I was reading another thread, "How can a BS help a WS with NC" and saw something in there that reminds me so much of myself and that I know I need to work on for self-improvment and it's one thing H also mentioned to me before. I just don't know how to change:

I do not accept criticism well. Yet I find myself giving what I call constructive criticism to others. When H says something to me I feel like I am under attack and my battle gear goes on. I immediately become defensive and feel like I have to defend myself against the attack. I know this is not the right thing to do yet I find myself having a hard time not doing this. I know I need to change this I just don't know how.

Everytime I do this I know I am pushing H further and further away. Instead of feeling good that he is trying to be open and honest with how he feels about some of the things I do, I feel attacked and then I start defending.

I have a hard time with silence. For example, H talks slower then I do, so when he will say something, I will think he is finished and then I will reply. It's not that I mean to do this, I just can never tell when he is finished. When we were in MC'g it was even noticed by the MC'r that it's hard to tell when H is finished talking and that yes I do jump in. MC'r asked H if he would hold up his hand or something to indicate he's finished.

Some say Silence is golden. Short of wearing duct tape I don't know how to keep silent especially when I feel I am under attack. Any suggestions?

Hi, LH. I had to respond because I too feel attacked and take it personally when I am criticized.

My first reaction is to attack right back!

I have learned a few tools that help through IC and by taking the Meyers-Briggs PErsonality test.

Now, when someone criticizes me, I say "Thank you> I appreciate your input> I will have to think about that for a while." And Walk AWAY! Or change the subject.

DO NOT engage. THis serves 2 purposes. 1. It gives you a chance to think things thorugh and see if what is said is true. 2. By saying thank you, you are validating that the person who said it has feelings and that you HEARD them.

I know it is hard and my first reaction is still to demolish them. BUt I do feel better when I succeed. ANd it also builds trust as the person who said this feels that you will listen to them.

Thank you fightingalone for your reply. I will mentally practice the words you suggested until hopefully they become second nature.

Do you then ever go back later and acknowledge that they were right or try to explain your point, or just let it drop?

I've always thought that God won't give us more then we can handle and yet I find myself questioning that a lot lately. Between issues with son and hubby and now the most recent with my truck being stolen I really think it's to the point that I am finally beaten down.

My son has apparently given several versions of what happened to my truck to the detective and is not willing to testify. So based on this my truck is not considered stolen and yet, all I know at this point is I do not have a vehicle now nor do I have the money to buy one.

I have no strength or desire to fight with or for anything anymore. I am now at a point that I feel like I am just existing. I feel trapped and hopeless right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Yes I do go back. BUT only after I have given it time AND space. And had the conversation with myself. I know my own triggers pretty well.

I write down what I "heard" them say. I study it. And whenTHe anger and the fear is manageable, THEN I migh ask to address it again.

A technique that is commonly used not only in IC but in work place resoltuon, is to make sure that there are no "YOU " statements. That is ALL things that you say MUST start with "I feel". MUCH harder to do. Becasue you cannot say I feel YOU BLAH BLAH.

Another way to approach it is to say, I heard you say :BLAH" is that what you meant? Or, ASK for clarification. ANything that starts with YOU ALWAYS is not good.

Loving:

God does not give you more than you can handle. HE is right there with you..holding you in HIS ARMS. Believe in HIM. Have FAITH in HIM and HE will direct you and lead you. He will see you through all of this.

In my belief system, the Devil is out to destroy you and your family and to encourage you to turn away from HIM.

Get your Bible out and read PSALMS...you will find comfort there...

And I will continue to PRAY FOR YOU...

Thank you everyone. Your prayers and thoughts have helped me a lot. While things haven't improved as far as Hubby, son or my truck, I seem to be more at peace within myself.

I am growing and learning a lot about myself in this process and as much as I wish I wasn't forced on this roller coaster of a ride I will manage to finish the ride one way or the other. No matter what the outcome may be I will have grown a lot a long the way and discovered a lot about myself.

H has been home since last Thursday night, when he came over in a foul mood complaining about the fact that I was taking the OW back to court in an effort to have the OOP removed. I tried to explain to him it has nothing to do with revenge, and is more about me wanting to live my own life. I told him that if he didn't understand the consquences of someone having an OOP filed against them he should speak to an attorney about this. Nothing has been said about it since that night.

He is back to sitting outside in the evenings staring at the stars. I have no idea if he is in withdrawal or not. I pretty much let him be for the most part. I go outside and talk to him for a little bit but I stay away from relationship talk. A couple of nights ago while not much was said I found it enjoyable to at least sit outside with him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Maybe at the same time that I'm outside this may be filling one of his needs. How would I know if he's in withdrawal

I have no proof either way but I still believe he is at least in contact with OW either by telephone or email. I have noticed he keeps his bag (contains toothbrush, mouthwash, etc) in his car and brings it in the house at night. This tells me it's just a matter of time before he winds up back at the OW's house. I'm thinking if he begs her enough she will wind up giving in and letting him return.

My tears over this are pretty much over. I had thought he wouldn't be home last night and while I didn't cry, it was more like I was resigned to the fact. If and when this happens I will simply write down the dates he is gone and make sure my attorney gets a copy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am not sure I am even in a plan right now. I guess the main thing I'm doing is to not LB and to focus on me. I do not go out of my way to try to do things for H and I invite him along (which he is still declining) if I plan on going someplace but when he says NO, I go without him. I'm don't think I will ever look at H the same as before. On one hand this may be a good thing as I always felt he was better then I but on the other hand, not sure this is good because now I'm starting to accept less and less from him.

FInancially I can't afford to go to Plan B although I think that is the Plan I should be on right now. I am hoping that by the time I can, that all love for my hubby won't be gone. Either way I know God will be by my side. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am still in individual counseling (today will be my 2nd session) and I will be asking the counselor where and what he feels I sould be focusing on.

I am also still in school (my first college class working on a AA degree) and my grades have been great throughout all of this. I currently have an A in this class. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm leaning towards skipping one semester and taking up Piano lessons. The piano seems to bring peace to me and I know I can use that right now. I'm also planning on doing some landscaping in my front yard.

I have no idea if I am heading in the right direction or not and I am trying to use the road map that is provided by everyone here that has walked in the same path before me.

Ladies, how did you continue to love your H throughout this? The rose colored glasses I use to wear are no longer there. I see a lot more things about H that I'm not willing to accept anymore. Have I changed, Has he Changed, Will our marriage survive? I know there are no real answers to those questions other then time and the sincerity of H and I to work to make things better and for now, I am not sure either one of us are really working on it.

Thanks to so many people here who have jumped on my roller coaster ride for a good part of my journey the last several months. If it wasn't for so many of you holding my hand throughout this, I'm not sure I would have made it as far as I have. While I still have a long way to go I am learning a lot about myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have been up and down more times on this board then I care to remember yet so many of you stuck by my side. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I think I am finally at a place where I can not only look at the past but also look towards the future.

H has been home 7 nights so far. I still think he's in contact with the OW either by cell phone or e-mail but I have no proof either way. I have noticed that he keeps taking his bag to the car that he keeps his toothbrush, razor and other items in. Based on his doing that, I think if the OW invites him back over he wouldn't hesitate to go. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> He's also back to not wearing his wedding ring anymore, and while a part of me wishes he would, the other part of me says why bother until and unless he's willing to work on the marriage.

A part of me thinks H is in withdrawal since for a few days he was back to sitting outside at night staring at the stars. I make every effort when he is doing this to go outside and spend a little time talking to him about everyday things. I do not try to smother him, and realize he needs time to work things out on his own.

Last night was the first night that he spent most of the night inside the house. He restrung his guitar and I asked him if the two of us could take son to shoot some pool. His first reply was, "I don't know". I said, Please let me know if you change your mind. I then went upstairs and a few minutes later son came up and said "Let's go". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Son and I manage to shoot one game of pool then son got carded and since his ID was stolen when my truck was taken we had to leave. Short but sweet evening since prior to this I couldn't even get H to do anything together.

No real reason for this message other then to share what's going on.

How long does it take from the time H and OW last see each other before withdrawal kicks in?

What are the signs of withdrawal?

What can I do to help him while in withdrawal?

After withdrawal does remorse kick in?

Why no hugs or kisses or anything from H? It makes me feel like I'm the OW. Is this normal?

How can I be his lighthouse if he is blinded by the OW?

At what point can I ask or try to find out where he stands as far as our marriage without LB'g?

Loving:

You're asking about Withdrawal but I don't think you're there yet.

I think Withdrawal, according to MB theory, starts when the WS has made a definite decision to end the A and plans not to ever see the OP again for life..ridding themselves of the OP.

Your H, in my opinion, is pining for her and wanting her and has not made the decision to end it with her..kind of like withdrawal but more lovesickness.

As you say, he will see her and talk to her and be with her whenever he can and is probably in continued contact with her.

IMO, where you are is continuing with PLAN A....for right now.



Remember: It's not about where HE stands. The WS wants to continue with the A..getting his drug as long as possible. It's about where YOU stand. How much of this can YOU tolerate? It's about YOUR PLAN. Assume that he will continue to live as you are living AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

IMO, where you are is continuing with PLAN A....for right now.


Interesting that you bring that up MiMi as that was a conversation I had with my IC'r yesterday. I do have a date in mind for going filing for a Legal Seperation and going to Plan B.

I wish it was something that wasn't so far off into the future but due to expenses I don't have much of a choice.

What worries me the most is that since it is so far from now that by the time it gets here I will have lost a lot of my love for my H.

There are so many things he has done already that I'm not sure that I can ever forgive. It's not the affair that I'm talking about when I say this.

But for now, my plans are to continue in Plan A, and do as great of a job as I can, which I think will on one hand it will be easier now because I am so much less emotional, however on the other hand, I find myself detaching some and I'm SCARED that I may detach so much that we won't stand a chance if both of us are detached at the same time.

One thing that is nice is since this OOP is in place it would be so much easier for H to spend time with the OW but yet he's at home (at least physically) for now. I do know that can change on any given day.

I'm sure he is fence sitting and since financially I am stuck I'm not sure that there is much I can do to knudge him off the fence one way or the other. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I still don't understand why H is so cold towards me. H has now been back at home 10 days. If he's still seeing the OW it would be very short visits as H is home when not working or when not in school. (I know he could go see her on his school nights but I really don't think he is). I'm not sure if he's emailing or calling her still. I figure I will just assume he is until I can validate he's not. Right now I'm not even checking. I'm sure some would say I am enabling the affair and perhaps to some degree I am since I don't ask him anything about it, but if I am enabling it then I'm doing it as a matter of survival.

I can not AFFORD to move out, pay for a legal seperation and still only have a rental car. While all of this is a MAJOR set back for me, I will survive and get stronger along the way. First step for me, a car (I will not go in debt for one which means I have to save until I can afford something that will get me back and forth to work). Once that is done, then I will save for the apartment and the attorney. I'm still not sure once I have the LS papers if I want to be the one to move out or have the LS state that he moves out. There are pros and cons on both, so I will have to weigh them while I'm saving some money.

I wish I could figure out why he is so indifferent towards me. Doesn't want to go out and do anything, no hugs, nothing from him. He's still sleeping no the couch.

I know I can't control how he acts around me, and I am working on being the best I can be. I'm not LB'g, but not going overboard trying to engage him in much anymore. One can only take so much rejection. What can I do now?

I am going out and doing things without him. I invite him to go and when he says No, I go without him. Are we just stuck here for now until things change financially?

I wonder if he's just waiting to see what happens with the Order of Protection when OW and I go back to court. It's kinda strange that he knows I can't go check on him at OW's house he chooses to stay home. This makes me wonder if she has tossed him out and now he hates me.

For the most overall, while this may not sound like it here, I am getting better. The tears have stopped for me. No more LB'g on my part, it's almost like I have closed my hurt to him and have detached from him. Is this normal?

I know if one changes nothing, then nothing changes. I've been changing, and I'm at my wits end. I need your help. Please what more can I do?

Uh Oh, I feel tears trying to come tonight. For some reason tonight I'm in a blue mood and I so want H to show me that he's still the man I fell in love with, the man I married, the one I have been married to for 25 years and yet all I see is a man that doesn't want to be near me, one that doesn't appear to love me, one that doesn't want to spend time with me, no words of affection, no hugs, nothing. I wish I could just SHAKE him and make him see what is actions are doing to us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Your mind and heart don't sound like they are in sync yet. Didn't you go to plan B earlier this month?

L.

No Orchid,

All alone my Plan B date was the end of Sep due to financial reasons, now with my truck being stolen by Son, then truck being stolen from son by someone he knows, I have no vehicle. As of now, the detective on the case says he can't list the truck as stolen since the one my son said took the truck told the detective my son drove off in the truck. So it looks like no $$$$$$ from insurance company on the truck.

Son said he did not drive off in the truck, person that took the truck from son told son's friend that truck is stashed in the woods someplace.

I beleive my son especially since he has volunteered to take a polygraph test which I have told the detective son is willing to do this.

Gosh I hate feeling like everyone here has given up on me. Guess it's back to me against the world. I'm kinda getting use to that feeling.

I know weekends are slow here and I was hoping to receive some help prior to talking with H. Since that didn't happen I did what I felt was right for me given the circumstances.

About 4-5 weeks ago during one of mine and H's talks, H said he just wants me to set him free. My reply at that time was I don't do divorce.

About 3 weeks ago I asked H if he would move out. Since the house is in both of our names and I can't afford filing S papers to try to get him out of the house and he wasn't willing to leave, things have been barely tolerable around here.

To me it feels like I'm living in a "loveless" marriage and I am worth more than that. I have shown and told H that I love him and that I know we can work things out. However H has done nothing or said anything indicating what he wants.

H has been home now 11 days and still nothing from him. I have not talked R talk with him until last night and some more today. He's home other then school nights at close to his normal time. I still have no idea if he's in contact via phone or email with the OW. I don't even ask anymore.

During my last IC'g session I had said to the counselor that I always felt H was better then me and he asked in what ways, my reply was, H is smarter, has a college education, makes more money. My counselor then said, tell me some good things about yourself. I replied, I have a kind heart, I am loving, I am honest. He said okay, you listed 3 about H and 3 about yourself, now take a look at the things you mentioned about H and the things you mentioned about H, WHICH IS MORE IMPORTANT? Why talk about eye opening, I had to reply that I would rather have and be the way I am then the way H is. Talk about empowering. I now know that H is not above me in anyway. NO I don't think that I am above him either but I do know that I am EQUAL to him.

Counselor and I then talked about my plans as soon as I can afford them to file for legal seperation. He told me, keep in mind that in some cases the spouse that worked so hard to save the marraige decides that after the one that wanted out wants to come back that sometimes they spouse doesn't want them back. This has been a big fear of mine I know that I have remained living in the same house for to long already. I'm almost getting numb to the things H does.

Anyway as far as our talk last night, I guess I could say my talking to H since he didn't say anything. I shared how I was feeling without placing blame on him. I said that I miss him not sleeping with me, I miss his hugs, I miss my hubby. This was all said in a very calm tone by me no tears. Hopefully this wasn't considered LB'g.

This morning while H was sitting at the table I sat down and asked if we could talk. He replied about what? I said, I love you and I know we can have a better marriage if we are both williing to work on it. I then said, H, I remember approximatly a month or so ago you said you wanted me to set you free. At this point he frowned. Well golly wasn't that what he asked for?

I then said, we both deserve better then living in a loveless marriage. I then said, Your choices are yours to make and mine are mine to make. He frowned again. I then said as soon as I can save up the money I will have to make some choices leagally. He frowned again.

H replied, please don't give me ultamtiums. To this I replied they are not ultamitums they are my boundaries. We both have the choice of where to go from here. I then did what could be considered a LB'r even though I hope not, I told him I was going to give him one last H as my H and then said, I can't do this alone. Our marrige can be so good but it will take both of us to want it.

Again, another possible LB'r by me, who knows, but I asked H "Is this what you want". His reply was, I don't know what I want anymore.

All of what I said above I think was necessary for me since finanacially I can't afford to move and H wasn't willing to. It was to the point that if things continued the way they had been I would have eventually started to hate my H. I still love him right now and this was the only way I could see to preserve this love.

Now one delima I have now is should I write him a letter and let him know exactly what it will take for him to do in order for me to see that his is trying to work on our marriage, or have I said enough?

I will live by what I told H and see what happens. I just know I couldn't have continued the way things were. I don't and won't accept half a husband.

Please Please Please share your thoughts with me.

LH,

U have identified your boundaries and shared it with him. Notice how he expect u to do it but when u do he tells you that u r giving him ultimatums?

Ok, so dm if u do and dm if u don't....isn't that how u feel?

Now is time to kick in some reverse babble.

Mine babbled the same crap. It used to hurt. I finally told him...'look u asked for me t/d the D, I am now ready, go get it.' He then said he wanted his family and didn't want the D.

That same sceario played over and over on various subjects. I got quite tired of it so when he babbled, I'd babble back (using reverse babble). Sometimes I used his own words against him. That usually shut him and gave me some peace. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Try it.

L.

Orchid,

Yes I feel like darn if I do and darn if I don't. I'm not very good at the reverse babble as most times I wear my heart on my sleeve. I will try though. I have a feeling if I do this that H will have even more reason to think I'm crazy.

I feel like I have hit the "acceptance" stage, but somehow I skipped the true "anger" stage. Think this is possible? I think I'm scared to let myself really get angry and I internalize my anger.

I have no idea how to act around my H anymore.

Do you think I should write him a letter letting him know what I need from him should he choose to decide to work on our marriage?

U probably need to pass through the 'anger' phase. So you can move forward without fear.

As for writing him a letter....write it but don't send it....not yet. Me thinks you will write it and later revise it until u know u r ready to send it.

It's about identifying your personal and M boundaries. U haven't done that yet so sending a letter now c/b confusing for both of you.

Pray for a clear mind, calm heart, lots of patience. Go do some reading on His needs/Her needs, surviving an affair (both by Harley) and Love must be tough (Dobson). Then id your boundaries and implement them. By then you will have a plan.

take care,
L.