin and the phone fell out of his shirt.

Too funny.

He was trying to sneak off and call her using the baby as an excuse to be alone.

The aliens. You sometimes just have to shake your head.**

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I thought my situation was about as odd as they get. It the last few days I've learned that is simply not the case. My situation is almost textbook. That gives me a great deal of hope!

I've exposed to his family and all of our mutual joint friends. I called a few of his friends too. Just said, "Hey... did you know..? None of them did and were not really happy about it. Most of them know her from the gaming circle and couldn't believe it. His best friend is getting married in just over a month. He couldn't believe my WS was doing this.

I can't believe I didn't think of using the cell phone directory. I know she lives in Irvine, CA. My best friend lives there and she is more than willing to get the information to the husband. I will have to do that search right away.

Thanks again!!

ReplacedInWI

FIM - I remember that story. It was one of the funniest that I've read here.

Once I calmed down some more (this morning), I was able to put together all of the information I really have on her. I know that she is a student and I have an idea where she goes to school. I found her in the schools directory. It was listed by area of study so I'm pretty sure I have the right person.

With that I did another search. Now I have her address and home phone number. I also ordered an investigative report on her name and address just to cross reference.

I don't want to send the wrong person over the edge. I'm double checking because the reverse lookup on the cell phone number gave me totally different information. It's possible the cell phone is from her parents. This report should tell me that.

WS is a computer wizard so I can't get anything from his computer. That thing is tighter than Fort Knox! I have to do it this way. I'm sure I'm heading in the right direction.

I'll update soon.

ReplacedInWI