W and I had a date today. I wanted to go for a walk, she wanted to go shopping. We went shopping, she bought herself newe shoes for $40, I bought $75 worth of clothes for our son.<BR>On the drive there, she said om's wife called her today and said she forgave my wife and wnated to meet her and give her a hug. Om's wife said he was always a good provider and wonderful husband and she loved him, etc. Now my w is angry at om saying he is going to get away with out paying any price what so ever. I told her she needs to forget om and and his w and just move on.<BR>We then started talking about w moving back home to the guest room. I gave her my pros and cons and she gave me hers.<BR>She then started telling me that she would be bringing home the dresser she bought, plus a ceiling fan and how great the furniture they bought would look good in our family room as ours needs replaced.<BR>I must have got a funny look on my face as she asked what was wrong ? I was trying not to love bust, but decided since my problem has been open and honest communication, I had better speak up. I told her I didn't want any of "their" stuff in our home. She said I wasn't being practical. I told her no I wasn't, I didn't want to come home every day and see this stuff. She finally said fine, She would throw her clothes on the floor. I said what about the empty dresser sitting in our(my) room? She had no answer.<BR>She then went back talking about om and all the problems that he has. I guess I should feel flattered that she would tell me this stuff as its something you would tell your best friend, but it really is painful for me.<BR>She then told me that she was om's third affair and the last one was last year. She was feeling embarrassed that she could have fallen for him.<BR>Thats when I crossed the line I think. I asked her if she had been tested for STDs. She started to say he doesn't have any signs of anything. I said she knew better than that. <BR>Thats when reality or something set in. She said that if she had AIDS that would solve everybodys problems and she became quite irrational. On our way home she said, she hoped I was glad now that she was suffering.<BR>She said we should proceed with the divorce and she wants nothing.<BR>She went home and I haven't heard back from her. I did call and leave her a message, but I found out later that she got called into work. She did call the kids but I was out grocery shopping.<BR>I'm not sure what to do now. next Fri is our anniversery(16yrs). I guess I'll have to feel her out to see if she will even talk to me. She usually feels better after she has time to think. Its her initial reaction to things that get her in trouble.<BR>Its been weird trying to get her back. She talks to me like I haven't been thru anything, and today she made me feel like I was the one that had the affair and was trying to get back in her good graces.<BR>We really need joint counseling to get us thru this.

RWD hang in there I feel like I'm getting an up close and personal view of the end of the affair and the beginning of the new marriage. It obviously isn't any less confusing for you than before, but at least the rollercoaster's changed. I agree about the furniture and other stuff, but perhaps you could have considered it on a temporary basis until you could replace it. It also sounds like you may have been a bit blunt about the STDs. Sometimes we men have to get better at saying the right things at the right time in the right way. I like the way she is opening up to you, keep listening. Don't be discouraged it's only another rollercoaster!

Thanks Awoken,<BR>I'm afraid you're right. I guess I carried this open and honest thing too far.<BR>W called a few minutes ago from work, and said I was right, if she was living like a whore than thsi is what she deserves. She said she won't move home till end of the year and won't consider counseling till after STD test.<BR>I think I screwe up big time. Part of her problem was self esteem, and now I've crushed her. That was not in the plans. What couldn't I keep my big fat mouth shut!!!!!!!<BR>I must have the worst timing in the world.<BR>Before we were at square 1 with rebuilding the marriage, now I don't know where we are!

RWD - <P>I agree with awoken. But first let me tell you how envious I am of your situation. Although you feel like you're balancing on the edge of a razor blade, from where we (me, awoken, izzy, Chris and all others whose spouse is still with OP) sit it looks like your rounding third and headed for home!<P>Maybe in the excitement of having your W near you you pushed a bit too far/too fast. I agree that you need to have her tested for STD's, but maybe after she settles in a bit.<P>Although I see where awoken is coming from regarding the dresser, I agree with you. Bringing in ANYTHING into the house that they shared would be like bringing in plutonium. Consider bringing it into the garage and then selling it...use the money to buy new furniture later.<P>My God it's good to see some movement with one of our wayward spouses. Awoken, izzy, Chris and I (among many others) will be watching (and praying for) you over the next weeks and months. Please post often buddy.<P>Good luck and God bless you.

Oops, Sorry RWD!<BR>Check this out... My H had his first, (and many subsiquent "encounters") with his ow... in our car... even BEFORE discovery, whenever I would take even a short trip in that car I <BR>would emerge angry & tense. Naturally during the attempt to reconcile later on, I wanted <BR>to get RID of that car!! H wrote me a note saying I needed to "READJUST" my feelings <BR>about the car, because we just couldn't afford a new one!! (NOT true, I assure you!!) <BR>We couldn't afford NOT to sell that car!! He also had no problem using the portable <BR>stereo he bought, for those nights they were able to meet in hotel rooms, that I found <BR>hidden in the trunk of the car. (That thing had a real nasty "accident" one day, while H <BR>stood looking on in shock... It made the point I guess though cause we got a new car <BR>shortly thereafter!! <BR>Peace.<BR>Kate<P>[This message has been edited by Changeling (edited October 03, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by Changeling (edited October 03, 1999).]

RWD-<P>Hi. I am glas to hear that things seem to be moving in the right direction.<P>Just a female perspective here. Even tho I am the betrayed, I think I may be able to explain your wifes emotions.<P>First, when she said something about you being glad she was suffering, you might have responded by saying, "I am not glad you are suffering. We have both suffered enough. I want you to stop suffering and I am here to help you. Your feelings are very important to me, and I appreciate your sharing them with me."<BR>The furniture thing makes me think that she is some how still attached to OM. I don't think that you should be less honest with her-that is what it is all about. Example- remember back when you went out and bought an new drill(ok, i'm making this up as I go along-bear with me ) and you brought it home and your w asked why you bought that=did you really need that, blah, blah? How did that make you feel? Guilty? Maybe. What I' saying is, right now you need to be very careful on your responses to her. You know she is in w/d and many things you will tell you will be painful. Before you anwser her honestly, think about what she has just said. Dont stop being honest, just listen with your heart befor you answer.<BR>I dont know if I have helped you or not, but I think that all women need to know that their h's are listening to them. If you need clarification on something-try repeating back to her what you heard and ask her if it is what she meant.<P>Wishing you luck. I'm praying for you.<P>cc

RWD-<BR>When my H was talking about coming home (back in June/July) I had all kinds of conditions. Including not wanting anything from his apartment to enter our home. <P>This was really selfish of me. That 'stuff' is part of his life now. By not accepting his stuff I was saying "I won't accept the part of you that did this". <P>Remember that your wife is going through a lot of pain. It is a really good sign that she is willing to talk to you about it. My H won't talk to me about OW at all. <P>My advice is not to put any demands or conditions on her return. Six months down the road you guys can hold a garage sale, together. <P>No demands, no conditions. Work on just listening to her. <P>I think its fine that you brought up the STDs. It's reality.

RWD, glad to see that things are getting on in a new direction. Don't take anything she says too seriously or personally. At this point, she is still in a confused state by all of this and will say anything that comes to mind. Its not that they are being mean its just that they need to talk. She'll figure a few things out for herself but others will have to be put in front of her and explained (A set of handpuppets helps).<BR>At this stage of the game, you need to seek counselling for a mountain of anger that has been building up inside of you for these months. She can't help you with it, only make it worse. <BR>It was fair to ask about STD's. He is the unknown factor and this is a great way for STD's to get transfered. No easy way of asking about it. It needs to be asked. Everyday healthy people pass them on just like anyone else. The OM's past conquests could have given him anything that could be passed on to you. Your obligation is to protect your health.

RWD:<P>No, you’re not stupid for asking, maybe it could have been gentler, though. I know the hardest thing I ever had to do was tell my W I had “safe sex” with another woman. It crushed her, but she had a right to know that she didn’t have to worry about that at least. We had enough on our plate at that point in time.<BR>

RWD,<BR>You are so right about counselling, the questions you bring up, the conversations you have, would be in a whole different light at counselling then just between you two driving down the street. She takes everything as a lashing out, that she is a bad person, that you still blame her, (and she is right, but they can't seem to be able to say, "You are right, I deserve all this and more, I will take all you have to give me, and when you are done, we can start a new." It don't happen!!!!!! They even try to turn the tables, when they should be coming up with this blame on themselves, thinking of the testing themselves to protect you, wanting to do everything, say everything, to get in your good graces again. (my H even sold his car that she rode in to get rid of the thoughts we both had---- furnature? yes, bad idea to keep that in my opinion!) BUT, if a counselor suggests that, it seems to be acceptable, Almost, "OH YEA, I can understand how that would make my H feel.----" You aren't saying the wrong things, you aren't asking the wrong questions, she is just in that state of mind, that it is hurting her, and she isn't ready, she isn't thinking of your feelings, (not that she is trying to hurt you, but, she is messed up right now, coping with what she has done is making her think and react this way, AND you are coping with something that you didn't ask for, it's a wonder you can even think at all!!!! If you were living together, had the GOOD conversations mixed with the bad, got her back into " US mood", things would be different. She has to start giving her ALL to you, let ALL her energy go into this new marriage, start seeing that you are willing to give her unconditional love. When you get this together, you have to get off the past, and work on the NOW. Build up your feeling again, make New memories, get through the Special anniversaries, holidays, week days, by creating new ideas, new memories that you can hold on to and be able to remember next year. It's alot of work, alot of egg shells to walk on, because you both have a lot of RAW feelings. TIME TIME TIME !!!!! Just get her home, then start the work. Make a pack---- No yelling, understand what ever you both say,( it is only because you are trying, not pointing fingers.) No running off, let each other help, be understanding, have conpassion on both sides. Be adult about this, give and take. Just some thoughts? I've had to learn the hard way too!!!!<BR>Almost <P>-------<BR>TIME