For those that don't know my story, my stbxw had an affair last summer, had D-Day 30July05. She claimed committement to saving marriage at that time.

Recovery never really happened.

I had a stupid A in Dec05, D-Day on 11Jan06. Stbxw filed for D on 10Jano6.

I found out last week that her A never stopped, so no wonder recovery never really started.

Soooooo, I have been telling myself all along, since my stupid A, that I would not act single until I legally am.
Well, the last d-day, last week, has delayed our D procedings. It could possibly be another several weeks to months until it is legal.

In the meantime, it has been almost 14 months since I have had anything resembling a marriage / relationship.

In a moral sense, my marraige was ended when she began her A last June05. All that is left now is the ending of the legal ties imposed by the government.

So what are some opinions here? Should I wait until my M is legally ended?, or take comfort in knowing that my M has been spiritually over for over a year now and feel alright with dating if the opportunity arises?

All along, especially after my loss of sanity and resulting A in Dec05, I have wanted to avoid any conduct in this regard that would be inappropriate.

Thoughts?

well, taking the chance i will get slammed here i will give you my honest opinion...

are you legally separated? in my state, the way my legal separation is worded, my ex and i, once we signed those papers, could live separate and apart "as though we were not married". once we signed those papers we were free to do what ever we wanted just as if we were divoreced. a lot of people don't ever get a divorce in my state until they are ready to remarry! the divorce is needed to remarry obviously. but, a legal separation here is just fine to be able to legally move on.

it is a fine line where children are involved.... legally, my ex can have the kids around his live in ow. i don't like it but i cannot stop. i do not like what this is teaching them, but nothing i can do about it. i would be cautious with what children are learning from a situation. i would not have my children around ANYONE who was not going to be a permenent fixture in some way. I have dated here and there since the split last year but my children NEVER met any of them or spent time with them.

if you are legally separated and your attorney says you can date without her being able to "hold it against" you in the divorce, i'd say go for it. you are long over due after 14 months. i am free to do as i wish at this point. i still choose to tread carefully until there is a divorce signed however.... mlhb

not legally seperated. stbxw is out of the house now.

my lawyer told me it was ok as long as I do not have anyone around the children.

my own decision / plan for resumption of dating is that when I do I will not bring anyone around my kids unless the relationship is long term and serious as in possibly heading to marriage (but after all this I am marriage-phobic, so that screws me right there!)

I understand what that would do to my kids. that would be one more emotional issue that they do not need to deal with.

Tired Dad,

What are you looking for in getting back into the dating arena?

I think there are several things to look at. I notice your reference to your marriage being SPIRITUALLY over for 14 months and also your reference to "YOUR stupid affair", those don't seem to jive to me. If your marriage was over 14 months ago, would your affair have been stupid? But then again, divorce was just filed 6 months ago, correct?

Let me ask you this, when did you take your heart totally out of the marriage?

OK, well those are just some things to think about. If you do much reading on the subject I believe you'll find that many, if not most, books recommend waiting 1 year for every 5 years married to fully heal and properly grieve the loss of a marriage, which you truly can't finish right now because you are still married. According to that theory, you'd need to wait another 2 years.... That said, I don't know too many people who follow that wonderful advice (btw I did). However, when people date/have relationship when they are not healed and haven't grieved several things tend to happen such as easy attachment to bad relationships, rebound relationships, and basically poor selection because they are not 100% themselves.

I guess if I were in your shoes with the desire to date, something I did not have after my divorce, then I would spend the rest of 2006 getting divorced, being the most awesome dad I could, and becoming an expert on healing/relationships. Then, provided I felt I was TOTALLY healed, I'd plan on 2007 as the year that I went back out into the waters, confident that I could swim.

AND ps..... Don't forget about the grieving process for the children. Your older two may have a lengthy one. My girls took about 2 years to truly grieve the loss of my marriage.

So I totally agree, don't bring others around for a long while and don't let others interphere with your time with the kids whether that be on the phone for endless hours or whatever, give your children 110% of you, they need it.

TD, I know your story quite well. I was one of the few who from your earliest postings on EN suspected that your W was in an affair, and that she never ended it over the past few months. Knowing your story and the pain you have been through, here are my thoughts.

Legalities aside, you are not ready for a healthy relationship at this point. After a 13 year marriage, you will need lots of time to heal, regroup, and stabilize. We're not talking weeks or months here, more like a couple of years.

It doesn't mean that you can't go on "dates" during that time, but you need to be aware that you won't be in a healthy place for anything more than "dates". So if you want to go out and have dinner or drinks with someone, sure, why not. But, don't mislead yourself by thinking "well, the marriage has been really over for over a year, so I am more than ready to start a relationship". You're not.

Spend some time alone, learn about yourself and your needs, think about what you want from a partner, and then slowly move to dating (not relationships).

AGG

It depends on what you want from dating. I began dating before the d was final. We'd had one year of false recovery, ex moved out & re-filed for D. About 6 months after that I thought I'd test the waters. I'd had ic for about a year at that point.

I knew I was not in relationship shape so I was looking for male companionship. To any potential dates I made it clear I was fresh out of a 20 year marriage, new to dating & wanted to simply share a man's company.

If the opportunity for a relationship came up, it sorta did, I both wanted it & new it wasn't a good choice. We kept in very casual only saw each other once maybe twice a month. A little physical contact but no sex.

You just need to know you may want more from your current state than you can expect to have or give. I have felt ready for more but later realized I wasn't quite there yet.

Now, the 1 year concept for every 5 years of marriage leaves me verrrry far from a relationship. Twenty one years plus almost another year if we go to the actual D date. Four years before I'm suitable for a relationship! Seems to me this must be dependent on the individual, the circumstances surrounding the D, ic or not, & a host of other things.

T-D,

You've gotten some great advice here. One thing I'd like to add is that you need to consider what kind of person you're going to attract. There was a time when I would've gone out w/someone who was not divorced. But I wouldn't now. In our state you have to be living apart for a year before you can even file for D and even then it can take 3 months or more for things to be finalized. The process takes forever but in the long run it's a good thing.

MLHB is right, the legal separation is important. IMO, a woman would be crazy to date someone who didn't even have that. I know it doesn't seem like it but 6 months is still pretty fresh. In the scheme of things, your d-day wasn't that long ago and your own A is very recent. Yes, go out and have some fun but be very wary of anyone who wants to get serious w/you. Chances are, she has issues herself.

Actually, I think the fact that it's only been one year since D-day is even more scary than however much time since the divorce is final.

Instead of "dating" how about just transitioning? Go to the gym and out for drinks with buddies and wherever. You can start interacting with the softer sex without dating them.

I can tell you even when you've gotten over grieving and hurting and resenting and all those emotions, dating is tough the first time you find yourself in a serious relationship. All those insecurities get dragged up.

why are you asking these questions???? im sure you already know what you want to do and from the sounds of it got stung on a retaliation A....what were your motives from the start??? did you want to get caught to make her jealous or just want to piss off the queen bee??? ( i dont know your story)...and both are legit...

anyway...i think you have two issues...the "past" is the past and now you are here in the "future" and soon 2 b D man...two different sitchs....

when you meet a woman..be up front and honest...some wont date a tech M man, others wont care...

i started dating WAYYYY 2 soon after my initial seperation...did many "unhealthy" things and now looking back also hurt a few people....HONESTY is where u need to be...

first...WITH YOURSELF...if you aint ready...you aint ready...(only you know this one) or just test the waters alittle.

second....and almost as important...is being honest with your potential dates...if its just sex your looking for...then so be it...be safe, and prepare yourself for some emotional baggage that comes with it....

if its truely a "realtionship" your looking for.....id call BS (i dont mean betrayed spouse! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />) on this one....all it is a rebound and youll just prolong your own healing...(lord knows i speak here from experience)

just take it slow and easy for awhile....

if you been through some hellish times in the past then you probably already answered your own question and just looking for support or trying to talk yourself out of something...

thats just MHO.

omg, i cannot believe i am going to say this, but i agree with most everything sturgis said.... don't let the ego swell up too big there sturg!

i will say for me, it has been a full year since my ex and split AND he was not living here for a full 5 months before we made the split official so..... it has been more like a year and a half. until maybe about 4 months or so ago i was not even entertaining the thought of anything serious. i did a stupid thing right after the separation, 2 people (one being me) did get hurt, luckily we are still friends how, and tested the waters a few other times. rebound is not good, for either person, or fair. i am wayyyy beyond that. is my divorce done yet? nope, but i am a year into a legal sep and a year and a half away from ex. i'm ok with my time frame and know i am ok with where i am now to look at relationship stuff. i was not there directly after this all happened, no way.

so, that being said, once again, i will say, i agree with the sturg. can't believe it! mlhb

YOU????? not YOU?????

i cant belive it either!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Honestly? last Monday, 13th wedding anniversery and d-day #2 for her A. I am such a sap....



Yes, still stupid. I was still wanting to save the marriage, but went and found an opportunity for a PA just to have some "closeness" and to prove to myself that if we D'ed, I would be able to find someone else. The first reason was from weakness, the second was from selfishness / insecurities I guess.



She filed when she found out about my A, used it as an excuse to file, but in reality didn't want to stay in the M regardless, as she was still in her A.

My IC told me he thinks I "know" what a healthy relationship should look like, and he thinks I will be able to avoid repeating the mistakes in a future relationship that I made in my M, but that he worries I will overlook "baggage" or trouble or problems in women over a desire to "not be alone". He is probably correct in that.

And I know that if I did that in the end one of us would get hurt, me or the woman.

Too freakin' complicated....

Because I am wavering on what I promised myself, and I am not sure if my promise was practicle or not. The longer the D drags on, the more it seems unrealistic and done only for some "moral stance" that only means something to me in the stupid, hurt, screwed up way.



Yes, I want to date. But I am not sure if it is the right thing to do right now. I know that my perspective is skewed. My last year has been worse than being alone. My stbxw purposely put a lot of hurt on me and used me and exploited my emotions.

That side of me is bloodied and battered. Bu the other side of me really wants to go out and have fun with other adults. And yes, female adults. I'm just not sure how much the bloodied side would affect the "ok but lonely" side.





well, I guess a part of it is the missing of the security and comfort of being in a committed relationship. marriage provided me that until 14 months ago. I liked that. I just like the idea of a quiet togetherness, where you know there is someone there for you.

I will say that since d-day #2 with her A, last Monday, I have felt like a weight was lifted off of me. I felt freed. The emotionaly agony I was having daily about the impending D that I did not want was blown away that evening.

I still feel that way.

But I am starting to have moments of remembering the happy times and just shaking my head wondering "how did we get here?". I didn't have any of these moments for the past 10 days......

She is such an idiot. She threw away so much.
But I know that my relationship is 100% over. And in that respect I want to close the door on it and move on. Believe me, I have grieved continuosly for the past 14 months until last week. I cried TOO MANY tears. Saying I was in a "funk" doesn't do it justice. I am sooo past that. Now is the time to be happy about having a chance to have a better future.

So last weeks d-day was more of a freeing moment than a sad moment. it brought feelings of vindication "hah, it wasn't all my fault that the recovery didn't suceede".

Now I feel emotionally ready to say "forget about her, she isn't worth my time to even waste it on grieving over our lost M. she blew it and I am better off without her".

I truly do feel this way now. I know there is no turning back.

Now I feel anxious to get moving on my future.

And I do like the ladies....... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Tired Dad,

Kewl beans, sounds as if you’ve made it through the 1st step of the grieving process… However that leaves 4 more to come… Here’s a snipit of a post I posted long ago.


I believe that it is widely accepted that one will go through and must go through a natural healing process after the loss of a spouse whether it be due to death or divorce. Add to that the outside circumstances surrounding the loss, whether it be infidelity or abuse or whatever, and there truly can be a lot of external issues to deal with before dealing with all the internal issues surrounding the loss.

Below, I believe you’ll find the standard accepted model of the grieving process:

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

Steps 4 and 5 are where I’m going to place my emphasis. I believe that completing steps 4 and 5 are instrumental in having a successful relationship. Let’s look at them individually for just a moment:

4. Depression. This is the hopeless phase where anger, betrayal, resentments, and grief dwell. People my focus their grief inward and begin hating themselves, they may drink or do drugs as a means to cope. Or what I find more likely is that they date and engage in casual sex in an attempt to feel “normal” again.

5. Acceptance. This is when healing is completing, you notice that I didn’t say it was complete. In very humble opinion Step 5 is an action step. This is where one let’s go of the anger and bitterness towards others, as well as any towards themselves. This is where we have forgiveness.

My belief is that, at some point, you will have to go through all these steps. Now when you introduce a relationship in during Step 4, which a lot of people do, that displaces some of that anger and resentment. I’ve also believe that left undealt with that it then seeps out slowly and has an impact on how we deal with our partner. And who gets the brunt of our acting out, yes the one we love whether they deserve it or not.

So back to my statement, this is the point at which either a second relationship will fail, be miserable, or a person will make the decision to work through their grieving process towards recovery. It’s why most mental health people, after getting someone out of immediate danger if present, then go back and start looking for “unfinished” business in their lives. What they’ve masked or replaced.

That being said, do I believe that dating early dooms someone for failure, absolutely not. Especially if done with a keen awareness of self, where you are at in the process, a willing partner, and an effort to seek the end on Step 5. But along with that ray of hope there is also a cloud of negativity and that is how capable of choosing a good partner is someone going through depression? It’s an interesting thought and I have seen basic scenario’s:

1. They aren’t capable and latch on to whatever they can get and ride it for whatever it’s worth. Typically coming out at the end worse for the wear and now working through grieving the loss of relationship A and beginning the grieving of relationship B. And heck, they may even end up getting healthy through this relationship then look at who they are dating and say WTF am I doing with this loser.

2. They do have an awareness of self and see qualities in a partner that will not only help them through their process but also be a stellar mate when said process is complete. They are transparently open and honest with their partner and themselves through the early stage of the relationship which in of itself breeds an understanding of each other that is crucial in maintaining a healthy relationship. They come out in the end as a strong healthy person to find that they have a strong healthy relationship based on openness, willingness, and honesty.

I will say that option 2, as presented above, is what I believe to be not the norm but the exception. I, myself, got stuck on #4 of the grieving process for over 2 years. Once I plowed through it, step #5 came quickly and was welcomed. Had I chose to get involved in a relationship during that 2 year period, I firmly believe that I would either be grieving the loss of another relationship or in an extremely unhealthy relationship.

In an ideal world, we wouldn’t have to deal with this, but other than that people would wait till they were done grieving before venturing back out. But that’s not reality and is not often practiced. Several who’ve posted on these boards could expand on the need to finish grieving as well as how clouded ones vision can become in a ‘rebound’ style relationship.

I think that's wonderful if someone is able to apply it and follow it while working through the process towards healing. My biggest problem with all the scenario's is first the ability of someone to be honest with themselves while in a relationship getting their needs met; second, the focus to heal while dancing horizontally between the sheets; and third "LIFE". Life happens especially if you have kids and before you know it you turn around and it's been 4 years and you are still stuck on stupid.

IMVHO healing or shall we say recovery is a choice. Yes, I believe that nature is going to guide us through it but we can either choose to actively heal by dealing with all the issues at hand, passively heal by allowing nature to run it course interrupting it at various times with our whims, or quite frankly we can choose not to heal (I think my X MIL chose not to heal).

But here's the thing, did you take a class in "healing" in High School? or College? More than likely not. Something so common and useful to the masses and yet many of us don't know how to approach it. There's no great mystery in how to accomplish it, yet, I for one had no idea how to do it.

I, personally, view the old saying of "time heals all wounds" as total BS. I think people can actively choose to go through the process, get the work done and receive the rewards. There are 10 and 12 step programs out there widely available for this or that addiction and/or death but I haven't seen one for divorce, especially for the BS.

tired dad, i relate to your sitch A LOT. and i know that feeling of just being ready to move on. good lord do i know that feeling and i know that is where i am at now. go out and see what is out there. if you are someone who can date more than one woman at a time... casually i mean, than do that. (i am not cut from that cloth... i just can't date a bunch of different people, but that's just me) just get out there and meet some different people. make FRIENDS.... female and male. you are my age i see.... and have been out of the dating game about the same amount of time (for me it's been 10 years)... it's different doing it at the age we are now compared to when we were 25! i think it is better because we have grown and are more mature and look at things much differently. it'll make you feel younger again for awhile too! flirt, hang out, and don't latch onto the first one that comes around. and when that special someone does come around that sparks your interest you, i am sure, like me, will take the time to really get to know them before diving in anyway. just my 2 cents on that...

sturgis.... it's true,you are NOT dreaming... i actually did agree with you for the most part... did you write that down? did you save this moment somewhere special? because it will probably NEVER EVER happen again! hahahahaha mlhb