the answer to this question is no.
this is not how it will be forever. Because you will not allow it. eventually, if things continue like this, you will become "fed up" with his behavior, and eventually you will say "I want to be loved, and cherished, and adored. apparantly you will not/can not do that for me, so here is the D paper, please sign on the line"

you see - he has made enough bad choices in your life. He does not get to make the rest of your choices for you. You do get to have some control over your life. You need to understand that, so you can finally say "I WILL enjoy my life, with him, or without him. If HE wants to be with ME then he will have to start treating me better" You need to get back to that woman you were before you met him. the woman he was attracted to in the beginning. right now you are both feeling old, tired, and road weary. But that doesn't have to last forever.

w-o-f, thank you. In a way I already feel "fed up" with all of the crap. It just seems so backwards, so maniuplative on his part, that he could do all the bad stuff, and then get to act like a snot about it, like, he'll come around when HE's ready. In actuality, I should be giving him the cold shoulder. I should be telling him when I'M ready.
But I guess it doesn't work that way, here in Affair Land ...

It's very hard. But I promise you it is worth it, because he will either come around, or he won't. If he doesn't, you will have the peace of mind of knowing you did your very best. You'll be excited about unloading him.

If he does "get it", you can look forward to having a much better marriage than before.

I blew it last night. Tried to be a "hero" for the weekend, but I failed.

I guess I has an "attitude" as he called it. I was just quiet, hurting. He asked me what was up. I said that I didn't feel like anything was changing. Then he got a real attitude. He said something, wasn't it enough that he's home now, and why do I keep pressuring him. He was so mean. We were laying in bed. He gave me the most unfeeling hug, like he was just doing it because he thought he had to. Then he rolled away from me. I said I just needed to feel loved. He told me to leave him alone, he was going to sleep. And that's what he did. I'm just in so much pain right now.

My therapist says to set boundaries. One of them would be that I need to be treated better than this. But I don't get better treatment. So, he crosses the boundary. What do I do? What do I do when he crosses the boundary? That's my question.

I've just done so much for him. I got his kids to come around. I'm trying to make a home for him again. But he acts as though he's the one doing me all the favors.

Sometimes, I want to crawl in a hole and die ...

No it doesn't, dear RLTraveled.
Doing a Plan A IS a hero's thing to do. And you can't be a hero 24/7.

I would like to tell you a story, don't know if it helps.

When I was 8 years old, the place where we had to park our bikes was right next to a dog's cage. It was a very angry dog, barking and growling at everyone who passed there. This went on and on until one afternoon when there was no school I decided to do something about it.

I went to the empty school yard, to the place where the dog's cage was. And I sat down in front of it. The dog, of course, started barking and growling and doing all sorts of menacing things. I waited. He continued. I waited. He went on and on... I don't know for how long, but it seemed like a long time.

I just sat there, calm, for some strange reason confident (I had never had a dog so I had no idea what would happen).

And then.. he stopped.
He came to the fence that seperated us and sniffed my hand, wagging his tail.
And we became friends.

Looking back on it, I basically Plan A-ed the dog. While he had no intention of letting me near - in fact, telling me to back off, get lost.. I just remained calm, giving no signal of agression, waiting for him to come around.

Maybe it's a strange analogy?
But if you can think (or try to) of your WH as a barking dog... maybe that can make you smile a little inside and make you stronger.

Try and find help, from friends, from family, a counselor, your church if you go to one. Even if you can't tell them about the A, find ways to keep your mind occupied positively. I know it's hard, an A is totally consuming. Working out at a gym also helps - to get rid of the anger build up.

You will need all the help you can get. Take good care of yourself. Don't expect any help from the "barking dog" - he's looking out for himself, not for you, and will not do so until he calms down because he feels safe enough to.

(((rltraveled))))
Keep posting/venting here my dear.
That's what we are here for.

Listen to BH. She knows her stuff.... if she can tame an angry dog...... any Ws s/b putty in her hands and c/b in yours too!....Why? Because often we don't realize how much power and strength we really have until we need it.

Take care,
L.

Er.. I did have a fence between me and the dog.
You'll need a fence, too, RLT, to feel safe and strong enough to do this.
I would suggested you forge one out of all the love and affirmation you can get from your family and friends, your beliefs, your counselor, your good memories, whatever can give you strength.
And maybe - don't know if other MB'ers will back this up? - if you feel you might lose it and start LB'ing, crying, blaming... walk out for a little while. You should perhaps tell WH beforehand that you might do this to prevent yourself from lashing out. So don't use it as punishment, just as a tool to get yourself back together.

(P.S. I did have a run-in with a agressive dog on Kauai without any fence... but that's another story <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

I have family and friends who help, but ultimately I find that my insecurities get the best of me. Like right now, I'm looking at the clock every five minutes to see how much longer till he comes home. Last night things were left hanging and I wonder what he'll do, if he'll do or say anything. My guess is, knowing him for so long, he will just ignore it, pretend it didn't happen. I just don't understand how you can treat somebody that you say you love, in this manner. I know I need to be strong. I just wonder sometimes, what am I even doing? Is he ever going to change, ever going to see the light? Or will he just walk around in a fog, being disconnected from me, his kids, his family ... forever. I know I can't change him.

I guess when he comes home, I just need to find my strength and leave it alone, don't talk about anything he doesn't want to talk about. I just don't know where it will all lead in the end.

Before all of this started, did he ever do anything for YOU?

Good question, believer. I always thought he had. But I remember once, I needed gall bladder surgery. He took me to the hospital, dropped me and the corner and went to work. Didn't even walk me inside.

He was never enthusiastic about doing stuff around the house. If I asked, it was always an inconvenience. He'd do it with a chip on his shoulder half the time.

When I told him I felt nothing was changing, I was referring also to his coming home from work each day, eating dinner, sitting on the chair and watching TV all hours, sometimes falling asleep.

I'm still thinking on it ... did he do anything for me ... like what?

Well, did you have intimacy, like sharing joyful things, problems, fears and stuff?

Most men don't want to help around the house, though, so I wouldn't take away points for that.

Did he work hard to provide, fix the car, do that yard, help with the kids?

He's always been emotionally distant. He will share feelings, etc., but only to a point. I think he has a fear of intimacy. He works hard, but no, he doesn't fix the car, grumbles at yard work. And the only thing he put his heart in with the kids was baseball because he loves the sport. But homework and their every day problems, I was mostly left to deal with.

Actually that could be what would drive someone to have an A. If the right (or wrong, for that matter) person comes along and says the right, comforting words...
But you didn't fall into that trap. So you're the stronger one, aren't you ?

Don't focus on your pain or your needs right now. There will be plenty of time to process all that when your WH is a FWH. Please give it time - right now, you're so hurt that it's hard to find out what the possibilities are for your M.

FHW? As in, no longer in the affair?

I believe he is no longer in the affair. However, I'm almost certain that he is suffering from withdrawal.

And yes, when I look at it, emotional needs and all that, really I should have been the one to step out but I didn't.

We did the EN questionairre (he did so reluctantly). According to that, I was meeting most all of his emotional needs. He wasn't, and isn't, meeting mine.

If he is in withdrawl, he's still focussing more on the A than on your M. But if there no longer is any contact with OW, and you stick to plan A, there's every chance he'll come out of the fog. Hang on.

About the EN thing - yeah, I know, it was exactly the same thing with my WH. He couldn't be bothered with meeting my EN's, it was just too much "work" or he didn"'t want to change his habits/hobbies "just" for that. Still, he was the one to have to A. Perhaps because he was used to looking after HIS needs, or have them looked after?

His top EN was admiration. Now that's a particulary tough one for a recently BS ! But I did. I tried to separate the "foggy WH" from the person that I once loved, and focus on that, and find good things to say whenever I could.
But it wasn't enough, not in my case. Some people have no bottom in their love bank - whatever you (or anyone else) puts in their, simply falls through. They need to fix their tank <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.

My H also has a high need for admiration, little for affection, like me. He knows my EN's now from the survey, but doesn't try to fill them.

So plan A, I should try to fill them even though he doesn't fill mine? That is heroic. Ughh!!!

How long did your H stay in his fog? What signs should I look for that his fog might be lifting at some point?

I think he is in withdrawal. I would continue to meet his needs, but drop all relationship talk for now. You are probably wasting your time.

It is not good for a woman to give to much. It makes the man pull away, and take her for granted.

I would admire something he does, or something you like about him, and then get busy doing your own thing. Fix up the house, start a garden, clean the toilets, be happy doing something.

Then he may wonder what is up.

Be cheerful and loving and then get involved in something and leave him alone, and give him space.

Yes... it is heroic and ughh.
That's because it's a PLAN, not something you're supposed to keep doing all your life - that would make you a doormat.

The idea is that you work hard at being the best person you can be, without overdoing it - don't say things you don't really mean. But don't hold back nice things because you feel like punishing him.
Thank him for littling things too, whatever they are.
And if possible - say positive things about him to others, things you really mean - that might come back to him and really make him wondering.
But again - don't overdo it, he might feel like you're just saying those things 'cause you're afraid of losing him !

My H wasn't in love with OW, so no fog there. His problems were rooted a lot deeper. I was the best person I could be - but not what he needed. He made me the Madonna, and need "******" to be his bad-boy self with (the Madonna-****** complex it's called).

I think Bob Pure's story is a lot like yours, try to read up on his older posts (2 years ago). His WW was deep in love with OM, or so she thought, but Bob stuck to his plan A, and it worked. Hard work - but worth it.

If there's any chance for your M, you are giving it the best shot by implementing plan A. With a time limit.

But if he's home now ... and not seeing OW ... aren't I in recovery? If I AM in recovery, do I still plan A him?

We had a not too good weekend because I blew it. I tried to take advice here, but my insecurities got the best of me. I talked to him. He HATED it. He doesn't want to talk about the A. He says it makes him feel too guilty, and that I am rubbing his nose in it. He says he doesn't feel like things are changing. He says I'm trying to "Consume" him. He gives me no words of comfort. He looks for reasons to be angry at me. He doesn't show much affection, and when he does, it's only to throw me a crumb. I think he feels like he's won. He had his fun. Now he's home. I got the kids to talk to him. So it's like he's gotten away with it. I make him dinner. He eats. He sits on the chair and watches TV. He goes to bed. He gets up and goes to work. He gets everything, it seems. I get nothing, nothing but this terrible pain.

I woke up this morning and couldn't get it all out of my brain, he sleeping with someone else, making plans with her.

We're going to Disney in September. We go there every year. Us and my extended family. But it will be different this time because just in April, he took her there. How will I do this? Someone tell me how I will enjoy myself, go on the rides, walk through the parks, our parks, knowing that he strolled hand in hand with her there. How will I do this, guys?

I'm sick and desperate and wondering if I should even try anymore. Wondering if I'm doing the right thing sticking it out with him. What will I get? What is my prize? Just more of the same?

He's giving me little to hang onto.

Well, yes..in a sense..

It's a play on words...

Plan A was supposed to have been about genuine self-improvement that you have continued until now...



What are you doing RL? I haven't kept up with your story lately. However, early recovery does not involve a lot of relationship talk on your own as a couple.

This is because your FWH should be in withdrawal for at least 3 to 6 months. This is a process of HEALING for him.



He is not ready to meet your ENs, RL. Recovery is HARD..harder than the other plans.


The focus needs to change towards how to take care of yourself without expecting him to do this now. We have to get YOU ready to withstand Recovery....

You may be blowing this for yourself with overly high expectations of your FWH....