I'm feelng rather blue today. This has not happened in a bit. cried yesterday morning, last night, on the way to work today. too much crying!!!

i'm looking at the empty part of the glass instead of the filled part.

i'm possibly just slipping into self-pity.

i don't want to be like this.

{{FL}} Anything hormonal going on with you? I know my worst swings are during those hormonal days.

yes, started friday night.

although normally for me, it's the days before it starts that is worse, emotionally.

i was sad friday night, but fought it off before too many tears. i was sad sat morning, closed myself into a room, cried a little, fought it off, went to the other side of the room to get a tissue and on the way back i hit the corner of a piece of furniture. it hurt really bad, i have a huge bruise now. i burst into tears big time then but since it was for physical pain i just let myself cry it out.

last night i cried before bed and then again this morning...

makes me tired!!

That's a lot of crying to do. Is there anything else going on?

((((((FL))))))

I hope today is better for you! Things are going to look up, you just wait and see! I'm thinking about you!

((((((FL))))))

Have a great fourth! You can do it! Your friends help you stand strong on bad days, just think of us, pat yourself on the back, and smile because you are amazing!

Believer, nothing else is really going on, it could be due to the time of month. it could be that i'm just too stressed. work is so hard right now, very stressful. in fact i got called in this morning, i didn't get home till 11 am and then i had so much house cleaning to get done.

the kids did a great job helping me. DH went shopping with me and mowed the lawn so we were all helping. That was very good for me to have the help.

By the way, boy did i LOVE that post about how you set up the OWXH!!! I don't post to you often (honestly too much shame cuz i'm on the other side of the fence), but i read a lot of your updates. you are such a classy person.

NeedingComfort, thank you for your kind words too. They mean so very much. So often i feel like such an outsider.

Anyway, no negative talk from me right now, I have a shower to take and a MIL to entertain.

I was going to bump this up to ask for other words of encouragemennt maybe specifically from other FWSs who after working really hard trying to make ammends and better than selves finally saw that their BSs really did heal.

I read enough of the BHs posts to understand just how much he is hurting. DH does not tell me directly although last night he made mention to how "something was taken away from him".

It's so hard to face it all day after day. Day after day to see even more clearly that healing may not really ever happen, that the damage done really is pernament. I used to give Bob a hard time when he would refer to how the hurt will never really go away, the scar will always be there. I'm glad for how honest he always is, it helps me understand how my husband feels without having to debate it with him.

And I was thinking about how encouraging Bob and other BSs are to others about perservering, being the man of the family. there was a really good one he wrote recently to someone, i forget who.

Anyway, i'm wondering, are there any FWSs out there that have made it thru the worst of it and could do the same thing. Tell me to perserver. I really could use encouragement sometimes.

i am sure someone will eventually say to me, have you accepted forgiveness from God? have you forgiven yourself? The thing is, that does not matter to me so much. Yes I actually have accepted God's forgiveness, I don't think I am outside of His Grace anymore and i do think i have forgiven myself, at least partailly. I have changed quite a bit and i do give myself credit for that.

But the remorse can still be so unbelievable hard to live with. Words just cannot describe it.

and once again, i think i better stop now...

you both have a great forth two. thanks.

FL

Does it matter if your H doesn't heal ? Can't you just recognise the areas of irrepairable damage in your lives and live the best you can despite it ? Thats been working for us for a while.

Don't feel like your marriage is a failure because your H can't ever dismiss the eviscerating damage that was done to him.

Just because I can probably never be whole again, doesn't mean I can't be happy. Ask any paralympian <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Fix what you can, bear what you can't. Live as victoriously as possible while you do it. Then if miraculous total healing comes, it will be an additional blessing, not final permission to live. This way you will have been living all along....

all blessings

hey bob, yes it does matter to me actually but i can also live the best i can despite it.

what you said is exactly what my DH would say. His general response is, "it could be worse". and i agree it could be worse.

i dont feel the marriage is a failure because he cannot heal more. it is a faillure because of what i have done.

i know you advice is sound and i appreciate it. somedays "bearing the part i can't" is overwhelming.

can i ask you a question?

from your perspective is it an LB to let a BS see the stuggles of the FWS? I think it is for him so i've been trying to hide it when i feel extra bad, but then i feel like i am living a lie. not to mention, i'm not really good at hiding it... i mean, there is plenty of times he has not seen my tears (like at work...) but there are many times he has seen them. and when it happens, he will hug me but it seems to be a struggle, i'm starting to wonder if i am disrespecting his hurt by showing him mine. he has said things like, it's not possible for him to comfort me because of what it is regarding, know what i mean?

i realize the healthest thing for me is to get better at managing myself, get better at "bearing what i can't fix", somedays i really am better at it than others.

i know the pressure at work is a factor in all this too.

from your perspective is it an LB to let a BS see the stuggles of the FWS?

FL

It was absolutely NECCESSARY for me to see the guilt, shame and regret of Squid. It was reinforcing to know hat she was regretful and almost as disgusted by her behaviour as I was.

Also it helped engender my sympathy for her situation. I do think this is required to recover.

Where it hasn' helped is Squids shame and regret has paralysed her recovery actions for a while. Thats loosened now, but it was frustrating for a while there.

All blessings

If your H is the BS, he needs to see your tears and be an active participant in your recovery and you in his.

Have you read His needs/Her needs by Dr. Harley? Couple that info with the ENs on both sides and see how you can help each other. This M recovery stuff requires RH (radical honesty) and POJA by each of you.

L.

Bob, thanks for the reply. Can you expand on how her shame and regret paralysed her recovery actions? could i be doing the same?

I don't know if it is at all re-inforcing to DH to see my struggles. Mostly I figure I just should focus more and more on getting thru this on my own. I think it was sunday night that I finally ended up crying in front of DH. He did hug me and say it could be worse, but then he fell alseep fast (i take that as a sign that me being upset stresses him out and he shuts down). He did offer to let me wake him up if i needed to. So that was nice. But I don't know, somehow the hug and offer just doesn't seem do anything for me. and that is not good. should it be? cuz truthfully, his response actually makes me feel even more hopeless.

The next morning he didn't call me till 11:30. (I leave for work before he wakes up.) That plain old hurt. I felt neglected.

On one hand I fear that our relationship is being damaged because of this, on the other hand I also figure that it is certainly in my power to stop the damage by forgiving any hurts along the way. I think it was pep that said I need to forgive his imperfections more. Hopefully in time, things will be different. (yeah, i know hope is not a plan...)

Hi Orchid, DH disagrees. He does not think it is at all his responsibility to help me get over hurting him so badly!! his words, his exclamation points.

Neither of us have read His Needs/Her Needs, although I have read a lot of the articles here so I'm thinking I do get the jist of it all. I finally gave him the ENQ. We are supposed to talk about it sometime in early to mid July.

Can you expand on how her shame and regret paralysed her recovery actions? could I be doing the same?

Squid has only recently started opening up to me about these things. Her shame prevented her from being able to examine her actions and its consequences for fear that she may see yet more evil and damage as consequences. A fear that examining the wreckage might cause more damage. A fear that if she discussed it with me I might "come to my senses" and kick her out for behaving in such a foul and unconscionable manner.

When we discussed her affair after d-dat teh result was usually that I would get upset thank her for her honesty, go away and cry my eyes out. She prescribed then that sharing how she felt, or discussing the affair especially any positive feeling she may have about it was extremely damaging to me and so she clammed up tight wanting to prevent any further hurt to me.

Add those things together and you have a girl paralysed from taking any recover action unless dragged screaming by the hair.

I don't think you're doing that.

What I have been surprised to read though, FL, is that you have not been studying MB texts like HN/HN.

The articles on these boards are great but no substitute for the books. HN/HN is about fixing problems in marrige, not only recovering from an affair. You should read this, become enthused and start applying some of the tenets to your life.

Harley talks about how one partner can lead the other to intimacy, so your H need not buy in straight away.

Study how to build a great marrige FL, don't guess. Harley is likely smarter than us at this stuff ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All blessings.

well bob, i suppose i could try to give you lots of reasons(excuses) as to why i have not read it but i suppose we both know it would be nonsense.

i've been thinking a lot about it since i first read your post.

sometimes i not sure i don't fear success as much as failure.

when i start to lose weight, i sabatoge myself. why?

am i starting to feel good about myself about something, so i have screw it up to remind myself i'm a loser deep down?

i know only i can answer the above questions.

here is another question that haunts me, does DH really actually like me? because i have huge doubts.

my kids really like me, i know this beyond a shadow of a doubt. why? because we enjoy each other's company so much, we laugh and we talk, we share. we are grumpy towards each other sometimes but never for long. they laugh at my sense of humor, they like to hang out and do things, we just have fun together.

i have never had those sorts of feelings with my DH.

from the beginning, he was quicker to point out my bad points and say nothing about good ones.

he never liked my sense of humor.

he never enjoyed discussing movies.

he didn't want to join me and do things that i liked.

he didn't think it "necessary" for me to join him.

i think these old judgements that i have made is really holding me back.

i want to do all i can to make ammends, no doubt about that.

but you are right, i'm not doing all i can to build a great marriage.

i suppose i must be making some baby steps towards it though. i did finally give him the ENQ.

i don't know bob, what if no matter what we still end up with the fact that maybe he just does not really like me?

i mean, that does not mean i am not likable. i actually do like my sense of humor, my ability to enjoy life, to be silly.

but everyone is different, i may just not be his type.

what if our opinions of what a good marriage/relationship is are fundementally different?

Hello FL,

Would you PLEASE read the darned book. Bob is right about it. Next READ your own darned post. You just said
You then list that your H does not like your sense of humor, your ... whatever.

Don't you think you have carried this a bit too far. He needs to see you in your struggles, but he needs even more to see you smile, laugh, enjoy yourself around him. The man needs a light in his life and that light should be you.

FL I think sometimes you take yourself too seriously. Your recovery depends on you enjoying life again, perhaps changing jobs ( I know we discussed that a long time ago), but you need to have things to look forward to and so does he. Discuss these things for awhile, discuss having things you both do that you look forward to.

You know full well I have been in neither of your shoes. But, I have been around more than a few people in my life, and I will tell you the ones that are the healthiest and have the best marriages are the ones that can take joy from and in their lives. It is like a magnet it attracts other people and lifts them. Have you considered that you could do this? You should consider it.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

FL

If you read NH/HN you will learn that it is our intinct to GIVE in ways that we like to RECEIVE. this can be counterproductive as I have learned in my own situation.

What you can learn to do is find out the ways that your spouse likes to be invested in ( Emotional needs as defined by Harley) and you can practice showing you rlove for him in ways HE appreciates, not ways that you do.

I know from my own experience that these efforts are almost always uninstinctive and that our efforts to meet them can be clumsy and gauche to begin with, but the payback can be huge.

For example, I like affection and romantic gestures so I gave Squid affection and romantic gestures for YEARS. Turns out she felt I was buying her off easily so I wouldn't have to invest any time in truly LISTENING to her. In some way she was right - talking in and of itself is not highly valued by me, but to Squid it is gold, jewels and God's garland crown of blessings!.

So I started to make time to truly listen to Squid. And she ADORES it ! Feels that I am interested in her and she feels interestING. Validated. And she loves to converse.

* brutal honesty warnng! * I am not fascinated by some of the topics we discuss, but I learned to look past that and see that SQUID was exercised by these topics and because I love her i should try to understand her issues. I have learned a lot about her opinions and life that I never knew in the previous 19 years of marriage.

And I cannot overemphasise how delighted Squid is to have me listen without critiquing. PROPELY listen, that is hear, qualify and feed back her points in my own words to show I was really listening. She will come up to me when I am doing someting else and say " come and talk with me baby" and i find she poured me a drink and laid out a chair for me next to her.

And I never knew....

So FL, by reading HN/HN and intrnalising it you can start to find out what your H's priorities are and you can start meeting his needs in ways he values. Harley says this leads to romantic loveand i can only agree borne out in my own experience.

BTW Squid also is investing in meeting MY needs in ways I value, which again is huge progress.

Finally I agree with JL, and I think I've said this before; you have a tendency to be too intense in this FL. It is possible to have fun and LIVE while you recover - squid an' me are proof of that. Mutual meeting of ENs makes two people compatable. It will take MUTUALITY at some point though.

All blessings

JL, Bob,

thanks for the replies (you people are a pain in the b*tt, she says under her breath...)

more later...

fyi, i say you are a pain because i so badly want to tell you both why what you say is soooo simple to write but NOT POSSIBLE!!! but, i would be wrong or at the very least, i would be sounding so dang defeatest and depressing (to you and worse, to me) so i prefer you convince me it is possible than me convince you it is not!!!

FYI to YOU

you compose a thread titled "I need a pep talk"

.... and you get some "pep" responses

then, you respond



..... just pay attention

you ask for something

you are given that something

then you reject it after having asked for it

a pattern I've long noticed

Pep <~~~ the girl, not the talk

EXAMPLE:

[color:"blue"]Tell me, how do I look today?[/color]

[color:"red"] I think you look really pretty today.[/color]


[color:"blue"]No I don't look pretty. You're only saying that because I asked you to. You don't really think so.[/color]

Its possible because I've done it FL.