Hello, I'm new here, I've read everything and want to put my story out there to get some input.

I am a 35 year old mom of 5 year old twins. My husband and I have been together since I was 17. We've been married for 11 years. We were high school sweethearts. We are affluent in our community, well known, have a nice house, vehicles and all of the ammenities.

I'm not sure where to start and I know this will be long, so please bear with me. We have been together a total of 18 years, during this time my husband has cheated on me 2x that I know of, he has dabbled with rx drugs our whole relationship. He has been in trouble at work 2x for sexual harassment. He has an addictive personality (poker, online poker, golf, trapshooting). When he starts a hobby he becomes obsessed with it and will do it multiple times a week until he masters it. When our twins were 6 months old, I found out that he had over $40k in credit card debt. I then took over the bills and he worked around 80 hours a week for 1.5 years to get them paid off. THis meant that he missed out on our kid's life and I pretty much constantly stayed home to save $$. Prior to our kid's birth, I had a very good job and we both decided that I would quit and stay at home with the kids after they were born. (This decision was made before I found out about his debt). Last year I found out that he was addicted to Oxycontin and did a doctor's assisted rehab to get him cleaned up. He still does dabble in rx drugs, not daily, but I would say weekly or biweekly. (darvocet, percocet, valium, xanax - as far as I know, nothing more).

We spent 10 months last year adding on to our house. We basically doubled the size of it. During that time, my husband did very little and was not involved much at all. I was at our house pretty much all day, every day. I picked out everything from siding to light switches. I was involved in every aspect of the house and the layout. This meant that I worked side by side with our contractor daily tearing a roof off, pulling nails, helping hang drywall. Basically my husband said that he trusted my decisions and wanted me to handle everything - so I did. Here comes the problem...I fell in love with our contractor. He is 15 years older than me with no kids. We had a very intense, very strong emotional affair (no sex was involved, but there was kissing, etc.)Before my husband found out, the contractor who is also married told his wife about me and asked her for a divorce. He saw a lawyer as well. I was in the process of making peace within myself to leave my husband. Although 2 marriage counselors have dubbed it an emotional affair, I have no doubt that it would have been physical soon. Actually, if I saw him for any length of time even now, it would probably be physical.

The emotional affair lasted 7 months before my husband found out. He told me that he was going to work, hid out in a corn field for the day, tapped my phone and when he saw me leave he entered our home and got the tape recording. When I came back from the store he confronted me. My first words out of my mouth when I saw him were "how does it feel?" (words that I cannot believe I said - I am not a cold person, but this is pretty cold) When we finally did talk that night, he was high as a kite on valium. When he found out, I didn't cry, didn't feel much remorse, I would have signed divorce papers right then if I would have had them. He talked me in to trying to work things out. My husband found out a year ago and I have stopped talking to the contractor in order to try to work on our marriage, but I have not been able to get past the resentment that I feel for the way he's treated me over the years. It is my fault that I stayed, but most of the things that he's done I didn't find out about until years later. I will say that he has severely threatened the contractor and I genuinely fear for the contractor if I were to ever divorce my husband and be with contractor.

Fast forward to today. After 2 highly recommend marriage counselors during the last year(both of whom advised me to get out). My husband has recently been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and is on medication which seems to be working, but he is still dabbling with other rx drugs (valium, xanax - things that he's not supposed to be taking). He says he doesn't want to be like this and he wants to stop, but history repeats itsself and unbeknownst to me he's taken stuff all during our relationship. According to my therapist 65% of people with bipolar mess with drugs. 90% of marriages with a bipolar spouse end in divorce. I've never cheated on my husband prior to this and have always been a nice, upstanding, loving wife. I've never been a fan of divorce and I never in a MILLION years thought I would become involved with someone other than my husband. I had feelings for the contractor for 6 months before a word was spoken about our feelings for eachother. I tried so hard to fight those feelings for him, but I was not able to do so.

I am a mess right now, I want to leave, but feel bad for leaving. I am so in love with the contractor - I ache every day without him. I've never felt this way about anyone, nor has he. My relationship with him is very pure, very natural and I feel completely at home and happy when I am with him. I am aware that only about 10% of marriages that are the result of an affair succeed. I am confident that we would be within that 10%. Contractor wants me to make my own decisions and has never tried to sway me in any direction. I care about my husband, I do love him, but I've never trusted him and don't think I ever can. He is a very good dad and I would like to keep a family intact if I can, but not at the expense of my kids or myself. I am trying so hard to love him, to trust him, but I find myself mostly disgusted with him and the way he's treated me and can't seem to get past that. When he's on his medication he is loving, caring, helps around the house and is basically everything I could ask him to be. The problem is I am in love with someone else and I don't know how to get past what my husband has done to me. The emotional affair has stopped and I am not talking with the contractor, but I miss him and think about him all of the time.

Ok, enough rambling, I will accept any and all advice/help. I just want some peace in my life, some contentment. I would appreciate your brutal honesty. Thanks so much for reading and I look forward to reading your responses.

Hi Callie,

Welcome to MB <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I understand your desire to separate for you husband until he can deal with drug issues.....but your affair (and "kissing" is PHYSICAL...not just emotional, so please don't sugar coat this okay?) is a fantasy driven out of need. Right now....you need to separate from BOTH of these men.....because you are far to confused to be realistic about either of them.....and deal with your marriage FIRST...WITHOUT any contact with the contractor! He's not your soulmate.....he's your fantasy. Apologize to his wife....and stay out of his life....you have no business destroying another family because of your unmet needs.

Get some space and time between you and both of these relationships. Do the ethical thing and allow your husband (and father of your twins) to address his illness. If he can't....then you can make a decision about what you want to do and who you want to see....but I hope it won't be a married man.

hugs.....good luck!!

I am sorry for your pain - on both sides.

I am even more sorry for the pain of the wife of the contractor. I am sure she has faults, but does she deserve this?

If you are willing to be the person you really sound like you want to be, the first thing to do is send the contractor a no contact letter then never contact him again. His W deserves a chance at saving their marriage. He might not be strong enough to do it himself.

You can never get past what your husband has done to you as long as you have these strong feelings for someone else. You will always be thinking about the other man, not about what needs to be done to fix your marriage. I AM NOT saying it can be fixed, or even that it ought to be fixed. But I am saying you won't be able to make impartial decisions as long as you have feelings for OM.

If you are willing to try, call the Harleys for counseling. They are experianced in helping those with feelings such as you have.

You will still have choices - and if counseling doesn't help in the long term, you can still D your H, and make a better life for yourself without tearing apart another family.

If you have studied, you realize that the feelings you have are real - but partly chemical, and partly emotional It will take time for them to fade, and for your feelings to return for your H, assuming he continues to help and act decently.

Peace in your life will come from doing the right thing, not from following your heart and taking another womans husband from her.

Contentment will come when you know you have done all that you could to save your marriage - no matter if it is saved, or lost.

Please talk to us - it will help you through this. All of us need help at one point or another in our lives. Let us help you through this most difficult time.

What is in your mind to do? You are here asking, so I know you have an idea of what is right. It must tear you apart to have these conflicting feelings. What are you thinking?

SS

Callie,

My brother has bipolar disorder... I empathize.

He was also a drug addict/alcoholic for many years, until he finally hit rock bottom and began straightening out his life.

Even with meds, it's hard for some people to cease previous behavior... especially if it's been a lifelong way of coping with things.

This is tough stuff.

I know the OM seems like the light at the end of a very dark tunnel, but he is NOT the man for you. Thinking about him only distracts you from focusing on the real issues in your life.

Are you a SAHM? Do you have a job? What makes you feel good about yourself?

I can see how difficult it would be to be motivated to work on your M if you don't trust your H. What do you think he could do to make you feel safe with him?

You have a lot on your plate right now. How are your children doing?

Callie,
First, welcome to MB. I applaud you for being open and looking for help. I have my four children home right now so I'm not going to be able to respond to everything I would like to so let me address a few things really quick.

Again, welcome to MB. Since you stated you've read everything I assume you will recognize a lot of what you are going to get in the way of advice.

First, there are a lot of issues here... his former A's, drug addictions, bi-polar. Those are all issues that need to be addressed.

Before that though, IMO you need to look at some things you're saying and recognie them for what they are to be in a position to even start any type of beneficial headway into your relationship.


I have come to understand, through personal experience as well as what I've seen here, that most marriage counselors would more correctly be called divorce counselors. Most of them just aren't marriage friendly when it comes right down to it.


So much of what he has done in the past really could be very much due to being bi-polar. He's been self medicating his condition for years it sounds like with the drugs. He's got to get off everything but what is prescribed for him though. Until his addiction is dealt with, HE won't be able to do much in the recovery process.


If he is truly bi-polar he probably does want to stop and hasn't been able to. With treatment and work, history doesn't have to repeat itself.


Probably even higher. Addictions (drugs, gambling, etc) are very common as a way to deal with the manic part. Drug and alcohol use is very common.

[90% of marriages with a bipolar spouse end in divorce.[/quote]

I have a hard time believing this one. I wouldn't however be surprised to find out that quite a few marraiges with an UNDIAGNOSED bipolar spouse end in divorce.


However, I would say that 90%+ of people who end up commiting adultry would agree with that statement.



Never? Well, of course you think that. You haven't had to see HIS other side. You've never had to be the one to deal with him after a crappy day on the job. You haven't sat with him figuring out the monthly budget, who's family you'll visit on the holiday's or any other REAL, CONCRETE, REAL LIFE event. You haven't had one single true moment with him. Why? You both show only what you want the other to see. You aren't even in the category of knowing each other as well, as truly well, as someone on a second or third date.

Sound absurd? It's not. Part of being a couple, of dating or really getting to know someone is socializing. You don't do that. Even if you sneak out somewhere together you don't know how he is to your mom, to your best friend, to the grocery store clerk. You know what he WANTS you to know. The same as he knows what YOU want HIM to know. You may know a lot of things about him but OF him?

What you know OF him is that he is willing to forsake his wife for a woman who is willing to cheat on her husband.


Okay. This one gets a big huge bunch of bile burning up my throat. VERY PURE?????? ARE YOU KIDDING????????

There is nothing, nothing, nothing PURE about falling in love with a man who is not your husband. There is nothing PURE about a man who would allow you WHILE HIMSELF MARRIED to come into a friendship with him that would develop that far.

THERE IS NOTHING PURE ABOUT COMMITING ADULTERY. DO NOT PRETTY IT UP BY TYPING THE WORDS EA!!! YOU ARE A MISTRESS!!! AN ADULTERER!!!

Okay. That probably sounds mean. It's not meant to be. Instead of typing EA though, instead of calling it anything else,

every time you type or speak of this situation

call yourself a mistress

refer to yourself as the adulterer

call your relationship an act of adultery

Why?

Call it like it is and see if it still feels natural.

Is that a label you want? Do you want your little children to look at you as such? "my mommy the mistress/adulter/homewrecker" doesn't have a very pure or natural sound to it.

If you really care for this man, even as a friend, do you want to see those terms (minus the mistress one) applied to him?

Chances are that one day, when real life hits both of you and you both realize that you threw away your families, your children's stability, that you walked away from your own beliefs, standards.... you're going to look at each other with resentment. You can't keep up your fantasy when the bubble breaks and real life lurks in every corner. You can't hide from what you've done, what you left behind.... or the worst, what could have been.

You don't know the answer to that because you haven't tried. If you have any feeling for this man, if you have any respect for yourself or love for your family, work on it, if it doesn't work, then leave. You can never be with this man though because you have both sullied and destroyed anything PURE OR NATURAL that could have been between you with the stink and death of adultery.


More like 2%


Regardless of what the percentage is....even if it were 90%, so what! It doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it pure.

It wouldn't make you any less of an

adulterer

mistress

participant in adultery

or make you any less responsible for the

DESTRUCTION

of your childrens lives

his wifes life

and every single person both of you know will similarly be hurt and lessened by your actions


Wrong.

You know the best way to get my kids to look at something I don't want them to.

Tell them I don't want them to.

He tells you he doesn't want to sway you and wants you to make your own decisions?

If that were true he wouldn't even have to SAY IT. He'd leave. He'd tell you to go back to your husband and work on your marriage.

He doesn't want that. HE'S ALREADY TOLD HIS WIFE HE WANTS A DIVORCE.

Neither one of you left your marriage FIRST. If your marriages were so bad you would have left without the others influence.

He wants you to. Damn it.... he's leaving his wife. You owe it to him now. Of course, that wouldn't be a nice guy stance to take so he'll tell you what you want to hear.

"Don't do it for me" really means he hopes to ensure you'll do just that for him.


this is not a caring action. You can't just say it and not live it.


this is not a loving action. You can't just say it and not live it.

You say both things because you think you should, not because either of those things have one single bit of input into your actions.


then you should have left before your contractor came along. It just doesn't ring true after the fact.


You can not keep a family intact by having an affair. YOU are most important to you right now. You husband, even your children, factor not into your decision to be an adulterer. Do not say you want an intact family when your very actions are what are making it impossible.


Can you expand on this? How is being faithful at the expense of your children? How is it at your expense.

Honey, you've cheapened yourself. You've lowered your own beliefs and standards to meet want you WANT.

A person having an affair doesn't do it because they don't have morals but because they have changed their morals to have an affair.

You are cheating, being a mistress and homewrecker, and THAT is what is "the expense" of being in an affair is.


You can't get past the past because you aren't creating an environment to try. You are rationalizing your adulterous relationship. Pure? Natural? YUCK. Give your marriage as much thought, care, patience, tenderness that you give the affair and see what happens.


Okay. I've sounded harsh I think. I guess I had more time than I thought I did to write.

You are in withdrawal. I can guarantee you're no picnic to be around right now. Your H is dealing with his new diagnosis and a drug addiction.

You need to work on YOU. You need to value yourself, your integrity. Find the respect you lack for yourself.

You have a long way to go until you'll know if your marriage can be saved. Whether it can or not, you're a married woman. This contractor has shown himself to be a man who is capable of cheating. So have you shown that part of yourself to him.

You and your husband have issues to deal with both within and outside your marriage.

Your children deserve that you both work diligently on both.

Your reasons for not working on things, for not being able to feel like you want to, are typical.

What you say is typical.

This post, minus the details, is no different than a million others.

You have maritial issues... everyone does. Your husband has personal issues to deal with that only he can.

If your marriage isn't going to work don't let it be because you've fallen into adultry. Let it be because you stood by your husband, your life partner, the father of your children and after going through every possible action to save it, you couldn't.

Don't leave because there's some man who will leave his wife for you.


It may not sound like it, but I am pulling for you. I think you're here because you know it's wrong. I get the feeling you feel lost and hopeless in your own heart, in your family.

Being someone's mistress, committing adultry isn't going to fill anything. It will in the end fulfill you much less than even your current state of marriage.

You are standing on the edge of a cliff looking down towards the jagged rocks instead of reaching up for stable ground.

Please stay here and learn. Get strong. Be strong not only for you and your children but for the man you married.

You are very likely his stable ground too.

You have an opportunity to be a hero to your family and to yourself.

That's a much better title than the alternatives.

FIM

I'm not sure I'm replying to this right, but here goes. I posted and was pretty nervous to come back here and read your responses. Thank you for your insight. I guess firstly, hindsight is 20/20. If I would have looked at things as clearly and as thoroughly as I should have, I should have ended my relationship with my husband a long time ago. Unfortunately I'd always believed and hoped that he would wake up and realize one day the way he's treated me. I know he deeply loves me, but has never treated me accordingly.

I do realize than an affair is terribly WRONG. It doesn't change the way that I've felt about this man (contractor) for 1.5 years though. I haven't really talked to him for 5 months, but my feelings aren't diminishing. How do I get past that? How do I get past all that my husband has done to me? How do I become receptive to him when is is on his meds and being a great guy? I want to, I wish I could transfer feelings from contractor to husband, but it's not happening. I know there is not much I can do in my marriage when these feelings towards contractor are so strong. How do I stop them? I've stopped the contact what more can I do?

Faithin me - wow, firstly thank you for your honesty. Although I don't agree with all that you've said, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I have to ask though, if you can be this hard on me, what would you say to my husband and all that he's done to me? This is a genuine question - do you feel that I owe it to him to give my marriage ANOTHER chance? We have been to 4 counselors in the last 10 years. 2 in the last year since my affair. The last 2 have told me to leave. Obviously I haven't.

When I said "at the expense of myself and my kids" what I mean is the drugs, affairs, addictions. Sometimes I think I would be better off a single mom than to expose my awesome kids to this? The thing is, he is a good dad, kids adore him, but they also are 5. It doesn't matter if someone is on excessive xanax or not, actually he's probably more fun when he's on it to them! Sorry, not at all trying to be defensive or rude. I was pretty upset after reading your post and alot of what you said hit home, hit my heart. It was pretty tough to read, but thank you.

Thank you all for your responses. What I am hearing in cyberspace is definately different than what I'm hearing in real life. Actually, only about 4-5 people know about the affair or the way that my husband has treated me over the last 18 years. I've always covered it up, it's been a facade. Please keep the responses coming, I appreciate them greatly.

Actually, I'd have quite a bit to say to him. He's not the one here though so I didn't address that aspect. Since you asked though I would tell him to stop hiding... behind the drugs, behind the excuses. When he refers to himself he needs to acknowledge his uglier side too.

Adulterer

Addict

Gambler

He needs to look in the mirror and acknowledge he has many illness... alchoholism, drug addiction and being bi-polar. He's recently been diagnosed you said. He needs to own what part that illness had had in his life and what he has spilled over onto his family.

My mother was a drug addict. She also had numerous mental illnesses. It's not something I am unfamiliar with. My XH had numerous affairs so I'm also familiar with that. I'll also share something very new to me that I am still coming to grips with. I have very recently been diagnosed as bi polar. It's been undiagnosed and treated as depression for years. I thought I had postpartum depression. As it turns out I had a great doctor who recognized I was actually in the depression part and am now being treated differently.

If he's just been diagnosed he needs to know he's got a lot to come to terms with. I did. I didn't take kindly to that diagnosis either.

Right now I would tell him that he possibly has the opportunity to change his life but he needs to be a man and step up. He needs to see what he has done and own it regardless of the why's. He's bi polar. It doesn't give him leave to be an addict or an adulterer.

And that's what he is. An Addict. An Adulterer. I would tell him he is actively destroying his family - his wife, his children and every other person around him.

I'd tell him most of what I said to you.

Understand this...... he has as much responsibility as you - 50 / 50 ..... when it comes to the state of your marriage before the affair.

However, your choice to have an affair is YOURS.


Yes I do. Absolutely. Can you look at your children and say different? If you walk away now will you ever be able to say it WASN'T because of your affair? You haven't tried everything because you've checked out emotionally, physically. You've given your time - time you could have been here looking for ways to work on your marriage, time you could have spent with your children, time you could have been giving as a precious gift to yourself - you've given that time and energy into a nasty adulterous affair.

Can YOU honestly say you shouldn't be giving your marriage a second chance?

Ask yourself this, will you be able to live with the questions you'll have if you walk away without giving it another chance? Things have changed. There may be a different way to deal with your past problems. You've just come to MB. Call Harley. You haven't exhausted your efforts.

Will YOU feel deserving of respect and admiration from your children, your family, your community if you leave due to adultry?


I would urge you to try MB counseling. Steve is wonderful. He's especially in tune with WS's. Please call him. He's marriage friendly and an expert in infidelity. Unless one of those counselors has saved more marriages from infidelity than he, go with that. My guess is they've counseled more through divorce than not.

The fact that you haven't left is neither here nor there at the moment. You're having an affair. That is so much more hurtful and destructive than looking at your husband and honestly leaving. It's not only destructive and hurtful to him... but to you. You have by your own words done something you never saw yourself doing. To do so, you had to lower your own expectations and beliefs. THAT is very very sad.


Were they previously less awesome? How does the introduction of the contractor into your lives make them more awesome and worthy of saving now? Or has your perception of that changed along with the lowering of your belief system? I don't have the answer. You need to be very honest with yourself about what is prompting this now.

And I might add you are not talking about being a single mom. If you walk away you are going to jump head first into a relationship with this contractor.


I know that. My mom was most fun when she was high. I'm not suggesting, nor would anyone, that you stay with someone who refuses to change.

You said he doesn't want to be this way.

You said he was just given a treatable diagnosis.

That is what I am suggesting you hold out for. While there is hope there should be an attempt.


I didn't find you defensive or rude. Quite the opposite. I think you want to do the right thing. Look at what hurt, what touched your heart. I didn't want to hurt, but I did want to touch your heart.

The decisons you make will be felt for years.... generations. You have to live with that, not me. I'm just reading your story and hoping for the best.

FIM

Thank you so much for your help. Pretty wierd, I've been to two counselors for the last year and both have basically said "you're smart, you've got a good head on your shoulders, you know what to do and you'll find your way." (meaning leave husband). For whatever reason, I can't look into my kids eyes and do so yet. Through your responses here, I'm starting to look at things through different eyes.

My next question, you all say that the affair with the OM is a facade, not real. I understand the basis for what you're saying - I don't see him after a bad day at work, first thing in the morning, when he's in a bad mood etc. The thing is, I've seen alot of him because I've known him for 10+ years, he knows my entire family, I have seen him grouchy, being a jerk to his employers when he's mad etc. No, that is not the day to day stuff that his wife sees, but he didn't censor much around me either when I worked with him day in and day out for 10-11 months on our house.

Now on to the question...I am a smart, educated person. Deep down, I don't think I can be convinced that my love for him is not real. I've had feelings for him for 1.5 years, I haven't talked to him for 5 months. He can't call or get ahold of me because my husband is a hawk. Wouldn't these feelings fade or diminish if they weren't real after no contact for that long? Some days I miss him so much that it hurts, I get depressed, sad and can't function. I understand the butterflies with a new love, but this is deeper, more substantial. I really, truely connected with him. How can that be a facade? Wouldn't this ache go away without talking to him for 5 months? Really, I'm trying to understand. I also understand the addiction part. I can contact him at any point via his cell. I know he's always got it on and would take my call any time. I haven't done so because as much as I would love to talk to him, it's worse for me to function if I do. If I talk to him then I want to talk to him again, see him.

I want to try to repair my marriage, especially if I can keep my husband on his meds. My husband is a good person with a good heart, he's just done some really crappy things. He knows this, he's remorseful and wants to change. Hopefully with his bipolar diagnosis and proper treatment he can. So how can I forget about the OM, if only temporarily so I can focus on at least attempting to repair my marriage? I've not contacted OM, what more can I do????? Thanks for your patience, even more thanks for your help.

Callie,

You have made a good choice to come to MB. There's a lot of great advice and support here. faithinme provided you with good info, I have to agree with everything she says, although I wouldn't have shortly after my EA ended. I am a FWW and can relate to how you are feeling. I remember thinking the way you are thinking. Have you read Surviving an Affair and Not Just Friends? I recommend getting both books. Along with reading MB, the information will help you see that your situation is not unique to you and the OM, and will provide you with support. I think that it was a big step towards my own recovery...knowing that my situation was not unique, that my relationship was NOT the exception, like you have mentioned, thinking your relationship would be among the few relationships that last among affair partners (I thought the exact same thing) and that the feelings of being soul mates is a very common feeling among ppl involved emotional affairs. I am about 6 mos. into total no contact with OM and I can tell you that the feelings do fade and the feelings for your husband will come back as long as you remain in no contact with OM and and as long as you are open and honest with your husband. You have to be willing to tell him everything about your relationship with OM and you have to be willing to share the feelings you currently have for OM so that you do not have any secrets. Secrets drive distance. It is important if you want to restore your marriage. You may not know for sure right now that you want your marriage. But do you know for sure that you DO NOT want your marriage? From the sounds of it, you do not. You have said that your husband is a good person with a good heart. Your husband may have done some bad things in the past, but that does not justify your affair. Know that you have torn your husband apart by having your relationship with OM, regardless of what he has done to you. It is a hard thing to face, but it is true.

I was in the same position as you once. I felt I was in love, that I had found my soul mate with this OM, that my kids would be fine without my H and I together, that I loved my husband, but was not in love with him' etc. When you are in the fog this heavily, you will find any and every reason to justify your relationship. I do not doubt that the feelings you have are real and strong, however they are feelings for the fantasy relationship you are in. They do not take into account how your kids will feel when their daddy is not there. Your feelings do not take into account how terribly hurt you will feel when your kids ask you when daddy is coming home. Your feelings do not take into account how inadequate you have made your husband feel, how much you have turned his world upside down. And they do not take into account the extreme saddness you will feel when you have not tried hard enough to keep your marriage. You cannot remember how much you love your husband, but it is there, and you will only see and feel it when the fog lifts. You have to know though, that as real as this feels, it is fog. You probably will not forget about OM, but the feelings will evenutally fade as long as you have no contact. Someday you will look back like I did and won't believe some of the things you are feeling and thinking now.

You said that sometimes you feel like you would be better off as a single mom, not having to expose your kids to the drugs, affairs, addictions. It is true that you should protect your kids from those things. Your kids have been exposed to your affair, whether directly or indirectly. Our oldest son, 7, knows some information about my affair and why my H and I are sometimes sad and have problems, and I hate to say that it has affected his sense of security (I asked my H to move out early in my A, and there were also times that my husband and I were seriously considering separation back in March, so it sucks that he even has to have that question in his mind). I hate that my kids were affected by this, but I can't do anything about it now. The only thing I can do now is to realize that I failed to protect my M and my family, so that I can protect us all in the future and prevent the destruction and hurt that I have caused us all.

To go back to one of your biggest questions...how do you stop your feelings for OM? Time, talking to your husband, read books, read these forums, ask questions, journal, exercise, read more, talk to hubby more, cry, play with your kids, spend time with your H and most importantly no contact! Make sure your husband knows your weaknesses so that there is no chance for contact. If my husband had not watched me like a hawk either, I would have had a harder time with no contact. I still did in the beginning, I found ways to make contact. I didn't have complete NC until about a month after D-Day. I finally told myself that "I want to do this for myself. I don't want to be head over heels for anyone other than my husband. I want to be happy with myself and I don't need to be happy thru OM. If I keep talking to OM, I will never get thru this, we will never get thru this and will only set us back to day 1!" It takes will power and support, it is like a drug addiction, and it takes understanding your husbands pain to know how much it will destroy him each time you have contact with OM. I would be weary of marriage counselors too (aka divorce counselors as faithinme suggests). My H and I went to one psychologist whom we only saw once... good thing because she has her own issues to work thru. The second counselor we saw we went to for about 2 months. We usually felt good when we left, but would get home and fall into a slump. We finally realized (for $90/hr) that we were getting so much more useful info from MB, reading books, etc. and decided that that $90 would be better spent on date night. She was not actually a marriage counselor, but a life coach who could not even save her own marriage. Be careful who you talk to. I finally learned that the only person I should look to for advice or support is my husband. All others are full of good intentions, but they cannot relate and may be biased in their opinions. Also, by reading about others situations on these forums, you will see the hurt that exists and the reality of it all. It will help you get thru your situation some. You will get thru this and can get thru this. Glad you're here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Callie,

I believe you that you say you are "in love" with the OM. This euphoric feeling is fantastic. It is what romance movies and novels are made of. It is the weak-kneed feeling you get after your first kiss. It is the longing and excitement you feel on your honeymoon.

The problem... these are feelings and are based upon a chemical reaction in your brain much like the feeling your H is getting when he is taking his drugs. You are an addict to this feeling.

Love is NOT a feeling. When you say that you are "in love"... it is that you are feeling high when you think of a particular person. The thought or sight of him induces a chemical reaction which feels good. We all love that feeling... it is the most powerful feeling out there (IMO). That's why A's are so easy to happen. This feeling fools us into thinking of love... and we justify it this way.

Love is much more than that. Love is shown in actions... it is shown in forgiveness... it is shown in understanding and acceptance... it is shown through boundaries... it is shown with patience... it is shown through respect... and compassion.

A marriage is much more than feeling "in love"... that feeling is a bonus. A marriage is to learn to be a better person, a better spouse and parent, a better friend, lover, neighbour, Christian. Love is about yourself... honoring who you are and respecting your own life. Having an A is not respecting yourself. Learning to respect, understand, have patience, set boundaries, become intimate... all of this is growing yourself to a better person... and by doing so, you can LOVE. (Coles notes version of my understanding...)

Live with integrity and respect. Live with Love. Do not be fooled by the high of "in love". That will end as well with the OM in time... if you have not learned to show love.

You can find happiness and peace and contentment... but you need to look for it in the right places... starting within yourself.

Shaden

Thank you so much for all of your help. I'm still trying to weed through this website and read everything that I can. I'm still hanging in there and trying my best.

What I am hearing in cyberspace is definately different than what I'm hearing in real life.

It's hard to know how to say some things. Let me say again that I don't know if you should stay with your Husband. I don't know that. If he continues to do drugs and doesn't change, I would recommend your D him. Things like "Kick him to the curb" come to mind.

This is not the only thing you have to deal with. Is it?

You have to deal with the fact that because you were so tired, and so vulnerable, you fell in love with another womens husband, and he is ready to leave his W for you. You know this isn't right. You know she doesn't deserve this.

The first thing you should do is write a no contact letter to him, telling him that what you did was wrong, and that you will never see him, or contact him again in any way.

Was it love? I believe it probably was. Your H had already divorced you emotionally. We all desire love, and affection. From your writing, you are a warm, careing person that had already given too much for too long.

If you have read "His needs, Her needs" you know that we are open to fall in love with anyone that meets our needs. It is much worse when your have been in an abusive relationship. In your case, I think it would have been difficult for you not to have feelings for this other womens husband.

I hurt for you. I know you are still in pain, and the right path may lead to more of it. There is not an easy, pain free way out of this. You want the feelings of love to continue, and wonder why they are so strong even now. Again, if you read Dr Harleys work, you will understand your feelings a little better.

It often takes 18 months to two years for the feelings to fade for the other person, and to rekindle the love for your own spouse. THIS IS IF YOUR SPOUSE IS MEETING YOUR NEEDS, AND AVOIDING LOVE BUSTERS. Your H may be meeting your needs in some ways, but he is engaging in love busters that prevent you from loving him. He is doing the same things that got your marriage in trouble in the first place.

All these things are working together against you. His LB's, your feelings for the other womens husband.

My feeling is that you won't know if your marriage SHOULD be saved until your feelings of love fade for this other man. Everything you say and do, is colored by these feelings. The picture you paint for the counselors you have seen, the things you say to yourself in your mind when you think about it. All of this is skewed by your feelings.

Please understand that we care about you. We don't want you to be unhappy. We want your children to have the best life they can.

Please continue to talk to us about your feelings, and your plans. I think it will be good for you. Please think this out for quite some time before you make a decision. Time is your friend right now, and your ally. Time and patience.

God be with you.

SS

Still Seeking - wow, thank you so much, you seem to have been able to pull out from my posts exactly how I feel.

I came here tonight, wanting to post, hoping to find some wise words to help clear my mind. I'm having an especially hard time this week for some reason. I miss the OM so much that I ache. I will probably get reamed for saying that on this site, but it is how I feel. I truthfully think about him all day. He is the first thing on my mind when I wake up, the last thing on my mind before I go to sleep. I can't even escape him when I sleep because he is in my dreams. I have had NO contact with him for 5 months and this is what I feel almost daily. I am completely miserable without him.

My husband is trying his best to be nice, help out, meet my needs. You know, he had my heart for 18 years, throughout our marriage I spent quite a bit of time telling him that "this isn't the way a marriage is supposed to be". Because of the immature childish things he did I became his mother. I did not want that role, it was a role I was forced to take. If I did not stand up against the things that he was doing it went against every moral fiber of my being. I yelled, scolded, you're xx years old you shouldn't be doing this or that. I also always told him that I would reach a point one day when I was done. I always told him that I knew if I reached that point there would probably be no turning back for me. He would just look past me or around me at the tv, never really saying anything. I will tell you that as much as I loved my husband, I have equally resented him for the things he's done to me. I don't know how to get past that.

I'm trying my VERY BEST- with every OUNCE of my being to get myself back into my marriage. I just haven't been able to. I just can't. I have lived like this since my husband found out about OM 1 week shy of a year ago. You know when he found out and the first time I saw his face I did not cry, I did not try to tell him that OM meant nothing. I told him the truth - I loved OM, if he wanted a divorce we could get a divorce. How cold is that of me? I am ALWAYS conscious of other peoples feelings. My GUT feeling was that if anybody deserved to go through this, it was him. After EVERYTHING that he'd done to me HE deserved this. I will tell you this is not how I am with any other person on this earth. I'm ashamed to even type what I just typed.
Somehow he talked me into hanging out for a while to see what our options were.

After the bipolar diagnosis, meds have definately helped. He is kinder, gentler, nicer, more helpful. Still takes the occasional drug, still plays occasional cards, still misses the occasional family leave day from work. He says he wants to completely stop the drugs, stop smoking, eat better, exercise blah blah blah. Do you know how many times I've heard this during the last 18 years?????

Bottom line to this post. I am not ready to let go of my marriage. I want to at least try to see what we can do. When I look into my kid's eyes, I want to know that I did EVERYTHING short of living a miserable rest of my life to save my marriage. How can I forget the OM, how can I even begin to give my husband a chance? Does he deserve that chance - I don't think he does, but I want to give it to him anyway. Really hurting tonight, thanks so much for reading and for your help.

I should also add to the previous post that I realize that a lot of what my husband did was because he was undiagnosed bipolar. I understand that, but a punch in the gut still hurts whether it was intentional or not.

I don't have any advice, but did want to say that you seem to be doing a great job of really being honest -- at least here -- about your feelings. It seems like that's a huge, and very hard first step for lots of WS's.

Heck, I think it's probably pretty hard for lots of BS's too! It was for me.

I think that sounds like a pretty good start.

Still Seeking - wow, thank you so much, you seem to have been able to pull out from my posts exactly how I feel.
When one has been here for a while, and seen this play out over and over...... you want so much for the person to pull through this, and be whole again. You are a wonderful person in so many ways, but I fear for you.

It is good to keep in mind that we are fellow travelers, not professionals. From my own research, Dr Harley is better than most at this, and his materials can help you. But, you do well to remember we (this forum) have our limits. There is also a danger in thinking your opinion is as valid as the next persons. It's hard for you to be impartial right now.

Having said that....... though I can't know exactly how you are feeling, I feel for you, and want so much for you to get through this in the best possible way.

I came here tonight, wanting to post, hoping to find some wise words to help clear my mind. I'm having an especially hard time this week for some reason. I miss the OM so much that I ache. I will probably get reamed for saying that on this site, but it is how I feel.

Your feelings are .............. your feelings. Feelings are not something that can be turned on or off in an instant. They can't be changed by simply wishing. They can be affected by what you do, and what you let yourself think about.

There may be some who will be harsh in their comments. Remember they care and want the best for you. Some have been betrayed, and the wounds are still raw. Don't take it personal.

I truthfully think about him all day. He is the first thing on my mind when I wake up, the last thing on my mind before I go to sleep. I can't even escape him when I sleep because he is in my dreams. I have had NO contact with him for 5 months and this is what I feel almost daily. I am completely miserable without him.

I think, knowing the little bit I do about you, that you would be miserable with him also - knowing you helped destroy the life of his wife.

Consider what is known about love. It is partly chemical. And partly emotional. Much of what affects you right now is chemical. I'm not sure how you found MB, but it is clear to me that writing about this and thinking about it are stiring up feelings. I am guessing it is resetting your feelings for him, and starting you into withdrawl again. It's real, and it's difficult. It's a real problem, but there are things you can do.

We can only think about one thing at a time. If you don't want to be consumed by thoughts of this other womens husband, you need to think about something else. This is a good chance to talk to your own H about it. If he can step up, and help you, he might just be able to help you pull this off. IF not, you learn what you want to know.

There are confirmed ways to change our thoughts. They are not instant, and they are not a cure all, but they help.

Music is one of the best ways. There is power in music. I recommend you sing to your children. Childrens songs, nursery rhymes, hymns if you are a church going person.

Talkin to your H about what is happening is another help.

Keeping your self occupied with important things is another. Not busy work, where your mind can wander, but something that involves your mind. Reading uplifting materials, studying to pass the bar exam, (insert your own ideas here.) Something that demands your attention.



My husband is trying his best to be nice, help out, meet my needs. You know, he had my heart for 18 years, throughout our marriage I spent quite a bit of time telling him that "this isn't the way a marriage is supposed to be".

If it helps - my W had to deal with that from me for years too. What is wrong with so many of us that we can't see where our happiness lies, and take proper care of our spouse?



Because of the immature childish things he did I became his mother. I did not want that role, it was a role I was forced to take. If I did not stand up against the things that he was doing it went against every moral fiber of my being. I yelled, scolded, you're xx years old you shouldn't be doing this or that. I also always told him that I would reach a point one day when I was done. I always told him that I knew if I reached that point there would probably be no turning back for me. He would just look past me or around me at the tv, never really saying anything. I will tell you that as much as I loved my husband, I have equally resented him for the things he's done to me. I don't know how to get past that.

I am so sorry that you have been without a companion and a friend for much of these 18 years. It is hard to write to you, and encourage you to try, knowing at least in part how hard you have already tried, and for how long. I think of our twins - girls, now 13 years old. Once after an arguement, they asked me "are you and Mom getting a divorce?"

It shocked me, and no, we didn't get a divorce. Now, 4 years after finding MB, our marriage is wonderful. IN fact, sometimes, I can't believe how good it is.


I'm trying my VERY BEST- with every OUNCE of my being to get myself back into my marriage. I just haven't been able to. I just can't. I have lived like this since my husband found out about OM 1 week shy of a year ago. You know when he found out and the first time I saw his face I did not cry, I did not try to tell him that OM meant nothing. I told him the truth - I loved OM, if he wanted a divorce we could get a divorce. How cold is that of me? I am ALWAYS conscious of other peoples feelings. My GUT feeling was that if anybody deserved to go through this, it was him. After EVERYTHING that he'd done to me HE deserved this. I will tell you this is not how I am with any other person on this earth. I'm ashamed to even type what I just typed.
Somehow he talked me into hanging out for a while to see what our options were.

I am glad he did talk you into staying, and someday, you will also. Not that this is a sure thing, but you need to know you did everything you possibly could, or it will haunt you forever. Forever is a very long time.

I can see how you would be ashamed. Please know we care, and want to help. Honesty is a good thing here. Necesary for getting proper help.

Perhaps he does deserve it. Perhaps he deserves worse.
Perhaps your childen deserve parents that love and serve each other.

You must believe you deserve happines - and you probably do. Lasting happiness. Joy in your life. A husband who loves you, honors you, cares for you, and protects you, and your feelings. What's the best way out of this mess, into what you are looking for?

I still think it's NC, and time, and patience.

After the bipolar diagnosis, meds have definately helped. He is kinder, gentler, nicer, more helpful. Still takes the occasional drug, still plays occasional cards, still misses the occasional family leave day from work. He says he wants to completely stop the drugs, stop smoking, eat better, exercise blah blah blah. Do you know how many times I've heard this during the last 18 years?????

Please don't think we discount what you have been through. If you want to leave, you can leave. Only you know the depth of the he11 you have lived, and if you have given all you have to give. I am sure we don't know the half of it. I can only imagine............ I know hard it was to raise the twins with both of us, but to do it by your self........


Bottom line to this post. I am not ready to let go of my marriage. I want to at least try to see what we can do. When I look into my kid's eyes, I want to know that I did EVERYTHING short of living a miserable rest of my life to save my marriage.


I don't want you to keep working with someone that takes drugs. I doubt if the MB materials will work with someone that is still addicted and using. I recommend you treat him like a business would - or a sports team. Weekly, or monthly testing, and if he stays clean, you stay and try. If he doesn't, he moves out.

If this were 15 years ago, maybe you could try lots of different things, but it's too late for all of that.

I am throwing out ideas. Addiction is not my area of expertise. I do not suggest you stay with him if he continues to use drugs. You have given so much already - it's his turn to step up, and help this go.

Please consider calling the Harleys for counseling. I think you need expert help.

How can I forget the OM, how can I even begin to give my husband a chance? Does he deserve that chance - I don't think he does, but I want to give it to him anyway. Really hurting tonight, thanks so much for reading and for your help.

Thanks for trying, even though you doubt. That is real courage, and you have my respect.

Work on changing what is in your mind. Change your thoughts, practice doing that. My suggestions may sound simplistic, but I know from personal experiance that they work.

I have faith in you.

SS

Callie,

At this point you are both addicted. I think you are seeing why it was sooo hard for your H to be the man you wanted right? Throw the drugs, gambling, and everything out, and he still had a huge problem...bipolar. It will NOT be easy for him to be the man you want.

But, let me ask you something, if he became the man you wanted all of these years, what would you do? Would you even want the chance to do what it is you would want to do?

My thoughts are that he needs to KNOW what is required of him with regard to the drugs and everything else and that includes staying on his meds. He needs to find organizations that will support his recovery and seek them out. He needs to become accountable to someone ELSE for staying on the right pay. He will need support.

Guess what, my advice for him is the same for YOU. You are addicted and if you want to give your marriage a chance, you need to kick the habit. I think you are getting the idea it won't be a straight forward thing to do.

What are you addicted to? The hormones running around your brain. It is probably NOT OM, but the thoughts of what OM represents that really has you going right now. But, like any addict you must admit that you are and then seek help. You are starting on that path, but you will need help and I think good counseling is called for.

You have many resentments stored up and Someone has to help you address these things because no matter what your H did in the past, he cannot change the past, just now, and the future.

Some things to think about.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you so much SS and JL. It's very hard for me to believe that someone that I've never seen or met would take the time to help me so much. I don't have much time right now, but I have thought of printing out this whole post and letting my husband read it. My fear is that he will be so upset that he will be an emotional mess, withdraw and take a xanax, valium, whatever.

Initially I was completely honest about everything with him - my feelings, where the OM and I met, what was said, etc. It sent him spiraling downward, he started unbeknownst to me taking drugs pretty regularly, started calling OM, threatening him. It was if he temporarily went insane. (This is all prior to him being diagnosed as bipolar).

I'm not sure how he would react with just being on bipolar meds and supposedly nothing else. Frankly, things are so fragile right now that I would be scared to risk honesty with him.

I'm not trying to paint my husband as a crazy junkie. He's not taking things daily now, but he does occasionally (maybe 1x a week??? I really don't know) I should also note that he has never taken things daily with the exception of the oxycontin which he got off of last year. It's always something rx like valium, xanax, darvocet, percocet, vicodin. Not street drugs. Bottom line - when he's on his bipolar meds and nothing else, he is normal, rational. My fear is that if I am completely honest with my feelings to him, this will send him south again and I'm not sure what I will be dealing with. He could handle it like a rational loving husband who wants to make this better, or he could go off the deep end again. Will post more later - I'm off to take my antsy kids swimming. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thanks again so much from the bottom of my heart. You are so kind and caring for helping me.

Hi Callie,

I think your fears are well-founded. One of the reasons I became conflict avoidant was because my brother was a drug addict/undiagnosed bipolar and he use to RAGE if he was confronted with things. He would hit, throw things, scream and be completely out of control. Growing up I learned to keep my mouth shut, because if I didn't I would get a lamp thrown at my head.

You do understand that the uncertainty surrounding your H's illness and drug use are what's keeping you "in love" with the OM, right? You can't stop thinking about him because the fantasy you created seems so much more appealing than the instability you have to deal with on a weekly basis with you H.

Have you tried MC since your H has been on meds?

Does your H belong to any support groups? My brother now belongs to Double Trouble, a support group for those with both mental illness and drug abuse. It has helped him tremendously.

Is that something he would consider?

Callie,

Ok, many things to say. Please read 2Crazy's thread particularly the part the KiwiJ is posting to her toward the end. Then go read the post that Plank and KiwiJ put together. You will see many things there that will open your eyes.

Now to what you said.
Rational fear but NOT one you should use to avoid what you need to do. I will explain to you what you should seriously consider in a moment.


Don't blame him "going temporarily insane" on his drug use or bipolar. You need to read more about what this does to the betrayed spouse especially one that loves deeply AND is very likely very dependent on their spouse for emotional stability. The response you got, is NOT unusual in the best of circumstances.

You then say
So you think a "rational loving husband" won't go off the deep end? Do you think ANY husband or wife should just calmly accept that their spouse is cheating on them, lying to them, and feels they are in love with another person? What do you think, that he doesn't have feelings, that he does not depend on you, that he does not love you? That is the only way this would NOT hurt him to his very core.

You seem to be expecting that he should be "alright" with this and then just get down to making you happy. Let me explain something to you. YOu will find many BS's here trying to work on their marriage, but what you are seeing the product of huge pain, deep love, and a LOT OF WORK, after finding out that they have been stabbed in the heart.

Your H may well come to the point that can handle this, but not until he knows what it is that he handling. Which brings me to a strong suggestion.

Quit running from this and using his bipolar and drug use to hide behind. You don't want him to hide behind it right? Well, you shouldn't either. What you should do is make an appointment with is therapist, counselor, doctor and tell him what you H needs to know in their presence so that they can mediate this. Someone who your H respects, will listen to AND knows the situation. You should also discuss HOW to tell your H with this person before getting together. It is entirely possible that he willl need to read it to process it.

My point, don't do it alone, but do it. It will take a plan, coordination and some support.

Frankly your H's behavior to date is NOT that unusual and to expect differently suggests that you have NO CLUE as to what you have really done to him and your family. The clues will come of that I am sure.

Please think about using a third party to mediate what needs to be done.

God Bless,

JL