I do not find the TRUTH offensive. What I find offensive your disrespectful attitude and the way you love to point fingers and vulgarly state the truth.

MelodyLane, if you repented for a sin and have been cleansed of that sin, should others constantly tell you of that sin all of your life so you "feel bad about it"? Would you like like others to constantly point their finger at you and tell you with vulgar words over and over again what you have done even though you know you have repented to God and have been forgiven?

2BNomrmal, you are offended to see the TRUTH written about YOUR ACTIONS, so don't tell me you do not find the truth offensive.

If you repented of a sin, you are right, no one should rub your face in it. However, that has not happened. Repentance comes with making amends to your victim. If you hit and run a child with your car, you cannot say a quick prayer and be on your merry way, you have to render aid to the body you left in the street. But you have not done that. The body still bleeds in the street. Remember her?

And I would point out the OBVIOUS about "constantly telling you of your sin": You are HERE DISCUSSING YOUR AFFAIR, YOU BROUGHT IT UP. So, no one has "rubbed your face" in it. You inserted yourself into the conversation voluntarily.

What is "vulgar" is taking your panties off and leaping in bed with a married man. What is "disrespectful" is the way you have treated your victim. It was your ACTS that are "vulgar" and "disrespectful." NOT the words to describe them.

2B, NO ONE called you out and asked you questions.

YOU- are the one that keeps bringing it up.

She has been coming here for MONTHS trying to get endorsement of her various rationalizations. When one doens't work, she leaves in an offended huff, and comes back with another!

2Bnormal, I have told you over and over again, you DON'T NEED our approval. You are not entitled to it and will NEVER GET IT. Just be happy with your decision, instead of endlessly looking for new loopholes, rationalizations, cheerleaders, etc. Just move forward and accept that most ppl are not going to endorse your deceit and be happy with it. YOU DON'T NEED OUR APPROVAL! REALLY!

Wow...were you there when I was kneeling at the alter and pouring my heart out to God in tears? Were you there when I repented? I just didn't know that...silly me.

2B, I am offended by ML's words, but only precisely because they ARE TRUE for me and every other WS. I hate to hear about it, I hate to see it in writing, not because ML said it, but because I DID it. I think forgiveness means God will not count the sin against you...it will not be used as evidence against you so that you will live in eternal damnation...but I don't think forgiveness means pretending it never happened, or that it will be completely forgotten. God will not use it against a repentant sinner, but I believe He would not hesitate to use it at some future time to remind you of something if needed!
ML hates the sin, not the sinner.

"What is "vulgar" is taking your panties off and leaping in bed with a married man. What is "disrespectful" is the way you have treated your victim. It was your ACTS that are "vulgar" and "disrespectful." NOT the words to describe them."

WHAT IN THE WORLD IS WRONG WITH YOU, MELODYLANE?
YOU CAN'T SEEM TO STOP YOUR DISRESPECTFUL VULGAR MOUTH!
How many times are you going to say that in this thread?
Actually, WHY do you keep repeating it over and over to a FWW???

Just because YOU think she should tell the OM's wife, her husband thinks that is the WH's responsibility.
Should 2B and Suzet obey YOU or their husbands?

If you think jamming YOUR opinion (which I don't even think is Harley's) down another's throat is HELPFUL in any way whatsoever, you are WRONG. Your antagonizing posts work exactly the opposite way. Not helpful, not helpful, not helpful.

Loving Anyway and Owl get much more results with their UNDERSTANDING AND KIND approach.

THEY GET IT and give GREAT advice!

And..if everyone here thinks I am just pretending this NEVER happened...then you are sadly mistaken. And I also agree that it will never be forgotten. What has happened has changed me, my husband and my marriage. No one here knows me personally and I can't possibly write down EVERY SINGLE DETAIL that has happened in my mind, my marriage and my life, nor do I want to.

PLEASE DROP THIS! THANK YOU!

I can really understand why her husband doesn't want her to tell. It would look really bad that a minister's wife had an affair- is that a nice enough word to describe it?

Again, there are two ways to say things. One is meant to assist the other person in resolving the issue or to better understanding of the problem.

Example: Mel COULD have said:

"2BN, OMW was harmed when you and OM had the affair."

Instead, Mel says things like:

"The OMW was harmed when you pulled your panties off and rutted like a pig with her husband!"

See the difference? There's no intent to help...or at least it surely doesn't do anything to assist the poster...instead, it's deliberately phrased to antagonize and hurt the other poster.

I don't think that 2BN is the only poster here who's got a lot to learn...I think Mel could stand to let go of a lot of her OWN anger without taking it out on others.

Armchair psychiatry is over for today. Have fun ya'll.

I think ML is right on this and all this other talk is just deflecting the real problem. Some people are blunt talking and some are coddlers. I think this place needs both of them.

I see a lot of justification for actions on this site and I think people sometimes need to hear the PG version instead of the G version to get a point through to them.

Affair does not seem to be such a bad word. After all it is just a word. Now if you say I was screwing another person’s spouse behind both of our spouses and spending money and time away from our families well then it sounds worst.

If I am a BS which I am I want to know what my wife has been doing. I see nothing crueler for me then to have other men sleeping with my wife and then my wife and these OM deciding that I do not need to know about it for my own good. This is to protect me??

If they want to protect me then my wife should not be screwing other people. And I think it is really stinks when other people get to decide what I should know. Here are some thoughts:

I want to decide if I get STD’s
I want to decide if I get AIDS
I want to decide if I should pay for child that is not mine
I want to decide if I should be married to a person that would do this to me.
I want to decide my life choices.

I know my WW did not want to tell me or anyone the truth on what she did. I should get to decide about my own life not anyone else. It most certainly should not be put in the hands of the man that boinked my wife or my wife that betrayed me. If she is going to do those things to destroy my marriage then I need to know about it.

After all if it was such a great thing to do in the first place why not tell everyone? I certainly don’t think the OM and his wife should determine what I need to know. If ML gets through to people then more power to her. I think it is needed when people try to justify not telling a BS what has been going on behind their back.

In my case I wanted my WW to go ahead and continue doing what she was doing just don't expect any financial support from me. It wasn't just the humiliation of what she was doing but I was funding it! ML words may hurt because they are true and we don’t like to face the consequences to our actions. Just my own humble opinion.

I don't have any issue at all with Mel (and anyone else) continuing to discuss the need to tell OMW.

And I don't think that this thread is deflecting from that...the issue in this thread is what's considered appropriate posting behavior for this site.

Is it acceptable to post directly vulgar, disrespectful, and down right attacking comments on this site?

Personally, I can see where 2BN is caught in a tough situation...I can understand both sides of this argument. I just feel that we can all do this WITHOUT stooping to personal attacks. And THAT is the purpose of this thread, as I understand it at least.

wow, I do think Mel could have been much more vular and crude that saying what she did. honestly, I know I have thought much more vulgar descriptions of what happend between FWS and OW.

Honestly, when I read it on the first thread, I thought it seemed a very cleaned up version of what probably happened.

The truth hurts.

All this "offense" over my statement that she pulled her panties off and got it on with a married man is nothing more than a thinly veiled diversion to avoid the real TOPIC: 2B's REFUSAL to make amends to her victim. Of course it is OFFENSIVE, but only because the ACT is offensive.



And since we are so concerned with "offense," I will tell you what offends me [and many others here]

1. having affairs

2. refusing to make amends for said affair

3. the warped notion that SAYING something is DISRESPECTFUL and VULGAR is worse than DOING something DISRESPECTFUL and VULGAR
4. Absolute heartless disregard for one's victim and complete focus on SELFISH interests

5. insulting the intelligence of every thinking individual on this forum with endless, silly rationalizations

6. DEMANDING that we accept silly rationalizations

7. Arrogant attempts by a couple of misguided folks to DICTATE the posting style of anyone they view as too BLUNT for thier own personal tastes

So, since we are so "concerned" about everybody's "offense" I thought I would get mine out. However, I am not under the illusion that I am ENTITLED to not be "offended." Good grief...

"the warped notion that SAYING something is DISRESPECTFUL and VULGAR is worse than DOING something DISRESPECTFUL and VULGAR"

Why compare? Who's comparing?

And yes, Mel...you are speaking truth of actions...judging them for what they were and their results...and you are not DJing...unless you go to 2BN's or anyone else's intent rather than their actions. I get that. What I don't get is the repetition I see to one poster...

I am not trying to tell you how to post...I believe in what you say, defining the sins separate from the sinner, per se...I am asking you about your intent by your repetition.

LA

The way I see it is that if 2B or anyone else comes on and justifies their actions and they are not called on it, then it leaves others reading the threads to think that maybe 2B or any one else who justifies is right.

If they are not called on it:

It looks like it is ok to not tell the OPS.

It looks like it is ok to not expose the A at the work place.

It looks like it ok to not stay dark on Plan B

It looks like it is ok to DJ your spouse.

It looks like it is ok to make contact with the OP.

It looks like lots of things that are not ok are ok because no one called them on it.

People are called on their justifications all the time- the difference I see here is that everytime 2B justifies Itwontrain jumps to her defense and calls out all the other members of the Mutual Admiration Society of Justifying Former Wayward Spouses. And of course they call out Owl to help them.

It is a pattern that has been repeated over and over.

Say, for the sake of arugment, that this time no one contradicts it- a new WS or a new FWS reads it- they do not know that it has been debated time and time again. They see that this person justified the very action they came here lookinig for vaidation about. Wow! Aren't they glad they came here- they just got validation for that very thing, Way cool for them.

Say a newly BS reads it and thinks "oh, well maybe we shouldn't tell, either."

I think that is the reason that so many people take so much time with issues like this.

It is not a personal attack against 2B- it is an attack against the actions or lack there of.

I don't see anyone trying to say that "the act" was in anyway right or o.k. with the FWW. Not the issue at all. With or without said panties. It's pretty well accepted.

I see a few FWW followed around and attacked any time they try to post to another. I don't know why they can't post freely with out the hounds coming out to make sure they are put in there place.

JMHO

Carry on.

I am very surprised at MELs terminology, it is what I would expect 2B's BS to post in venting and pain. It is not what I would expect a poster here, to say to a FWS that we are supposed to be showing appropriate behaviour, while holding them to account for their actions. I cannot imagine hearing Dr. Bill or Joyce use these terms when calling someone to account.

Tha affair happened because 2B acted this way - inappropriatre response to a situation they percieved or experienced.

2B I am sorry this has happened, I suggest you take the high road and leave Mel to express herslf as she wishes. It does not speak to what your current actions are, but rather to her reaction to your previous actions.

Taking the high road will strengthen you spiritually and that will help you with the further steps you have to take to reach recovery.

SP

No one here is saying that vulgar language, personally attacking, or disrespectful comments aimed at someone is worse than an affair. And I would be astounded if anyone DID feel that way.

But there is no affair still going on here.

We're not comparing the two Mel...YOU ARE.

Yes, the affair is far worse. But it doesn't justify the rude, hurtful, just plain mean offensive comments.

How about trying to make your point WITHOUT attacking another person's personality? Without deliberately using comments designed to hurt and draw attention away from the issue?

Move Forward:
Have to say that a great part of your reasoning is right on the money.

As an example,
I never really had much to do either way with Suzet* (Which IS where this latest dust up started).

However,
it always troubled me that she would almost Always Come onto threads where the More Newbie BS was asking if it was possible for the WS and OP to continue working together.

Now she was never rude about it,
but SHE WOULD put up herself and Her Situation as a Shining EXAMPLE of how it could work out.

Well, needless to say we've all witnessed just where that misguided NOTION has lead her.

Problem is:
I KNOW there are numerous folks that read her words, took them to heart, made their decisions ........YET no longer Read or Post here.

Now They don't have the benefit of seeing where this type of Thinking ultimately leads You.

So it is for Those folks
that Posters that have strong beliefs Constantly Challenge those that would do possible harm [even if NOT intentionally].