Update...

I'm so upset!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

H and I just got into a huge fight. I initiated SF and he rejected me (this has NEVER happened.) He said he didn't want to because he had a lot on his mind, "with school and stuff." My feelings were hurt and I didn't believe him, so I pryed further. Then he told me the truth.

He had an IC appointment yesterday and he discussed my exposure with his doc (a very well-known and well-respected psychiatrist, who he has been seeing for four years.) He told me he and his IC concluded this:

I betrayed him four times.

First, when I talked to OM (absolutely.)

Second, when I sent a package to his W without asking H first.

Third, when I sent the follow-up letter.

Fourth, when I told him I saw OM in the park (H has told me he never wants to know when I see OM, unless he does something "different." I thought having a trailer hitched to his truck would be considered "different," but I guess not.)

H continues to feel that my exposing to OMW is my attempt to "help" OM be accountable. He feels that OM should sit across from his W, like I sat across from H, and confess. I told him OM would most likely never do this, and I was doing his W a favor. He strongly disagrees, and says that I can't "assume" anything about OM, and I shouldn't give a rats @#@ about him, his W or his family.

I became so distraught I didn't know what to do... I burst out crying, ran out of the house and into the woods nearby. I sat by the brook and sobbed for about 40 minutes. When I came home, H had left for class. He wrote me a note and said he was sorry he upset me so terribly, but this is how he feels and we need to talk more. He also left a message on the machine saying the same thing.

I just feel completely hopeless. I feel like I did the right thing (NOT by talking to OM, obviously) and H simply does not see it this way. I know I made my bed, and a part of me feels I don't have the right to feel as upset as I do, but it scares me that we're both on opposite ends of this issue.

So now I'm wondering... SHOULD exposure be POJA'd? H is terribly upset, and feels I have betrayed him. He does not understand where I am coming from at all. Another question is this... am I even deserving of his understanding, after all I have done?

I still feel like I did the right thing with myself and God... but what if it's not the right thing for my M?

I would be mad at you too. Him being the bs ,I don't think you should have done it.

Take care
Scott

Scott,

Do you think exposure should be POJA'd? That was my belief until I read Suzet and Kiwi's threads, and then I realized I was still vulnerable to OM on the day he cornered me and told me he was leaving his job. He also told me how he was preparing for our life together, and I was his "soulmate."

I couldn't take it anymore. I HAD to tell his W, but I knew H wouldn't allow it. Exposure kept coming up from time to time, and H continued to say no.

Of course he's mad at me, but does that mean I "shouldn't have done it?"

I'm very curious because I know you are a FWS as well, with a lot more experience and recovery under your belt.

Should I not have done it, just because it made H angry? I'm sincere with my question...

Katie,

This subject (POJA and exposure) has been discussed on this thread, so I'm pretty sure you understand that most people (including me) would over-ride a POJA in cases where someone's life is in danger -- i.e. the OM's wife, in this case.

I do understand your fears and I also understand that a therapist (almost any therapist who isn't *truly* pro-marriage) would agree with your H's therapist.

The question remains: Do YOU feel that you did the right thing ... and you say that yes, you do.

Had the OM not come to town with his stupid trailer, I believe your H would have handled all this differently. I suspect that that visit was "the last straw" in a very hurtful, long and scary situation (the entire betrayal).

Give him time to get through this. He's had shock after shock...

There are no guarantees in life (duh, do you want to smack me for that? LOL)... you made choices and continue making choices, as we all do... all with consequences. One leads to another...

This is not to say that your affair will haunt you forever... but unfortunately the uncomfortable truth is that it might... be forever, I mean.

Gosh, I'm not helping, am I?

Sorry about that... I just believe, as you do, in telling the truth. And the truth is that your affair began a cycle of events that have to play out... this is part of it.

I really am sorry for your pain and your H's... I hope you guys get through this bumpy time.

I'm sorry Katie, I shouldn't have answered this when I'm mad about something else.
Didn't your husband agree on a letter but not a phone call? I could be wrong, I thought
thats what it was,anyway maybe your husband , I'm terrible at words on here, (don't know how
I had an affair from this) the letter ok that was ok but he asked you, I mean, you knew he didn't
want you calling but yet you did anyway,because everybody else kept pushing you but what he wanted
wasn't important. Yes, you should have done it by poja in my opinion.So now om's wife might have kicked him out so now your husband can worry that you can leave too right? Is there a reason he
wouldn't be worried about that? If he feels like I do, you're going to do what you want to do anyway, to me it's just another way of saying you don't care what he thinks.
See what I mean?

Take care
Scott

Thanks, Scott...

Yes, I understand.

H suggested a letter vs. a phone call, but I argued that because it didn't make sense to me. In the end, I agreed I wouldn't do anything further, because that's what made H comfortable.

After sleeping on it, though, I remained uncomfortable. I decided to mail the letter without telling H first because I knew he wouldn't want me to. He was quite happy when I said I wouldn't follow up on the package.

I understand that this must seem to him that I don't care what he thinks. I do, but I don't agree with him on this issue. I guess this is just another bumpy time, as you said... it's just really painful.

Thank you for responding... you were VERY helpful and I appreciate it!

Hope you feel better,

KM

Katie Mae,

You did the right thing. You had compassion on your victime in this affair (OMW). I am very surprised that your husband doesn't appreciate having an ally to be sure the affair is ended permanently.

I know, for me, it was humiliating to know that my wife willingly had an affair with another man. Maybe your husband feels this too. But at the end of the day, he will have to just suck it up and move on.

Doing the moral, right thing should never be a matter of POJA - no more than your affair was POJA'ed IMO.

Your husband needs a new therapist. Your therapist (Dr Harley) says OM'sW should ALWAYS be told. 99% of OM will never willingly do that.

Is there any way you can get your Husband to this site?

I also suggest you look up the thread started by 2Bnormal just this week. After MONTHS of denial and tooing and froing over exposure to OM'sW, she has now realised she must tell her. Her conscience was killing her over this and the affair ended almost 3 years ago.

You did very well Katie Mae.

Exposing was the right thing. You just have to let your h know that he comes before
om, I feel like I'm standing in line behind him. I guess we'll all survive somehow.

Take care
Scott

Doing right can never be wrong; however, after the fact, respecting your husband's FEELINGS about "why" you did it and his perceptions IS important.

I think I posted to you quite a ways back that your motivations for contacting OM would be questioned. It is a fear most BH's have. They just mistakenly want OM and his family to BE irrelevant immediately; however, the continued secret forbids actual irrelevance. The exposure YOU so rightfully did was the nail in the coffin of such eventual irrelevancy.

With that said, I completely understand your husbands mistrust. Just know, it's not necessary to overexplain yourself now, but your marriage IS safer today than previous to exposure.

I am certain your husband does not like the result of exposure. OM showing up in your town with a trailer is an indication that his wife threw him out. You can see that your husband would have felt more secure with OM out of the picture and miserable in his marriage NOT single in your hometown? Your husband is nervous because he now perceives the risk of the affair reigniting as greater. Remember also, he trusts his feelings and perceptions much more than he trusts you right now.

All you can do is empathize with his feelings and continue to live and conduct yourself with integrity and honor. In time your husband may/should come to trust your motivations and should respect your moral decision. Right now, he's just hurting, confused, uncertain and rightfully mistrusting.

BTW, IMO, POJA does not overide the right thing to do. It never was intended to. OM's Wife had to know. You did good and must have faith and confidence that exposure was necessary despite what happens to you. I wish you'd got it right in one shot instead of two so your husband and his counselor couldn't add up your perceived betrayals but hopefully he'll get over it. It's the affair that is the big issue to your marriage...these unapproved exposure letters are just icing on the crap cake.

Next time don't run off crying. Stand strong and don't be defensive of your actions. Apologize and try to understand how he feels without defense. Tell him it won't happen again....you are DONE with OM. Communicate openly and build intimacy. You did what you felt was right and best for your marriage. You hope he sticks around long enough to allow you to prove your commitment to living honestly with him from this day forward. Maybe look him in the eye and say "I fully understand your reservations and mistrust, I just ask that as difficult as it may seem, you continue to be my hero and stand by me, I will NOT betray you again...I will love you and only you from this day forward and my actions will back up my words, if you'll have me."

Know this and try not to let it hurt you....Your words are not trusted now. You must rebuild trust with your actions.

Until then, have faith you did the right thing.

Blessings flow from BEING righteous.

Mr. Wondering

Katie:
First,
sorry to hear of the rough time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Please understand that your H is STILL in a very RAW Emotional state right now.

Sadly,
there will be times that he FEELS the need to lash out .......and in those times, he'll FIND a way to spin or to a lesser extent SHADE things to His point of view (just so he can Slam/hurt you).

As a cheesy example --
you could tell your H that the sky is blue (on a clear fine day).
However,
instead of agreeing with what you both see ---
he could go into a long lecture about light waves, gases in the atmosphere, ect, ect and tell you that NO it IS NOT Blue ......just to stick it to ya.

That's kind of what he's doing here (with ALL the examples you've put forth).
He's TOTALLY disregarding what YOU intended ......and is purposely Framing the Argument to Support HIS hurt and Pain.

Simply put -- its a defensive mechanism to Protect Himself.

I'm not saying that's not normal .........just that you NEED to be aware of his doing it ......because there isn't much out there that CAN'T be altered to FIT Our Own Particular Point of View.
That's partly what the Art of Debate is all about.

Face it, he FEELS betrayed .........so its natural that he'll find any way he can to Spin your Actions (and sometimes IN-actions) into your further betraying Him!
Cause that way he doesn't have to deal with the FEAR/hurt of attempting to ever Really Trust you again.

How do I recognize this?
Cause I pulled this kind of crap myself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Guess I figured if she could be a master liar, I could be the master of Spin.
And Man did I feel I had a lot of Hurt to spin my (our) world around. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Good news is:
If you hang in there and KEEP doing your best,
over a period of time .....this type of reaction from him will lessen and eventually die out.
Hang in there (cause we're talking months and years .........NOT days and weeks).

**************
Lastly,
to further your cause ........YOU Have to (must) be the one to correctly FRAME your Own Actions.
Don't permit him to twist what your doing.

Mr. Wondering mentioned ACTIONS.
Well,
I believe you've done some pretty meaningful actions so far.

Tell your H that although "he" may not give a rat's azzz about the OMW [which is his right] .......you on the other hand, Now Do.
You Feel an obligation that you Did Indeed wrong her (on some level) ....and the very lest you could do to make amends to her, was give her the Truth about her life.

Let him KNOW that you understand that HE disagrees, but this is YOUR New Outlook on Your Life ......and you won't RUN from your responsibilities (and will instead meet them head on, even when they are most uncomfortable).

This shows him many things:
First, that you will attempt to right your wrongs. [not just pay lip service]
He benefits, because if you will make amends for a stranger .......how much MORE will you be willing to do for Him??
This shows him action .......NOT just promises or words.

Next,
he see's you will now face your problems not run to fantasy land to avoid or medicate them.
Yet another plus for Him.

Also,
your showing REAL changes in how you "see the world" (not as selfishly) / willing to put others ahead of your own comfort.
That's Huge with WS's as it speaks to getting beyond the entitlement issues.

Plus one of the most basic (yet most powerful) changes this shows:
Is that you now want to Deal in Honesty and NOT deception.
This is a total 180 from where you were not long ago ........and its a quality that needs to be encouraged and nurtured in order for YOU to MAKE it a Habit!
That CAN ONLY be a Good Thing!

Believe me,
let him KNOW of your real reasons and that you'll NOT accept his spin or taint on your Actions/intentions .......and though he may still resist your Reality at first,
Once he has time to digest and mull over your explanations .........I believe he'll begin to except You and your New self.

But be warned ......its painful & it takes time and due dilegence. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Wishing you Only continued success in Your Journey! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

KM,

You are getting some great advice and hopefully comfort here..I'd especially like to add my ditto to Mr. W and Top Rope..great posts and so true.

You did the right thing..sometimes the right thing is very uncomfortable..sometimes doing the right thing exposes weaknesses in other people as well as in ourselves.

Thank you so much for the encouragement, everybody. After I logged off here, H came home and we had a very long talk. Besides the A stuff, we are also having problems with our puppy and are talking about giving him up for adoption. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Last night I had a ton of paperwork to do, so I'm just getting back to posting today.

NBII... I'm sorry, I think I thought Scott posted to me twice! I responded to some of the suggestions you gave me directly to him... whoops. I do believe H's IC is pro-marriage, as H told me during our talk that IC said "this is just another hump to work through" after he listed the four ways in which I seemed to disrespect H. H couldn't understand why he felt so betrayed, so IC listed it as he saw it, to put things into perspective for H. Of course H didn't tell me until afterwards that IC ended the session on a more hopeful note (because he was so hurt and angry.)

BK- thanks for the support! I wish H would come here too... he says it's too Christian, but I really think the truth is it's too painful. Wow... thanks for the heads up on 2B's thread! That's great news... I will have to check it out.

Mr. W- thanks so, so much for all your help. H says he trusts me and knows that I have good intentions. I believe he is sincere when he says he trusts me, although I don't know how he can given the three things I just did behind his back! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> He says he wants us to work more as a team. We have been, but this is the one issue we disagreed on so I took matters into my own hands. I do NOT regret it. I know I did the right thing. Since the A, we have POJA'd everything. It has been wonderful... and liberating. I feel badly I didn't POJA this, but I think these were circumstances in which he doesn't understand. He doesn't come here, he doesn't fully understand the dynamics of As, he wishes OM and family would just fall off of a cliff. I understand where he's coming from. and he now understands where I'm coming from. I just don't think he truly comprehends what this does for me OR our M. Thank you again for your invaluable insight and advice...

TR- thanks for putting H's emotional state into perspective. I sometimes forget to look at the "big picture" and get focused more on the current details, and lose sight of some very important factors. I went out and bought H a card and DVD to say I'm sorry when he got home (he appreciates DVDs much more than flowers, lol.) I will continue to try and be consistent and diligent with my words and actions from now on.

Noodle- thank you so much! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

H and I had a very good but painful talk Wednesday night. We POJA'd our next steps and are feeling much better about things. Now, if we could only figure out what to do with our very cute but sadly aggressive little pooch. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Katie M.

Hi Katie Mae-
I've been following your story for a while. I just wanted to write for support- I'm cheering you on <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Obedience training can do alot for a puppy, and it's something you and hubby could do together. Solving the puppy problem in a positive way would be a good boost for both of you, and perhaps a welcome distraction from the A.

Good luck and keep writing please.

Katie,

How are things between you and your H now after you've exposed to OMW? Are things better now after the recent arguments between you and your H? Have your H come to terms with it yet and understands why you've done it or does he still resents you? I'm following your thread and was just wondering. Please send an update when you have time.

Take care,
Suzet

Hi Suzet,

Thank you so much for asking! You are one of my heroes here.

Truth be told, things have continued to be a bit strained between H and I. We're in the process of trying to find a new home for our dog, and it has been very emotional for us. A lot of our attention and energy has been focused on that, and we keep saying how we feel disconnected from one another. H is no longer angry, but we're definately not feeling very "together" right now.

That being said, H and I are constantly talking (especially about how disconnected we feel, lol) and are trying to fix it. He never wants to give up, and neither do I. I guess in that sense, it's all good.

I don't regret my decision for a second.

Thanks for asking! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the update Katie. I'm glad things are somewhat better between you and your hubby. At least the two of you are communicating and that's good and very important! Also the fact that both of you are committed to each other, won't give up and are continuing to try and 'fix' things between you is also very positive. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Keep posting.

Blessings,
Suzet