Thanks Ark for the beautiful story. It made me cry.
Thanks Pep for sharing that about your H - that's really, really beautiful too.

I adore my husband

he's THE light in my life

So Suzet's integrity would no longer be in question if she broke her agreement with her husband and told OMW?

I guess I'm blind...I struggle with seeing it this way. As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet her husband wouldn't see it this way either, or he wouldn't have insisted on this in the first place.

If she can convince him to change his mind...fine. But if she can't, she should be MORE concerned with her husband and her marriage to him than she should be with OM's.

Sure, moveforward, I can continue to beat this down my H's throat until he agrees that we need to expose to the OM's W! Is that "Marriage Building"? That would surely bring peace in my life, wouldn't it??

Owl,

Respectfully, the biggest threat to marriage building after an affair is not how well you POJA, but the possibility of relapse and recontact. Priorities matter....here the priority needs to be honesty not secrecy.

What grows is what we FEED.

The BEST way I know to prevent the biggest threat to marriage building after an affair.....is telling the OPS! This is one of those cases where fighting infidelity is COUNTER intuitive.

Recently, I had a some relatives come in for a birthday. Turns out one of my cousins is involved in an affair with a married man. She is miserable and says she's ready to end it....has tried, but it just doesn't "stick". My advice to her was "I know just what to do if you're REALLY serious about ending it.....tell his wife."

I'm confused.

If a WS disagrees with exposure, and the BS exposes anyway, that is marriage-building..
If the BS disagrees with exposure and the WS exposes anyway, it's anti-marriage building?
Though in both cases the WS/BS might even say that the M is over if the BS/WS exposes?

Owl,

I liken it to a situation in which I recently also advised a recently WS to seek IC.

They said they would talk to the BS about it..but weren't sure if BS would be enthusiastic about it.

I suggested..do it anyway.

Some things supercede marriage building..they are relevent to our identities and self respect and emotional health..I believe that this is one of those things.

OMs wife has a right to know what is going on in her life and her marriage.

It is only coincidental that exposing OM to his wife also deals a mortal blow to the A fog. Therefore it protects the marriage. Exposure of the WS by the BS is not marriage building either by these standards..I have yet to see an active WS climb aboard this plan..yet it is crucial regardless of the wishes of the wayward.

Suzets H is not approaching this A as though it was an active threat to his M.

Suzet knows better and so does anyone who becomes educated about the nature of *addictive behavior*. She has not been fixed by this latest bout with relapse and remorse..she is still the same woman with the same issues that made her vulnerable in the first place.

It's a double edged sword really. Two separate issues that tie together in perfect alliance.

Suzet needs to tell OM wife for herself..to be a woman of integrity..and she needs to deal this blow to the A in order to burn bridges in defense of her marriage.

Her H is asking her to make a wrong decision and a dangerous one..I would no way have a problem breaking that agreement..in fact keeping such an agreement just because you agreed previously but have changed your perspective is anethema to the entire concept of poja anyway.

It is MB tools being used, abused, and misunderstood.

Owl...
sometimes we make promises in the heat of emotional stress...

or in the need to be liked
or not be rejected

because we are scared
or hurt

sometimes we make promises that we should not keep...
that we can not keep...

sometimes we tell our teenagers that they can tell us anything...and we promise them we won't tell...

the other parent
a friends parent
a family member...

and sometimes we come to a place where we HAVE to break that promise....

that we should not have agreed to something...because the danger or consequence is too great....

we all can and do this at some time...

this is without a doubt a huge exercise in growth and love...reaching beyond the microscopic realm...

this has NOTHING to fixing or working on the OM's marriage...
none of us have that power...

but this is about an individual sanctity to make informed decisions...
OR
even choose NOT to make decisions...

this has nothing to do with their marriage...

this has to do with one individauls RIGHT to know....

knowledge is power.....

three people hold this woman in captivity with the knowledge they keep from her....

how does informing her damage the core root of this marriage.....

what stops it from being spoken

fear?

realistic or unrealistic ?

in fact it's my opinion suzet and her husband are in the BEST position they could be..

they can play out together ALL the scenarios telling might bring..

they can plan
together
they can unify
together
they can grow together....

and they can sleep at night knowing that they righted a wrong...
even when it was scary.....

we often insist on things because we are scared...

once we step back..we often begin to see the other sides...

I pray this happening...

ARK

Melody... Thank you... you are one of the reasons I stay on these boards. I am just growing weary of what seems to be a symptom on these boards of late... it just seems that the logic I see here would be better suited for some other web sites that show little concern for the BS. I don't know where the moral disconnect occured in many of these FWS (not all) but it seems to follow them long after the A has ended. Your compass always seems headed in the moral direction. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> so thank you.

The only thing worse than making a BAD PROMISE is KEEPING a a bad promise. Using that as an excuse to avoid doing the right thing will not suffice. If I "promise" to not confess that I stole money out of my neighbors purse, it does not absolve me of my moral committment, it only means I made a stupid promise. There is no virtue in keeping a promise to do the WRONG THING.

Again...personally, I completely agree that telling the OPS is absolutely in the best interest of the marriage. Again, had my wife's OM been married, I wouldn't have hesitated in telling her.

If I imagine myself in Suzet's H's position...having established an agreemant with her that we would NOT contact OMW and there would be no further contact of any kind with that family...after several failed NC attempts...and not realizing the benifit of OMW knowing what's going on (unless of course she decides to divorce him, thereby freeing OM up even further)........and she contacts OMW anyway...I would be FURIUOS. I would view it in the light that she chose to worry about OM and OMW's relationship over OUR relationship. It COULD be a deal breaker in the marriage...violated trust once again after all the other lies and deception.

Again...this is all with the realization that Suzet's H does NOT see the value in telling OMW in the first place.

Realize I see your point...but it's very easy to understand why Suzet and 2BN aren't in agreemant with everyone else...see this from the viewpoint I just described.

It's NOT moral cowardice...it's NOT either of them being immoral...it's simply them attempting to discern their best course of action based on their knowledge of their husbands and how they've responded to this point with the affair(s).

I'm reminded of the movie "Unfaithful" where the OM is murdered by the BH. The WW becomes fully aware of it.

In the end, it appears she has chosen her marriage and family...and protects her H.

Interesting...

That is because she was a hooker posing as a mom and wife. Finding morals in her was impossible.... I saw the ending as her protecting herself and her reputation... not her husband. If her dirtly little secret came out her sham of a life would have been exposed. My take on it was the the H had the morals and eventually would have confessed his crime... his character was on display throughout the movie... even the homicide was an emotional reaction rather than a premeditated event.

That movie was sickening in all respects.... except Diane Lane is very cute.

Owl, you are saying that she should accommodate her spouse's ignorance by sacrificing her principles. How does that help either of them? What in the world kind of marriage is that?

It is not a violation of trust to break a bad promise. However, it is a violation of MORALITY to not confess your crime to your victim. It is a violation of trust to lie and have affairs. HONESTY IS THE SOLUTION TO INFIDELITY, not more lies and not more secrecy. A spouse who demands their spouse sacrifices their morals to accommodate some illusion is unacceptable. Asking her to sacrifice her morals is an unreasonable demand.

A person who is truly remorseful and repentent will WANT to do this as part of a HEALTHY RECOVERY. The very legitimate moral obligation she has to tell her victim cannot be superceded by any hypothethical anger of her BS. Shame on any spouse who would get angry over this!

You are trying to equate breaking a bad promise with "lies and deceit." You can't equate making amends to one's victims with "lies and deceit." There simply is no rational comparison as one is good and the other is bad.

That made me sick.

Ow gosh... most movies with A's make me sick.
"One Night Stand" is a weird exception.
Julia Roberts makes me sick.
Bwaaaa.... (sorry for the threadjack, guys)

Unless I'm mistaken, at the very end of Unfaithful, doesn't it show Gere and Lane pulling into a police station on a rainy night?

I never saw that part. They were driving down an empty street on a rainy night at the end and sort of glanced at each other in a silent assent to keep their secret.

A point that seems to be overlooked in this debate is - exposure places an ally for NC in the life of the OP. NC becomes a two way policed thing therefore much more likely to be adhered to.

OM GF and I forged a partnship to keep OM and Squid apart and it worked really well. YES OM GF hated Squid, YS it was painful and brave for me to do YES Squid hated it BUT IT HELPED SAVE OUR MARRIAGE.

WIthout exposure you can 'try' to maintain NC but WITH exposure you're COMMITED to it IME.

I thought Connie Sumner was a very believable character. Even though I'm a man, I experienced all the same things she did. It was nauseating to watch it portrayed so vividly.

I don't think her motives were "self preservation" in the end. I think she felt responsible for driving her H to murder and felt she owed him newfound loyalty and commitment no matter what. I think that's how I would've felt.

I only bring this up here because it's a situation that I think challenges our absolutes. If Connie had turned her H in for the murder, she destroys her son's family and sends her BH to prison.

I wonder how many of us in that situation would ride our "morality" to it's inevitable conclusion?

I have no idea how I would've handled that situation had I been in it.