We could use your input on Suzet's thread.

2B is being treated VERY disrespectfully.

I know you would not allow your FWW to be talked down
upon and her sins rubbed in her face as is being done on that thread.

This was said more than once:
"The OMW was harmed when you pulled your panties off and got it on with her husband."

So we would sure appreciate some of your wise words of understanding; some of your thoughtful, gentle, caring and ENCOURAGING advice.

Thanks, Mary

IWRA, is there anything untrue in my words?

"The OMW was harmed when you pulled your panties off and got it on with her husband"

What about this statement could you possibly disagree with? She did harm the OMW when she crawled into bed with her husband. She did pull her panties off and crawl in to bed with him.

That is an absolutely truthful statement that cannot be denied. If you or 2BNormal deny it, that says more about your OWN RECOVERY than it does about anything else because it means you are in denial.

It is disrespectful to pull off your panties and hop in bed with married man. I am sorry you don't like that truth, but it is not me who did that, but 2BNormal herself.

Affair sex is digusting and repulsive, IWRA, and a truly recovered FWS sees it as such HERSELF.

Honesty is the FIRST STEP in recovery, IWRA, not denial, not deceit. HONESTY. And honesty starts with oneself.

The fact that what you would say is true (or think is true) does not necessarily make it right to say. Often Satan's accusations are true; he is an expert at being a judge. He is even called "the accuser of our brothers" (Rev. 12:10). You may be pointing your finger and speaking words of truth, but you may unwittingly be an instrument of the devil as you speak.

My Goodness, MelodyLane, you just cannot stop rubbing PAST sins in people's faces, can you?

You even came to this thread where I requested Owl.

Did you know when we repented and our Lord forgave us,
we were no longer UNGLY but we became BEAUTIFUL?

What earthly good does it do for you to keep repeating about
taking off the panties for the OM?

And there are other points of view about telling OM's wife after years have past. It IS on his head, it IS between him and God. I have not read where Harley says to tell after many years. He says to tell to STOP the affair!

What WW or FWW would feel safe coming here to MB for help
with you rubbing their sins into their face? How is that helpful?

Is that what they do to recovering alcoholics at the meetings?
Rub in every past SIN they did while intoxicated?

My oh my, Mel, you do not have any empathy whatsoever.

People like Owl, can give SO MUCH ENCOURAGEMENT, without
the vile bitter words. He is a BH, yet he would never ever
talk disrespectfully to anyone, even if they were still involved in affair.

I guess you would say I RESPECT him and his words of advice.
I cannot say the same for you.

It is not "satan" who is accusing you, though. It is the TRUTH. You accused YOURSELF by climbing into bed with a married man.

Is there something wrong with saying the truth? Surely, you would be the first to admit you hopped into bed with a married man. Right?

Let's clean it up then shall we?

The OMW may have *felt* [not actually have been] harmed [if she knew..what she doesn't know doesn't cause any harm] when a person she didn't give her consent to [gotta stay away from those "you" statements] having consensual intrapelvic friction with a man who was married to her [can't say he belongs to her..how offensive..what is he an object!] in fact DID have said friction without her knowledge either prior to the act or retroactively.

Oh please, no one is "rubbing her past sins in her face," we are HAVING A DISCUSSION about her affair, for crying out loud. If she doesn't want to discuss it, she shouldn't come here and........discuss it!

There is absolutely no need to use nice words to describe a FILTHY, piggish act that any truly recovered person will find just as filthy. Folks here are not obliged to accommodate you or anyone else with doublespeak to assuage a guilty conscience. Good grief.

And besides, I offered to change my description to "2 pigs rutting in the pig pen" since y'all didn't like the other phrase. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

A TRULY recovered person will be just as sickened at their dirty deeds. When someone objects to a TRUTHFUL PORTRAYAL of their bad behavior, I know I am speaking to an person who IS NOT IN RECOVERY, because they are not honest about the true nature of their sin.

Oh but it is satan that will accuse you of your sin and make you "think" you have not fully repented. Satan loves to mess with your mind. But, I stand on the truth that I am fully forgiven by a loving and merciful God.

Yes, there is something absoulutely wrong with speaking truth when that truth is spoken with harsh criticism. And when that truth is spoken to hurt the dignity of another human being. And when that truth is used to point fingers at someone who has repented. And when that truth not used to encourage someone. And when that truth is not used to build up another person.

**** Brownhair, ducking for flying objects ****
**** inserting thread-stopper (ouch, that hurt) ****

People p-lease !
Stop it !
Just let it go - and agree to disagree !
There is no "winning" this...
Just more hurting, without anyone changing their minds.

A recovered alcoholic is recovered BECAUSE they were honest about their drinking. We don't get worked up into a lather when someone says we were a PIG when we drank, WE AGREE BECAUSE WE KNOW IT'S TRUE!

I have NEVER DEMANDED THAT people soft soap my abhorrent behavior while I drank, because no one is obliged to PRETEND my behavior was anything other than what it was really was.

What is there to cry and gnash our teeth about it? ACCEPTANCE and HONESTY is the first step in TRUE RECOVERY. When someone DENIES the nature of their act, that is called DENIAL. And that AIN'T recovery, Madam.

Honestly ML, I HAVE NOT DENIED the nature of my act. (your words)

IF you will re-read my post from last night, MY HUSBAND and I have made a joint decision in this. IF I WERE DENYING the "nature of my act" I would NOT have repented to God, I would still be having the affair, I would have NOT confessed to my husband.

Please agree to disagree because we will NEVER see eye to eye on this.

2B,

And who is messing with your mind COULD IT BE SATAN!!!!

Truth is truth and facts are facts. You did it and now don't want to hear it. Do not hide behind God, no one but you hurt your dignity and if you have truly repented, asked for and received God's forgiveness this would not bother you as it would be considered "Testimony", not as an attack and as harming your dignity. Get over yourself already! Maybe you are one of the ones who should have been stoned at the gates of the city! Where is your Scarlet A?

2BNormal, you can't even stand to hear the TRUTH spoken about your affair. That tells the whole story right there. THAT is denial of the GRAVITY of your sin. When you demand that others soft soap your behavior and not describe it accurately, that reflects your own feelings about the act.

2BNormal, it is not "satan" who is telling you that true repentance means confessing to your victim and making amends to her. It is not satan who is causing you to show a complete lack of compassion and empathy for your victim.

You guys (and girls) please stop it.
It's just my gut feeling.. could be wrong... I feel we're pushing 2B to the edge, but not in a good way.
I think the point has been AMPLY made.
I think it is sinking in.
Just my gut feeling..

Well...it's EXACTLY this kind of thing that has caused me to pretty much leave MB.

This is the same thing we teach our kids. There several ways to say what you want to say. One is designed to help fix the problem...the other is to simply make the other person feel bad (attacking the person, not the problem).

Mel's method is to make people feel bad in the hopes that it will motivate them to change. This works great in some cases...but in many other situations (such as this one), all it does is antagonize.

The affair isn't still going on. Being insulting and disrepectful and downright vulgar does no good. But you can't convince Mel of that.

**********************EDITED**********************

Agreed.

And it is sad that someone like you who treats others with dignity and respect should have to leave MB.

But isn't a person supposed to "feel bad" about sleeping with someone else's husband? If seeing the truth written about her acts makes her "feel bad" wouldnt that be an indicator that it is the ACT that makes her feel bad? I don't know about you, Owl, but I think when someone does something wrong they are SUPPOSED to feel bad.

The only "disrespect" I see here is that being heaped on the OMW, 2B's victim. It was disrespectful to sleep with her husband and it is disrespectful to callously refuse to tell the woman. There is nothing "civil" about that.

No one has "insulted" 2BNormal here, she is offended because someone stated the truth about her actions. It is the TRUTH which she finds so offensive because her ACTS are so very "vulgar," "uncivil" and "disrespectful."

Owl...since you're here...dahlink...would you mind looking at this link for me... My attempt at assertive... Asking for your honesty, if you have time...

I think it applies to 2BN's issues, as well...and the age-old one...

When we state things as fact, THE truth, rather than our beliefs, we are injuring on purpose...Mel doesn't want to back down in anyway, and yet I find her beliefs as valid, if not more so, if she would say, "I believe" "I think" with obvious ownership.

I have no doubt Mel owns all of her stuff...could it be in the presentation...full of "you" statements, that we have this repetitive problem?

Or is it in the carrying it on portion? Could 2BN have possibly not responded...except she heard what Mel was saying?

Is it the continuation, the referrals, that feel like backjabs, pinches and slaps? Some of it is us; some of it is not us. This repetition of a statement belief does sound like someone attempting to MAKE another poster do something. We know they can't. Then why repeat?

Or is it the statements themselves, taken as universal facts...instead of human opinon?

Finding the bite is difficult for me. I appreciate your help.

LA

LA, I don't believe it is injurious to state a FACT as FACT. Some things are FACT, some are not. Some things are true, some are not. The validity of a belief or fact is contingent upon reality, not how it is framed or accepted by the target. I think that no amount of truthful statements to 2BNormal will have an impact because she is clearly truth averse. And thank God, we are not obligated to accommodate her in her appalling flight from that truth.