JL,
I don't know for sure, but I think she was calm and supportive when she found out about HIS TWO affairs. So, she wants to get the same help from him with hers. She expects him to be supportive to her, as she was to him.

However, he may not have it in him to do as well - so I hope she reads and understands what you are saying.

Callie, sorry to talk about you as if you weren't here. Tell me if I'm wrong.

I hope you are doing better today.

SS

Thanks again for the responses. When I said I meant he went off of the deep end - he put on his uniform every day like he was going to work and didn't go, he would drive for hours high as a kite trying to self medicate his way out of this. He would call the other man's cell phone blocking his calls and when OM didn't answer he figured out OM's password to retrieve OM's messages to see if I'd called him. He called OM 20+ times within 24 hours leaving bizarre drug induced messages. He's mentioned thoughts of suicide. He's made comments like - "I could run him over dead and drive on not thinking a thing of it. He does not know who he's dealing with or what I'm capable of." "I can fu#$ his world up". This is what I"m dealing with. To me this is NOT rational, not normal AT ALL. At times I feel like I'm writing the script for the next Lifetime television movie.

I don't expect him to forgive and forget as I was expected to do with all of his transgressions, but at least communicate, be an adult. His actions thus far have not been so. I should also note that these actions are before he was diagnosed as bipolar and on meds. He is now on meds and doing much better, but if he goes off of his meds or decides to throw a few valium or xanax or whatever into the mix, I do fear for OM. I'm not just talking about a punch in the face, I'm talking about something much worse.

BTW, the last counselor did diagnose him as bipolar about 3 months ago. We started seeing him for marriage counseling, but I think husband began to fear that therapist would start requesting drug tests. He has not gone back since, so I've went by myself.

I will say that my husband deeply loves me. I am the only person in his life who has always been there for him, always had his back. Sad to say, but ALWAYS trusted me. He's never had parents, family or friends that have been so dedicated or loyal. The thing is he says feels like he had a piece of gold in me - my response is... a piece of gold that he threw in the dirt and stomped on like a piece of coal.

I realize that OM is completely different than H. He's the kind of person that you could sit down with and talk for hours with at Starbucks. My H wouldn't even think of carrying on a conversation for that long, let alone @ Starbucks. I am in such turmoil over this (rightfully so, I know), My H has always had my love, but he's NEVER, NEVER had my trust. I know that to move forward I need to be able to do both. Trust that there will be no more drugs, trust that you won't abuse our finances, trust that in 4 years I won't be finding out about affair # 3, or that you really did go to work and weren't out playing cards. Can I do that? Can I ever trust him again. I know I have a mountain to climb, I've got tons of resentment, sometimes I wonder if things are so toxic that maybe it would be better to just get out, move on. When I think of that I look into my 5yo twin's eyes. How can I take their dad away?

I would also like to note that I would not jump from a marriage into another one. I know that I would need quite a bit of time to heal - I would also NEVER introduce someone on that level into my kid's life so soon. I have not or would not think about jumping from one marriage to another. I wouldn't do that to myself, my kids or my husband.

Bottom line. I would love to be completely honest with him, but I am not sure how he will handle it. He is doing much better on meds, but I'm not sure he is stable enough to take this. Any suggestions on how I can get through the resentment? How I can start to look at my H through different eyes? Right now and for many years my vision has been clouded. Truth be told, I have felt this way for a long time towards my husband. My resentment is HUGE. We've seen four counselors within 10 years, I've talked, yelled, screamed, cried until I'm blue in the face. NOTHING has ever gotten through to him. In 11 years of marriage NOTHING has ever gotten through to him. THIS did, I know I have his ears now. Where do I start?

Callie,

You asked The short and correct answer is...counseling.

Did you know that the Harley's will NOT do marriage counseling while someone is addicted to drugs, alcohol, etc.? Why, because the promises won't mean anything, the insights go and come. One cannot build trust on that basis.

Simply put you cannot cure him of his addictions, he must do that. If your requirement to continue this marriage is that he seek counseling and treatment in order to consider remaining, then make that statement...NOW.

You have your work do do. OM must go, but so must your H's addictions or it is likely YOU must go. Your call, but set your boundaries, you have his ear, but BOTH of you must recognize that curing what ails him is NOT about will power, which he no doubt has tried and failed at, thus reinforcing his self-image which is bad. This stuff is more powerful than will power, he needs help.

Your addiction to OM is more powerful than will power. You need a friend, a spouse, someone you respect to make you accountable. You need to be able to talk to this person when the temptation grabs you, seek these people out.

Callie, you cannot cure your H, and frankly you cannot cure what you are feeling without help from somewhere.

I don't mean to sound so down, but that is the reality of it, from my point of view.

God Bless,

JL

Callie,
Glad to see you here. First thing is dealing with your addiction to OM. As a FWW, I remember the stage you are in too well. I think it must be hard to stop playing the "what if" game in your head. But one thing you DO know, OM is willing to mess around with a married woman.

I like what Dr. Phil says about "you have to earn your way out of a marriage". If you found out that OM had evaporated, what would you do about your marriage? You don't want to be a woman that left her marriage for another man. You can say that you wouldn't jump in, wouldn't bring him around the kids, yada yada yada, but I said all those things too. It doesn't happen...

Let's deal with your addiction first, then you and H can decide what kind of marriage you can have.

And no matter how bad hubby was for years, you train people how to treat you. You have no excuse for your affair, not because of what it did to your family, but what it did to you. You weren't raised that way, and you have let yourself down.

You are in the right place, you will find alot of support here from former wayward wives and betrayed spouses that will be rooting for you.

Callie,

I agree that treating H's addictions is the number one priority (whether it be drugs, spending, etc.) If he doesn't stop using, you will never trust him and your relationship will never be able to grow. He seems like a very extreme person, and his reaction to OM was very extreme.

Could you sit down with him and tell him how you are feeling... you can't stop thinking about OM and something in your relationship has to change... you're so happy he's on meds, and it's making such a difference... you want to grow more as a couple. Make him understand that you are still NC with OM but he is on your mind... it is a symptom of your M... do you think he would "go off the deep end" on OM even if you weren't in contact with him? Would he understand the difference between your fantasy and reality?

Also...

If you and your H worked really hard on your M, he would eventually want to sit and talk to you for hours in front of Starbucks. And you would want to talk to him. I know this because I once thought like you, and the effort I put into fixing myself and my M has done absolute wonders for how my H and I communicate. It IS possible.

Katie Mae, Thanks for your help, I know that you've replied a few times about your brother being bipolar. Can you tell me if he's stable? Does he take his meds the way they are supposed to be taken? One thing that I really fear for my husband is - after reading alot about bipolar and reading bipolar boards, it seemed to me that the only people that do well are the people who are "in tune with themselves". They know their manic and depression triggers and avoid them. They resist bad impulses, They understand the illness and do everything to manage it. Basically they step up and deal with it.

I'm not sure my husband is responsible enough and as of now I'm sure he's not in tune with himself to know his triggers. Husband has always been one to sweep things under the rug and never deal with anything. He always gives into impulses as well.

I'm afraid that even if I stay and weed through this mess, if he doesn't become responsible enough to deal with this I won't be able to will end up leaving anyway. I also think that this illness will be put on MY shoulders and as his "mom" I am the one who says are you taking your meds the way you're supposed to? I've been the one who points out his manic phases as well as his depressed phases. He agrees with me once I point them out, but he's clueless as to why he feels the way he feels before I point it out. I have no problem sticking by him as his wife, but I don't want to be his mom when it comes to this illness. Does that make sense? He's got it, he needs to be a responsible adult and manage it. If we can work through this mess, I would do everything to help him stay stable, but I don't want to be responsible for his stability - meaning, I don't want to keep nagging about meds, triggers, do you see you're in a manic phase, or you need to get out of bed, you've slept 10 hours you're going to trigger your depression. I don't want that responsibility.


I've lately found out that he's ALWAYS self medicated on some level. Maybe a valium here, darvocet there, percocet - whatever. It may be 1x a week or 2 x a month. I don't know and I've NEVER been able to tell when he's on something. THat is until recently when I've found out that I had to be on the lookout for things. I can usually spot it now. If you wouldn't mind, can you give me some info as to how your brother is coping? Does he still have the ups and downs, the instability even when on meds? I guess I'm new to this and want to learn what I'm dealing with here. Ive read about it, but never talked to anyone who has it or is affected by someone who has it. Thanks!

Hi Callie,

Yes, my brother is stable. He is in both Double Trouble and AA, is working out, and eating healthy. He hit rock bottom before making a change. He still has ups and downs (even on his meds, which he takes daily) but they aren't like the ups and downs while not on meds. He just has days where he's feeling a bit down, or hearing voices (he has schizoid affect with his bipolar.)

I don't know if my brother is a good indicator of what your H could become. He'd done drugs since he was 12, and was misdiagnosed up until he was nineteen. He doesn't work, is heavily dependent on my parents, and hasn't had a serious relationship since high school (he's now 31.) That being said, he has made HUGE improvements. Only because he hit rock bottom (he developed epilepsy as a result of his alcoholism, and almost died) did he start taking charge of his life. My parents always provided a safety net for him. Do you think you provide a safety net for your H, so he doesn't have to do the work himself? Just something to think about.

I would like to give a shout out to Kari Jean on the Recovery board to come and talk to you. She's a FWW, and she has bipolar. She is married and doing quite well. She could probably help you out better than I can.

I'll be back!

Found out that my husband started doing drugs at 12. I can't even imagine. He became sexually active @ 13. I know 12 and 13 yo's and I am just speechless. He's had a rough childhood, bad parents. We come from two VERY different worlds. Both of my parents are still married, divorce is not common in my family. We have had therapists amazed that we somehow came together. He is very different now on the "other side of the tracks" if you will, but his old ways are still there buried beneath everything. He is 36 and has probably had problems since around 20. Looking back, I would say that I've been dealing with a mental illness for 16 years. Thanks for any help and insight that you can give me, I appreciate it.

Callie,

See, this is a big part of the problem. You just found out your H started doing drugs when he was 12? How well do you think you really know your H, warts and all? Do you feel you are having (or have had) real, intimate conversations with him? It seems your M is lacking real intimacy.

Also, I was thinking about your situation and wondering if you are having an increase in thoughts about OM now that your H is on meds and doing much better. When things go well, it's scary to think that they can go wrong again, and maybe your H's new behavior is "too good to be true." It's much easier to escape and fantasize about OM...

Callie1,

Hi. Katie Mae asked me to come here to your thread to see if there was anything I could share with you, as a FWW and someone with BPD. As I told her, I'll certainly do my best!

I didn't read your entire thread, mostly just your posts on it. Because of my observations, I'm going to talk to you about BPD only at this time, and I'll explain why later.

This statement says so much about you:



No, your H isn't responsible. No, he isn't "in tune" with himself. No, he doesn't know all of his triggers. Almost all people with BPD "sweep things under the rug" and avoid conflict. Same goes with lack of impulse control. Why do I know these things? Because I know A LOT about BPD. You, my dear, do not. It was resoundingly clear to me, in all of your posts, that your knowledge of your H's illness is inadequate. Unless, of course, you are choosing not to educate yourself about the illness. I really do not mean to sound judgemental or rude, I'm just calling it as I see it. I'm sure what I have to say is not what you'd like to hear.

If your twins were diagnosed with a rare childhood cancer, would you do research on it? I'm guessing you would research until you could educate the DOCTORS about the illness. Can you honestly say you've done this for your H's condition? You make his illness sound like something he has control over. Trust me, he has none. Your H has a very serious illness, and IMHO, you are using it as an excuse to leave him and run to Mr. Contractor. THIS is why I won't be addressing your A with you.

I did not receive my dx until after my A. My H had TWO very good reasons to leave me, an A and a mental illness to boot. Know what he did? Research on BOTH issues, accompanied me to every psych. doc. visit, got me into MC with SH, met my top 5 EN's constantly, lost weight, lost sleep, became a living zombie, fathered AND mothered my children while I laid in bed for a week during a med withdrawl experience from he11. Watched me go through withdrawl from OM, listened to my fog-talk, took emotional whiplashings for no good reasons. He was my rock. He saved me, our family, and our M.

What's it gonna be darlin'? "For better or worse," or the grass on the other side? Only you can make that choice.

I wish you and your H all my best. May God find a way to your heart, so that you may find truth, forgiveness, and purpose in your life.

KJ

Katie Mae, I am for sure feeling like "things are too good to be true with H." In all of the 18 years that I've been with him they always go south. We can have sunny skies, for a few weeks, but the storm ALWAYS comes. Also, I know alot about my H, but not nearly enough. He never has or would talk about his childhood much. We DO NOT have much intimacy and NEVER have, that includes in the bedroom as well. It pretty much is and always has been lacking in the intimacy dept. I know that is a huge symptom of how deep our problems run. Thanks so much for your help and insight on bipolar, you've been so nice, helpful and toughtful. I hope you will continue to help, I've gained alot from you

KJ - I have been very involved in H's diagnosis. Any information that he knows about this illness is what I've found and dug up on the internet and through talking with our counselor. He will read or listen to my findings, but has not yet took it upon himself to actively research this on his own. I have to also clarify that his diagnosis is only about 3 months old, so I for sure am inadequate in my knowledge of this illness. I also want to make it clear that if we can weed through all of the mess that we have, I will firmly stand beside him in dealing with his mental illness.

What I DON"T want to do is stand in front of him dragging him behind me. I need HIM to actively manage this illness and not put this 100% on my shoulders. As of now the only thing that he has done is take his pills 2x a day, he will also admit that he tries not to think about it. My fear is that he thinks this will all go away as long as he takes his rx. AKA : sweeping this under the rug. He has also skipped, self adjusted his meds on his own. He can't do that and I need him to be responsible enough to not do that stuff. THis may sound harsh, but I have kids, I don't want 3 anymore and that's what I've always had with him. I need him to step up and manage this illness to the best of his ability, so far he has not done that.

The only way I found out that he self adjusted his meds was confronting him about his moods. The only way that I found out that he was throwing xanax,valium or whatever into the mix was by confronting him about his behavior. Bottom line, he has an illness, HE HAS TO ACT LIKE A RESPONSIBLE ADULT and manage it! He's putting me in the position of his being a detective mom again by doing this crap.

I have to politely ask, did you read my first post which was an overview of what he's done to me during our 11 year marriage? I ask that, because I felt like you were saying that I'm ready to bail just because of his diagnosis. I have ALWAYS stuck by him through everything and will do so with this, but I want to walk BESIDE him with this not IN FRONT of him! I've led the way too long, I want a partner!

I've said before here that a punch in the gut still hurts whether it was intentional or not. I have clearly stuck with him through better or worse, the problem is that I always seem to get the worst. I will say that a bipolar diagnosis explains alot of his behavior, but it doesn't take away the resentment that has built up for years.

Thanks for your insight, can you direct me to any good places or forums online dealing with bipolar? I have looked on my own, but haven't found much. Thanks and I hope you can continue to give me some insight as this is all very new to us.

Hi Callie,

I know KJ sounded harsh, but please take to heart what she is saying. She is speaking as someone with this illness, so take into consideration that your H might have similar thoughts/feelings. Granted she didn't read your entire thread, but take into consideration that some of the things you said that created an angry response. That being said, I don't think she realizes your H's history, either. It seems like you've done quite a bit for him throughout your M.

That being said, you had mentioned feeling like a "mom" to your H. As I read your last post, I couldn't help but feel you are mothering him (researching for him, monitoring him, etc.) Given his history, I can understand how this pattern has developed.

I agree your H needs to start taking responsibility for himself, and you need to stop mothering and start supporting instead. I know you've been unsuccessful in MC two times now, but do you think you could try it again? Now that he's on meds? Maybe you could counsel with Dr. Harley. It's so important to have a good MC... my H and I had a bad one at first, but our last one literally saved us.

The reason I asked if you were thinking about OM now that H is doing better is because that is typical WW behavior, lol. When my H started treating me like gold, I started looking for apartments. My M does not have the history that yours does, but seeing that you are here I really think you want to give your M a chance.

You and your H really need to start talking. Could you maybe take a weekend trip somewhere? Would you be open to counseling with the Harleys?

KJ, I apologize if my previous post sounded harsh. I guess I felt like I was being put on the defense. I feel like I've been in a war for 11 years with my marriage and people are telling me to go back in and fight harder because what I've done hasn't been good enough. I'm just so, so tired. My sincere apolgies if this sounded defensive. I know that I can learn alot from you as someone who has this illness and I hope you can continue to give me your input. Thanks for taking the time to help.

Katie Mae - you hit the nail on the head. I do mother my H. I hate that, how do I stop? If I let him flounder on his own, my kids and I have to deal with the results of his choices. A perfect example - He and I just got into an argument, because I have to work all day, he's taking the kids swimming and then wants to go play cards (poker) when I get home. When I come home I will have a house that looks like a tornado came through it, two tired and cranky kids, laundry, yardwork etc. So I will work all day, come home, clean house, laundry, get kids a bath and to bed. He will most likely leave as soon as I get home (around 5) and will play cards until probably 4 in the morning knowing that he has to get up and watch the kids tomorrow when I leave for work @ 7 am. This means that he will be tired to start off the work week (he currently works second shift, will hopefully get back to 1st soon.)and my kids will suffer tomorrow because he'll be too tired to do much with them. I will have to pick up do extra around the house because he will be too tired for the next few days. This puts me in the position of fighting him to play cards because I KNOW the outcome of his choice to play cards. He knows that playing cards all night is a bad choice, but he will almost always do what he wants to do, he has very little impulse control. I can throw a fit about him going and he won't go, but he'll pout about it all night. BTW, he played cards all night on Friday also. He didn't get home until 6:30 in the morning so I could go to work. I deal with this type of crap almost daily.

Yes, right now the OM seems like a dream compared to what I'm dealing with and feeling right now. OM seems responsible, stable and safe. I know I probably shouldn't say that on this board, but it's the truth.

This is a HUGE obstacle that we've never been able to overcome. I just want a partner. Out of the 4 counselors that we've went to all 4 of them have said that he uses me as a crutch and that I do mother him. He understands and agrees with this, but has never stepped up and taken the responsibility of himself. Very frustrated today - I just want some peace, some stability, some dependability.

I would also like to add that H and I went out last night with the intentions of going out to eat and seeing a movie. We ended up skipping movie, got a pizza, came home and spent a few hours talking which is something that we've never done. I felt like we were starting to open the doors to this mess that is our marriage. Like we were making progress, no yelling, screaming, just calm, productive talking.

Today he wakes up and it's like he didn't even absorb anything that was said last night. His request to play cards today is unbelievable to me. Friday night he played until 6:30 in morning, came home after I had to call and ask where he was, slept for 3 hours, got up to watch kids, ended up missing work yesterday, went to bed last night and slept for 10.5 hours. This is the result of Friday night cards. Missed work, neglected kids, neglected responsibilities around house and just as he catches up and recovers from Friday night, he has the nerve to want to go back for more.

How can I not try to put a stop to this? Kids and I have to live with his choices too. But by me throwing a fit and controlling his behavior it causes me to be his mother. I can't win either way. Just as I start to feel hopefull last night, it all comes crashing down today. This is my life, this is what my marriage has always been like. Any insight? Any suggestions? I'm willing to try about anything.

Hi Callie,
Good morning to you. (or afternooon, I don't know which time zone you are in.)

I commend you for wanting to do things the right way.

It looks like you want to move foreward, but don't know what the next step ought to be.

I understand why your advisors have been telling you to leave, but I think you have another option still.

Dr Harley has pretty much seen it all. His works take into acount what you are dealing with. I don't presume to speak for him, but if you have read the materials on this site, and the books he has written, you have enough information to put boundaries in place that will do what you are trying to do.

He has written 4 rules for a successful marriage. Four Rules

These are a guide to make your marriage into what you are hoping for.

If you use these as your boundaries, your decisions will be much easier to make. Your husband helps make the marriage a success, and protects you and cares for you, or you don't stay with you.

Using the POJA solves your problem with him playing cards late at night. You agree, or it doesn't get done.

If he doesn't want to live these rules, and protect you, and care for you, I don't suggest you stay with him.

Given his history, why would you want to?

You have been given good advice and help by those posting to you. Its good to hear from all the sides.

Realize it really is helpful. It will help you craft a plan that will have much more chance of success.

REMEMBER that you do have choices. I said I was glad you are trying - I am sure it is best to try. HOWEVER, you still have the option of getting out if that is best. That won't change. Don't think you are trapped, or that trying limits you. It increases your options, not decreases them.

I still think calling the Harleys here will be a great help to you. I highly recommend doing that.


First - read up on all the materials here.
I recommend "His Needs, Her needs" and "Love Busters, habits that destroy romantic love."

2nd. Set your boundaries.

3. Communicate them to your H. See if he will go through the materials with you.

4. Live the plan you come up with.

If your H will read "Love Busters" he will understand why your have concerns.

Counseling will help you know how to go from where you are now to living a live with boundaries in place - and what to do if the boundaries are crossed.

Again, remember you still have choices. We are not trying to limit you. We are trying to give you more options for success. Knowledge is power.

I also send you support across the miles. I know you need it. I recognize your effort - I pray for your success.

SS

Callie1,

I want you to know, I feel your pain. I know how much I've hurt the ones I love over the years before being treated for BPD. I wasn't nearly as addicted to any one thing like your H is (gambling), but had no impulse control and made irrational, selfish decisions constantly.

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but if you decide to commit to your M (meaning leaving the OM behind), you are in for even more than what you've experienced in the past 11 years. Your H is not stable on his meds. He needs more professional help, from a psychiatrist who knows his 5hit about BPD's. Know this; everything your H does that makes you hurt and angry, is potentially related to his dx. I'm not saying that to make excuses for his behavior, or to minimize the pain he causes his loved ones. It is just fact with this horrible illness. When you feel like he's in a good place, is when his meds are working. Obviously, they aren't working well enough. I am no doctor by any means, but it sounds like your H could have rapid-cycling BPD. Google this on the internet, and let me know if this sounds like your H. I have BPI, which is the easiest to recognize and treat. BPII comes with more baggage. Rapid-cycling BPD is almost deserving of its own dx, IMO, due to its extreme complexities. I could go on, but like I said, I'm no doctor and do not want you to rely solely on the info. I give you here.

Does your H have an excellent psych. doc? How often is he seeing him/her? If he's not stable, he should be to see a psych doc at least once a month.

I understand the fact you have more on your plate besides your H's new dx, but I gotta tell you, you need to work on his problem before you can work on your M. Dr. Harley agrees with this, he says (not a direct quote here), if one of the spouses dealing with infidelity has an addiction, the addiction MUST be resolved before any type of recovery can occur. This is the part that is going to push you to limits you never dreamed possible. You have to forget about OM if you're going to commit to your M. This is nothing new to us here on MB, but for you dear, it is ten-fold. Most people on this forum have no idea what you and your H are going through. They can give you advice about recovery, withdrawl, fog, NC, EN's, LB's, etc. until the cows come home. In your sitch, none of this matters until your H has dealt with his illness and is stable.

I know you want him to take ownership of his illness, to do what it takes to get the help he needs. Sadly, this isn't a skill people with BPD have. We can't see the forest for the trees. We can't see how our behavior affects others, at least not most of the time. This is where you come in, big time. You have to overcome the resentment you've built up over the past 11 years. That mothering of your H you talk about? Well, in some ways, you're gonna have to continue to be that sort of figure for him in the BPD arena. You may have to be the one to take his hand and lead him through HIS recovery. This means you will need to swallow every bit of hurt, pain, resentment that he has caused you. You will need to look at him in an entirely different way. My example about one of your children getting cancer.... imagine the time, effort, understanding, caring you would need to put in for them. Receiving treatment for BPD is no different. Society still does not recognize mental illnesses for what they are. They are terminal conditions. Thankfully, they are very often controllable by meds and ongoing therapy.

You are so normal for fantasizing about OM, especially given your special sitch. You're going to have to put YOU on hold until your H is well. Plain and simple. Maintain NC, or you will not be able to recover your M.

Well, I've rambled long enough. If you have specific questions, feel free to ask. I cannot stress enough, the importance of a good psych doc.

All my best,

KJ

KJ, thank you so much, so so much. My H is NOT seeing anyone right now, he quit going to his last counselor and is just seeing a family dr. He DOES seem like he has rapid cycling BPD, the thing is, it seems that it can be several times a day, but it's never really an extreme high or extreme low. I've also found out that he's supposed to be taking 1 pill 3x a day (depakote). He's been taking 2 @ night. Needless to say, we just had a huge knockdown dragout (mainly me doing the knocking <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) I pointed out everything that has happened since Friday and told him the FIRST thing he needed to do was to take his meds right. You've pointed out so much to me because he doesn't think what he's doing is wrong. He thinks because he took the kids swimming all day that he can leave me with a trashed house, cranky, dirty kids, yardwork whatever. He just left to play cards and will probably be gone for the next 9 or 10 hours. He sees nothing wrong with this and never has.

I also said that we should take the focus off of our marital problems until he was stabilized. He said he would do that and is willing to see a counselor who specializes in BPD. I've gotten a few contacts off the net and we will call tomorrow.

I also appreciate your honesty in what I'm dealing with. I am a very tough and strong willed person and don't give up easily, but I'm feel defeated and depleted right now. The thing is, I feel hopeful because I know in his heart he is a good person. He wants to do the right thing. I've always known that about him. I think if we can get him stabilized he is willing to do what it takes to repair this marriage and forgive. So for now I'm going to put my problems on hold until he's stable.

Truth be told, I don't know when all is said and done what will be left any ounce of love that I've felt for him, but think that I at least need to help get him stabilized and at least to the point where he knows more about BPD. If he won't do what he needs to do to manage this illness then I guess I have my answer. I won't live the rest of my life the way the last 18 years has been. I can't and won't.

KJ, I've googled everything on bipolar, but would like to find a good forum or website, can you give me any direction? Thanks so much again for your help and I hope to keep in touch.

Callie,

It really seems your H marches to the beat of his own drummer! I think this is typical though... my brother still does this, "oh, I'm feeling lousy today, so I'll pop two risperidol (sp) this morning instead of one", etc. This is tough stuff...

It also seems as though your H has little consequences for his actions. He just kinda gets to do what he wants, and you take care of him. This pattern needs to change, before you lose all love for him.

I agree with KJ that he needs a good counselor, and you both should counsel with Steve Harley. Have you given any thought to that?

Katie Mae, thank you so, so much. You didn't have to respond as much as you did or help me, a total stranger. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, if I could hug you, I would.

Yes, he has little consequences, he will do what he wants to do. I KNOW that this pattern has to change. I've been labeled by 2 marriage counselors as his crutch and his enabler. I'm the one he relies on to fix everything. I hate being in that position. I guess I've always thought this is the man I chose to marry, I took a vow before friends, family and God. I have to live with my actions and make my situation the best that it can be.

I do know that at some point I will have to deal with my own needs. Yet again this is all about him and his problems. My problems, concerns, feelings seem to always be secondary to his. On some levels I resent him yet again because I have to put my feelings on hold until he's stabilized. If he would have done what he was supposed to with his meds in the first place we could be further along.

Yes, I for sure have thought of contacting the Harleys. Again, I want to be sure he's on his meds right because right now I'm beating my head against a brick wall with him. I don't want to waste their time with someone who is not even rational. Hopefully the correct rx dosage will help this. One thing that I know is that this is a step I need to take to find my answers. If I need to divorce my husband I will know that I did everything in my power to save a marriage. THank you so much again KM!

Callie1,



First he needs a good psych doc. Counsellors/therapists can't work with someone who is not at least somewhat stable on meds. They'll just tell him to go see a psych doc.

Your love bank is no doubt near empty, and I can't blame you for that. And I can't help you love your H until he's stable enough to realize what he has to lose. That is up to you, and you alone. If you are the strong-willed person you say you are, then maybe you'll make it through your H's rehab. before you decide you can no longer live like this. As I said before, you have my empathy, but that's all I can give you.

Family practitioners, or GP's, have their purpose, but it is not to treat people with BPD. Broken record here, but he needs an excellent psych doc!!

I have many resources for you, but let's start with www.crazymeds.org. The guy who operates the site is a bit unstable himself at times, but has a great sense of humor and TONS of info. about different dx's and meds.

I need to go, but will check in sometime tomorrow. Good night and God bless,

KJ