Callie...

I feel like I am reading about myself when I read your posts. I know EXACTLY how you feel.

I began a thread 1.5 yrs ago here when I was involved with an EA and it ended. I had HORRIBLE withdrawal. Depressed, my hair fell out, etc, etc. That was Feb 05. I came here and got through the withdrawal and began analyzing what happened to me and why. I was FORCED to look at my marriage and realize the depth of pain I had in my relationship at home. I am STILL discerning what is best for our family.

We "celebrated" 20 yrs of marriage last month. My H has suffered with depression for all of our married life. He has been "diagnosed" as bi-polar, ADHD, alexithymia (unable to express emotion). He has high levels of anxiety and irrational fears. Almost everything you said, I can identify with. I feel as though he has been following me through life. There has never been a "partnership" or "team" concept. I have always "joked" that he is my 4th child. He has not participated in our family's life, and was not beside me as I made the decisions and built a life for our family and children. When I look back on our marital life, the overwhelming theme is managing my husband and his depression. He has a VERY low tolerance for stress, and was always self absorbed with trying to deal with his job, etc. He has had meds over the years, which sometimes work and sometimes don't. He, also, would decided on his own when he was tired of taking them, unbeknownst to me. It has been a true rollercoaster and I TOTALLY know what your life is like.

We have seen 3 counsellors in the last 5 months. One of them I began seeing individually first to help me assess my feelings about where my feelings were. Part of my issue, like you, is that I feel he has not taken responsibility for himself in dealing with his problems. I, too, have enabled the situation. And, even now, he still does not understand that he NEEDS his own personal counselling to help with his relating abilities, his depression, and his irrational fears and anxietites about his jobs.

What I KNOW, is that you MUST put aside your involvement with another man so you can discern how to deal with your marriage. YOu have many needs not being met for a LONG time. In this situation, we are SO susceptible to ANYTHING that someone would give us, because we have shouldered everything for so long and no one has taken any care for us. We have shut down our emotional base because we stepped up to the plate and took care of everything at home....the kids, the house, AND our H who was not reciprocating in the marriage. When my EA was over and had so much emotional pain due to the hole that the EA was filling. It was excruciating. I still feel that emotional pain even after this amount of time.

BUT...you must address your marriage without being "in love" with someone else. You owe that to your H and yourself and your kids. If you leave for that love, you will always question yourself as to whether you had done everything you could.

Believe me, I feel your pain, as my H and I are still deciding what to do. I never in a million years thought I would contemplate divorce. In my mind I had done all the right things, stuck by him, supported him, and put my head down and just did it. Now I realize how devastating that was for my own well-being and emotional health. Like you, I know I cannot live like this for another 20 years. I believe in "in sickness and in health", but there has to be a willingness to take some responsibility for things that can be helped and changed. What has to be determined is if the marriage can be repaired. That has to be looked at without any third parties in the background.

Sorry for the length of this...it is just that I have been struggling for so long and felt compelled to write to someone that understands all the same feelings and hurts.

Wow...

Nice to 'see' you again Cards. Been a long time.

Sorry to hear how painful things are still for you, but I can understand where you're coming from. Glad to hear that you're still working through them tho!

Thank you, Owl, the feeling is mutual...

I am so glad that you are still on the site. Your insights are thoughtful and helpful and supportive. I hope all is well for you.

Callie,
I think you are getting excellent help and advice.

How do you FEEL about this. What are you thinking?

SS

Yes, Callie, how are you today?

You're welcome... I'm happy to offer what I know... I had so many wonderful people help me when I was practically on the brink of suicide... it's important for me to give back what I received.

The site KJ mentions... crazymeds... is awesome. Not only is it informative, but it's very funny. Check it out when you can.

I understand your frustrations with always having to put H first. Until he's stabalized, he will have to be first, and I can see how that would be very, very hard. Do you ever have time for yourself? Are you able to take care of yourself?

Past counselors have labeled you as an enabler. Have they given you books to read, workbooks to do, or steps you could take to break that pattern? What have they said?

Thinking of you today and hope you are well!

KM

If you weren't wrapped up in the fog of an affair, some of us would probably believe all this isn't just another attempt at justification.... just had to point out the pink elephant.

BSCDC,

You sound like you are in pain.

How can we help you?

KM

Callie, it really doesn't look like you take responsibility for anything. Heck, you almost make it sound like it was your husbands fault that you betrayed him. But we know it isn't. In all the posts about the many ways your husband is broken, I almost forgot there was an OM in the wings.

And, why would the following be important enough to point out (from your first post):
It's like you found fault with the MC's. Sounds like you're pointing out that the MC's were wrong, that it wasn't just an EA. If it only progressed to an EA and no further, why would you even consider what might have been? Are you seeing Mr.C now, and has it progressed to a physical affair?

You need complete NC for quite some time if you really want to be of any assistance to your husband. It's the only way out of the fog.

Callie1,

Just a little word of advice. Think LONG AND HARD before you reply to posts on your thread. You need to remember why you are here. You and your H need help, bottom line. You need to seek assistance from others who have traveled the road before you. There is never any need to justify your thoughts and opinions on here, unless you want to. Remember, YOU are the WS being addressed here. Your H's illness is very concerning to me, but to many people here, they will choose to only address your infidelity issues because, well, this is an infidelity forum.

Embrace ALL that is said on this thread. Respond only to posts where you see something positive can come of it.

Just my thoughts,

KJ

Cardsonly - wow, thank you. I will listen to ANY input you can give me. Sounds like we're in very similar situations. I think sometimes when I'm struggling so hard in my marriage maybe I should just walk away. It's too toxic - maybe it will be the best thing that I've ever done. Maybe I will wish I'd done it sooner. When I'm with H, I feel sometimes feel like I've lost myself. I feel angry, defeated. When I am around anyone else I'm cheerful, upbeat, funny, happy. It is like my H can suck the life right out of me.

The thing is, my kids as any kids do love their dad. He is a good dad. I know that if I leave I will have to be accountable to them for my decision for the rest of my life. That is what keeps me here. I know that if I decide to move on I will need to make peace with my decision to do so. I also know that the only way I will have peace is if I know that I did everything possible to save this.

Last night, I was so greatful for KJ's input. It's like the counselor diagnosed him as BP, his doctor prescribed his meds and that's it. No more followups so far, no more counseling. (H doesn't want to go back to this counselor) The thing is I never thought that he fit the typical bpd. He can be down in the morning and up in the afternoon. His swings don't usually last for long periods. When KJ pointed out rapid cycling, it was like a lightbulb. I did find a local bpd support group and H is going to call tomorrow to talk to the director and get some leads on some therapists that specialize in BPD. Last night I was so happy that KJ pointed that out, but in the same sense I was secondary to H and his needs yet again. I know that's the way it has to be for now though.

H has agreed to take his meds correctly and see a therapist on his own. That is a start. Cardsonly, please continue to post. I would love to get some insight and maybe we can help eachother out since it seems we're in the same boat.

Still seeking - thanks for asking. I feel someone what hopeful, but still leery. Seems that hope is what has always kept me hanging on. Hope that someday he'll realize how he's treated me, made me feel and hope that it won't be too late when he realizes it. I guess time will tell.

Katie Mae - Thanks for asking, yes I have read some about codependency and enabling. Not enough though. I need to and will do that. I know I need to work on myself too. I also know that I need to take care of myself before I lose myself to all of this.

BSCDC - Well, I'm not sure how to respond. At first I was mad, but am glad you called it as you see it. No doubt I'm still in a fog. OM is still on my mind all of the time. We were great friends before the EA started. I not only miss his companionship, but his friendship as well. He has listened to me and knows everything that I've been through with H. He and my sister and 2 counselors are the only people that know everything. I am aware that I need to keep the NC. I know that my marriage needs to be a seperate issue from him. I am doing my best to get through withdrawal, but the instability at home does not help any with this.

As far as the justification, I've thought about that. Hope I don't make anyone mad, but I'm going to be truthful. THe moral side of me knows that an A can never be justified. The hurt, wounded, stomped on wife feels somewhat differently. Truth be told, the way H treated me throughout our relationship / marriage made it easier for me to do what I did and continue it for a few months even after he found out. Right after H found out about the EA, I found out that H was addicted to Oxycontin and did a 2 month outpatient dr's assisted rehab. It made it easier for me to keep things going with OM because I was so repulsed and disgusted by yet another screwed up situation my H had gotten himself into. Truth be told a big part of me felt that H deserved it after all that he had done to me. The moral side feels differently. I know I devastated him. I was more than a wife to him. I was his rock, his stability, truthfully the ONLY person he could always count on and trust.

I'm wondering where the basis of your comment comes from. This is an honest question - from my posts does it really seem like I'm using H's behavior as justification for an EA? I will say that it probably did make it easier to do knowing what H has done to me, but morally I know that I can't justify an EA. Thanks again for your input - didn't like hearing it, but thanks for your honesty.

KJ - Thank you for your advice - will do <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Katie Mae - I don't need any assistance with justification but thanks for caring.

Callie1 - The basis of my comment comes from my own experience. I have been where you are at now. I have said, AND BELIEVED during the fog, all kinds of terrible things of my H. I hated my H and now I can't believe what thick fog I was in! It is fog talk. You won't see it now, and you won't want to believe it either.

Have you done any reading? I strongly recommend reading Shirley Glass' "Not Just Friends" and Dr. Harley's "Surviving an Affair". You may even want to pick up a copy for your H. There is so much more to this than your emotions. Your emotions are guiding you and I don't have the ability to explain it all any better than Shirley Glass or Dr. Harley. They will also explain some of the things your H is feeling. My H went thru many ups and downs after the discovery of my A. It is a natural process given the tremendous hurt your H is experiencing and until the two of you (you and H) start talking honestly about your feelings, you'll never get thru this. These books will give you direction.

You said this about Mr. Contractor, "He has listened to me and knows everything that I've been through with H". That there is one of the biggest problems. H needs to be the one that you share everything with.

Callie, I know exactly how you are feeling. Withdrawal is not easy at all. As you go thru withdrawal, the fog will lift and you will come back to earth. But NC is absolutely necessary.

Right now, you will only read and believe what you want to hear. I know this, I have been there not too long ago. I strongly recommend picking up and reading those two books that I mentioned. They will help you with some of your questions, and will also explain to you what so many of us want to say to you, but don't have the right way to do so.

Take care.

Callie1,



This is MORE than a start hun, this is HUGE!! I know you don't trust it right now, but if your H could get appropriate medical attention, and stick to the MD's advice, the turn-around you'll see in your H will knock you over!

The advice BSCDC gives you in her latest post is very good. She is addressing you and your A. Like I told you earlier, I'll be focusing more on your H, but that doesn't mean you ignore yourself in the meantime. You still need to be accountable for your actions, and to take care of yourself physically and emotionally. Broken record here, but maintain NC or you'll have to start all over again. What little strides you've made, will all be for not.

Have you visited www.crazymeds.org yet? If not, please do.

Have a better day,

KJ

BSCDC - thanks for the book recommendations, I have several of them in my "cart" now. I will add these two.

The thing is for 11 years of marriage my husband hasn't really cared what I was feeling. I TRIED talking to him. I might have as well been sitting in a room talking to myself. I could talk about my day, my feelings, ask him how his day went, why he was grouchy etc. He would answer me with a partial sentence if that. Most of the time we would talk it was as if I'd had him chained to the chair. He never made eye contact and said very little. He wasn't like this in the beginning. I think what it is and he will partially agree is that he feels "put on the spot". He's afraid during these conversations (some just on the surface talks and some about deeper issues) that he will have to answer for his actions. For everything he has done to me I've SERIOUSLY gotten a 20 minute explanation, an apology and he will NOT talk about them again. Affairs, $$ issues, Poker, Drugs. He will give me a short reason why he did what he did and will NOT address them after that point. Hence my resentment.

I've known OM for 15 years, not at all in this capacity, but I can remember sitting on my stairway talking for 3.5 hours about cheesy things - favorite food, favorite song, favorite colors, have you ever had a speeding ticket, fondest childhood memory. These are things that my H would never take the time to find out about me. I will also say that with OM, I went deeper with him than anyone else on earth about feelings, beliefs, religion, why I'm in the situation I'm in and even the morality of what we were doing. OM and I have the same sense of humor, he is very funny, witty and always making me laugh. I probably shouldn't go on about this because I know some reading this are steaming mad right now.

If my H is NOT a communicator ( doesn't have the skills and doesn't like to talk) How is it possible to have this with him? I know it will never be the same as OM, but can the communication be anything close? Example: Last night, I got home late from work, got the kids to bed @ 9, I asked if he would talk for a few minutes. I threw alot at him during the last few days meds, counselors, books, printouts from this site and I was just wondering how he was feeling, if he was processing this info and what his thoughts were. His response : Heavy sigh...(ticked, frustrated voice) we can if you want too. I really don't want to. It frustrates me so much because I have feelings too. I didn't want to have a 3 hour conversation (and told him so), just a summary of what he thought about all of this info. Because he doesn't feel giving me that, I'm supposed to just internally deal with it, watch a movie with him while he's setting up stupid ringtones on his new razor phone.

The difference in communication skills between him and OM are night and day. I like to communicate, H hates it and avoids it like the plague. I will note that we don't even communicate about things such as "how was your day, what happened at work today". It is mainly oh dd did this today or ds said something really funny. Beyond the kids there is not much communication at all. I've tried giving H a comfortable, non confrontational field to keep lines of communications open, that does help but at some point he's got to face the music and own up for his actions. He's got some tough questions to answer and has never done so with me. He wants to pump me for every ounce of info about OM and myself, but won't give me the same courtesy in return. I have no prob being honest w/ him, but I expect the same in return. This is a 2 way street, how do I make him see this? I will take any advice or suggestions.

KJ - Yes, it is huge and I do believe that he will at least temporarily do this. I've got the # to a local support group and he says he'll call today as well as set up an appt with psych. I hope some changes come with that, I know positive change is the only thing that will keep him and us on the right path.

Still maintaining NC - I passed him in his truck the other day and wow what a setback. Brings all of the pushed down feelings back up to the surface for me. I know if I would have pulled over, he would have done so too, but I didn't. I have visited crazymeds, but have had a very busy few days and haven't had much time to dig into it very deep. I will for sure do so. I have no problem @ all with you focusing on my H - you have no idea what your insight has done for me and us. Thanks, yet again for your help.

Callie,

Surely there has to be some positive things your H has done, otherwise why would you have been drawn to him? My H and I are highschool sweethearts as well. When I was caught up in the fog of my affair, I "forgot" all the positives about my H. In order to keep my affair going, I HAD to think of only the negatives. I could have not kept my affair going if I painted my H to be so wonderful in my eyes. I am not saying that you have to accept the things your H has done to hurt you, but sometime let him know, "hey, when you did this to me, I felt really really hurt." Now may not be the right time to tell him while you're both feeling resentful. Write things down in a journal that you can share with your H at a later date when you're both feeling more secure with eachother. If you tell your H all the things he's done wrong in your marriage, he is just going to feel defeated. Your H and you could probably benefit from better ways of communicating. Try to stay away from 'knockdown dragouts.' You are both hurt right now and you have both hurt eachother. Now is the time to come together and try to heal together. Be the kind of person to your H that you would want him to be to you. Don't doubt what you're each capable of. If you think your H can't communicate right now, don't think it will always be that way. If you think that you can't share your deepest feelings with your H, don't think it will always be that way. You are more than that. If you're not getting the kind of response you want from your H, it is YOUR job to communicate what you want to your H.

MrContractor cannot make you happy. Only YOU can make you happy. MrC sounds wonderful to you right now. This was taken out of a Psychology Today article about emotional infidelity: "...the illicit partner is always partly a fantasy, inevitably seen as wittier, warmer and sexier than the spouse." I thought the same thing of OM during my affair. You say, "OM and I have the same sense of humor, he is very funny, witty and always making me laugh. I probably shouldn't go on about this because I know some reading this are steaming mad right now." There is no reason for us to be steaming mad, as Former Wayward Spouses (and I'm sure many Betrayed Spouses see it), it is fog talk. I actually said the exact things about my OM during my affair.

Fast forward 6 months and my H and I are best friends again. I can tell him anything and he listens to me and accepts me for who I am. We have so much fun together and we can talk about anything.

You are caught up in the fog so much still....I don't know what to say other then just keep up the NC, don't give in to it or you'll go right back to the beginning.

As long as you're still in the fog, you will compare your H with OM, which is not fair. The reason you had your affair is not because of how you have been treated by your H over the years. You had the option to get out of your M, but you chose to stay. YOU also chose your affair, regardless of what your H did. It will take a lot of time and repair work. If you are willing to put in the effort, you will be in a better place. Even if you don't want to keep your marriage, you won't ever be satisfied unless you know that you REALLY gave it a good go. Don't throw away all of your years together because it's easier. Work on your marriage because you have a lot to be proud of. You have 2 wonderful kids that are proof that there was once true love between you and H.

I am sure that you won't believe a whole lot that I say and will continue to think that your relationship with MrC is so unique and that we just don't understand it. We do understand. Begin with open communication with H, avoid disrespectful judgements and selfish demands. Try not to throw things at your H, he may be overwhelmed at this point. Read Dr. Harley's articles regarding overcoming infidelity with an open mind.

Also, make sure you and H can have some fun time together in an atmosphere where you can both be relaxed and not feel the pressure of everyday life (crying kids, bills, laundry, etc.) Go bowling, go water rafting, roller skating, kite flying, exercise together, whatever it is that you will both enjoy. It's just as important right now to try and have some fun together and soon enough you'll start laughing together and connecting again. Try not to wear yourselves out with all of the information, take things slow and allow eachother the freedom to feel safe again. Dr. Harley says, "Don't be the source of your partners unhappiness."

I think one of the biggest obstacles you may be facing right now is, "Why work on my marriage?" You probably can't visualize any positives right now with your marriage. I know this because I can remember it. All you really need to commit to is turning over every stone before choosing to stay in or leave your marriage. I went thru many periods of ambivalence. My H and I went back and forth about separating and divorcing. His reasons because he was so hurt and didn't think he could ever forgive me. My reasons were that I didn't know if I wanted to work on my M. This is the way I worked thru my ambivalence each time. I told myself that I did not have to make my decision today. I told myself that I CANNOT say for absolute certainty that I want to leave my marriage right now. Each time I would work thru it in my head by saying, "if I leave now and realize later that I made a terrible decision, I know that I could not reverse it. But I don't have to make that decision right now. I can make that decision at any time down the road once I feel better about myself and about the effort I have put into working on my M." I can even make that decision now if I want to leave my M. But I couldn't reverse it if I got out early on. Does that make any sense? You have to own your decisions and take responsibiltity for the problems in your M because it does take 2 to tango.

Not sure if you've seen this, but the following link was helpful to me. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=0#2785370

Callie....

I have written ALL those things that you write about. It is eerie. I have written "my story" about my married life and how it got to this point. I would be happy to share it with you by email if you would like. The parallels are astounding. Unfortunately, I don’t yet have a resolution, but we are making our way somewhere. Here are some thoughts though…..

I have dealt with many of those same disappointments. The internal struggle with what is right to do about the marriage. Is the relationship viable at all? How can I continue carrying the load and trying to make the family "picture" perfect? How can I keep the family together when the marriage is killing me? Isn’t all this dysfunction harming the kids, too? I have decided, for myself, that I cannot pretend anymore. My health and emotional well-being are in an unhealthy state. I am unable to be the mother I want to be. I am now FORCED to either change/repair the marriage or let it go, because I cannot continue on this way. The weight had become unbearable. I took all these questions and issues to a counselor earlier this year. He helped me sort through some important things. (What I still find amazing is that I was going to individual counseling and my H didn’t even get the fact that he needs it at least as much as me!!) Sigh……

My counselor helped me unbury my hurts, resentments, and disappointments in the marriage. It was necessary because I was withdrawing from things in my life. My friends, my kids, activities I had normally enjoyed, church work. I was expending my energy trying to heal my pain. All of this I had buried because I had given up on my perception of what our marriage should be. He had me write these things down. He told me that before I could even BEGIN to open up myself to my H, I would have to deal with the hurt and anger. He showed me how I had taken on roles within in the family that I believed should’ve been shared. I had lost trust in my H after the endless broken promises. I had lost trust in the marital relationship.

You will also find this amazing. I have twins, too! They are turning 13 this week. I had a 22 month old when we had the twins. The depression and anxiety issues had been always present with my H, but I didn’t realize the severity until the stress of the babies. Then things began to show up quickly and decline quickly. Over the next 13 years the patterns repeated themselves over and over.

We've had the issues of inability to communicate. I would have to practically beg for him to sit down and discuss a problem or issue. He would for a few minutes, then get up saying he can't sit any longer. Trying to connect, trying to be intimate. After several years of this I stopped trying. The spending habits...awful. I feel like a mother doling out cash because the credit cards and ATM cards are abused. I went to doctor apptmts with him to no avail. After a while he didn't want me involved in "his" illness. I urged him time and again to ask his Dr about his lack of interest in sex. He never would (almost everyone knows that anti-d’s affect sex drive). The bedroom intimacy ended several years go. Like you, I researched and read books on the health issues, our relationship...anything that would help. I have often summarized it by saying that he did not “participate” in our life. He was there, but not involved in any aspect. Not thinking, planning, communicating. His goal was to get through the day. Child care, school for the kids, their activities, vacations, mortgages, and building two homes fell on me. There were times I dreaded the weekends because of his constantly negative, irritable demeanor.

I am the first to admit that I enabled the situation to continue for so long. The family became co-dependents. This is unhealthy behavior for US. I have come to learn that even though he is ill, he was still making CHOICES. I feel like I fought for years for the marriage. As was stated in an earlier post, they have to be willing and ABLE to take responsibility for their illness and actions. It is CRUEL that they were deal these hands, but there is only so much you and I can do. We can lead them and enlighten them and support them, but at some point they have to take the reigns. What I realized last year, is that I was NOT helping him by doing everything in order for him to deal with his stresses. I THOUGHT I was doing the RIGHT thing by making his life easier by taking care of the house, the kids, the social plans, the vacations, the finances.....all I did was ALLOW him to continue to operate in the way he was. Now, like you, I am drained. In light of all this 1 to 2 years ago, I made numerous attempts to reach my H and address our problems. I continued to be pushed aside because he was “too busy” that week with work, or “I can’t deal with that right now”. As my counselor stated, I am numb to him. I have no feelings towards him as my husband. I do not love him as a wife should love a husband. I do feel empathy for him, and it is painful to watch him constantly struggle through life, but he has to now help himself. My latest disappointment is that he had a counselor a few weeks ago and he stopped going. He told MY counselor in May that his highest priority was to get himself another counselor. It is now mid-July…….

Like you, my H dearly loves our children, and they him. He is a great dad, not a great parent, but a great dad. I wanted to be married for life.

Callie…..all I’ve said here applies to you and your situation, BUT, on this thread and on this site, as was pointed out, the subject is infidelity. You will get much advice and support, but lots of it will be in dealing with your affair. You cannot begin to ascertain the salvageability of your marriage with feelings of love for another man. And I know exactly how you feel when you’re told to start putting the energy back to your H. Right now you feel like you can’t. In my thread last year, even AFTER withdrawal, I said repeatedly that I could not “make the jump” back to my H. I was told over and over how the feelings would come back for him. For ME, they did not because of all these deep-rooted issues. That is when I realized that I needed more help than an infidelity-based forum. I know you have had NC for months. I know you’re trying. I know you see that another man could be a better match for you. BUT, you have to deal with your marriage first. For YOU,and your H, and your kids. You must discern about your marriage IRRESPECTIVE of another man. As much as I know your pain, I know this to be true. You must not end your marriage based on this other person. End the marriage because it is not salvageable, but not for another man. OR…work on the marriage and fix it.

My intent here was not to talk about me & my problems, but rather to let you know I understand. I have many friends and family and support people, but NO ONE can quite understand what it has been like all these years. Maybe we can help each other.

By the way, still seeking, Katie mae, and kari jean, I found your posts quite helpful and supportive.

I would love to hear from someone that has overcome the kinds of issues Callie and I are facing. Is there anyone out there that successfully put their marriage back together?

Thank you...

Cards, you write from the heart. It often hurts to read about the pain, but it also helps us realize that if others can cope, we can cope.

Callie, You haven't said much about "faith" in your life. I hope you don't mind if I pray for you.

For some reason I thought (when I first read) that you were a SAHM. I can't imagine the energy it must take to do all that you have been doing for pretty much your whole married life.

It's difficult to write to you and ask you to do even more, and hold on even longer. It's not fair, we realize that. The other options don't have much promise though - if happiness is what you are looking for.

I don't know what you do during those times when it's especially bad, and you say to yourself "I just can't do this any more." When you are there - when it seems nothing will ever work - at least know people care about you.

What is your support system like? Do you have friends and/or family close to talk to, and get help from when you need baby sitters? Do you get time for just the two of you?

SS

BSCDC - Thanks again for your response. Yes, there are good things about my husband. If there weren't I would have surely left. I know that he loves our kids and I more than anything else in the world. I really can't say much more because right now for every positive that I say about him I accompany it with a negative qualifier. IE: He loves me more than anything, but yet has hurt me the most. It was sad, our 11 year anniversary was 3 weeks ago and I went to 2 stores looking for cards. I couldn't find anything that I would give to him and mean. I ended up writing a letter. I suppose I sound like a really hateful person in my posts, I'm really not.

The thing is since EA started with OM I've looked at my marriage and my life really hard. I know he's done this stuff to me, but I think because H won't talk about things and resolve them I try to sweep them under the rug too. It's too painful to deal with -what he's done and then not even respecting me enough to be truthful enough to resolve it. It's all coming to a head for me right now, like someone took the lid off of a volcano. One thing that he and I both talked about last night was that if we can get through this mess - if we can come through on the otherside and find a connection, we will probably be married for the rest of our lives. I know he is trying to save our marriage, in his own way he is.

I will hold on longer, I will continue to try. H made a few calls today to a local support group and is trying to get some referrals to BPD psychiatrists. That is a start - HE did it himself, that is a big step for him. BTW, I like what you said about "I don't have to make a decision today". Sometimes I just want peace in my life. I am in turmoil every day, sometimes I feel like I should just hurry up and make a decision. I will remember your quote - thanks.


Cardsonly - wow, wow, wow. This is EXACTLY how I feel. I would love to keep in touch with you privately. I would also love to read your original post. Is there a way to email through these boards, I don't know if it would be a good idea to post my email here?

Still seeking - You know, through it all I know that I will get through this. Wherever I end up is where I was meant to be. I pray for guidance in making the right decisions. I will never turn down prayer, thanks for your kind words yet again.

I do work some, Iwas a consultant before I became a SAHM. I still do a minimal amount of consulting on the side, which is what takes me away right now. It couldn't have come at a better time, I'm glad to get out of the house for a while.

As far as support - I have an awesome family. THey know NOTHING about any of this (with the exception of my sis). They have no idea what H has done to me or about my EA or OM. Sad I know, the 2 counselors that I've seen are almost insistant that I tell my parents. I've got good friends too who also know nothing.

Here's why. From the outside looking in H and I have everything. We just built a very nice home, two great kids, great jobs. The thing is at this point if my parents or friends found out I think they would probably hate H and would think I should leave. They will be disappointed in me for EA, they will be disappointed in me that I stayed with H after all he's done to me. If they find out all of this stuff and hate H and I stay, well I don't want to deal with that friction, turmoil. (Hate is a strong word, they wouldn't hate him, but I know they wouldn't want someone treating their daughter like that). I guess somewhere along the line I always thought he is who I chose to build a life with, it's up to me to stick it out.

As far as the time H and I spend together -- When I found out about the $40k debt that my H secretly had - he started working massive amounts of hours to pay it off. I have realized that THIS was a huge turning point in our marriage. We had 2 brand new babies, were getting ready to build a house we were on our way to the american dream. The mega hours took him away from home and left me to be the one to keep the house, kids together, he basically did NOTHING but come home, eat and sleep.

Once that debt was paid off we were very used to not spending time together. He got heavily involved in cards (online and live poker games) I threw myself into painting (I am a painter as well when I have time). We didn't want to spend time together, we didn't do anything together on weekends or ever really. I became very isolated and withdrawn from society (which is very unlike me) after being a SAHM for 3 years, I just didn't get out much - friends kids are all older and I just pretty much stayed home all of the time. Really the only adult communication that I had came from H. He does NOT communicate, could care less about discussing his or my day, if he did it would be about 10-15 words on the subject. The only thing that we would EVER do together is watch movies. I think because this is something that we could do "together" but not have to be "together". The following year we started house, here is where the OM comes in.

Since I found out about the $40k we have NEVER really spent time together. I'll bet we've went out maybe 8x just us in the last year and a half. The thing is I don't WANT to spend time with him. I would rather be by myself with the kids or just by myself. If we do spend time together, it's watching a movie. H thinks just spending the night sitting out on our brand new patio by a fire with maybe a glass of wine is a waste. He would be completely miserable if he had to do that. He would do it, but he would not be happy about it because it would involving talking. Even if it was just talking about nothing (nothing deep). I know that this is our biggest problem - communication. He does not have the skills and is intimidated by mine. That coupled with the fact that he's afraid he has to be accountable. I have no idea how to change that.

Whew, what a mouthful today! You know one thing that I KNOW is that just "talking" about it here, just typing out my feeling helps. For months I've kept it all inside all jumbled up. I'm sure I seem disorganized in my posts, but internally my thoughts are starting to align. For that I am grateful. I am even more grateful for all of the help and insight (good and bad) that this board has given me. I feel like I've come farther in the last few days since finding this board than I have with 2 marriage counselors. Thanks from the bottom of my heart

I’ve been there and done that but you're not hearing it. It seems to me that the issue you are both facing is not taking responsibility for your lack of happiness and satisfaction in your marriage., ie. blaming H for just about everything. Your H isn’t responsible for your happiness. Only you are. Your H isn’t responsible for your misery or your affair either. Only you are and until you accept that, you will remain unhappy in your M.

I am betting that the message here is not going to reach you, but I am hoping that the message will benefit some of the Betrayed Spouses here, who might be wondering if their WS can ever possibly come around to showing love towards them, despite the rotten blame that they are forced to endure on top of the betrayal itself. This board has really helped H and I out. I honestly thank the BS on this board for sharing their stories and helping ME see the reality of it all. It really helped me get thru the foggy thinking.

I suppose I sound like a really hateful person in my posts, I'm really not.

You sound like someone who needs a change in their life. I think many of us wake up in the morning (at sometime in our lives) and wonder how to get out of the hole we are in.

It's not being down that's bad, it's staying down. I would guess that your feelings are way different than the image you project (in public). It bothers you to be where you are.

The thing is since EA started with OM I've looked at my marriage and my life really hard. I know he's done this stuff to me, but I think because H won't talk about things and resolve them I try to sweep them under the rug too.

You were trying to keep the peace, make things work, be a good wife. I am sure you didn't know it would end up like this. Again - it's where you go from here.


It's too painful to deal with -what he's done and then not even respecting me enough to be truthful enough to resolve it. It's all coming to a head for me right now, like someone took the lid off of a volcano. One thing that he and I both talked about last night was that if we can get through this mess - if we can come through on the otherside and find a connection, we will probably be married for the rest of our lives. I know he is trying to save our marriage, in his own way he is.

I am not the best help for his illness - but the others who have posted have given priceless information. If he does want to save things, and you can give him tools, perhaps things really can change. I won't spend much time on this part - you are getting good information from some real experts.


You know, through it all I know that I will get through this. Wherever I end up is where I was meant to be.

I usually cringe when I read a "meant to be" statement. It scares me. I think I know what you mean - but that statement has been used so often to explain why it's OK to make really bad decisions.
I don't think you are using it that way - as I say, I think I know what you mean.

I pray for guidance in making the right decisions. I will never turn down prayer, thanks for your kind words yet again.

Some of my best help has come during prayer. May you find the help you seek.

I do work some, Iwas a consultant before I became a SAHM. I still do a minimal amount of consulting on the side, which is what takes me away right now. It couldn't have come at a better time, I'm glad to get out of the house for a while.

OK, it makes sense now. I understand about getting out and keepig your mind busy. I bet it helps a lot some days.

As far as support - I have an awesome family. THey know NOTHING about any of this (with the exception of my sis).
There is direct support, where people know, and extend direct support by talking to you about it. Then, indirect support - where you spend time with them and unwind. At least you can spend time with them when you need it.


They have no idea what H has done to me or about my EA or OM. Sad I know, the 2 counselors that I've seen are almost insistant that I tell my parents. I've got good friends too who also know nothing.

It is sad you feel no direct support from them. You must be a pretty private person in a lot of ways. This is not a judgement, I am commenting on what I think I see. It's sometimes useful for us to understand how others see us.
Do you prefer small gatherings with close friends to huge impersonal events?
I am looking for what brought the two of you together. If your H is quiet, he may have thought you were a kindred spirit.
How DID you meet, and what brought you together? I'll tie this together at the bottom.


From the outside looking in H and I have everything. We just built a very nice home, two great kids, great jobs.

We look like a perfect couple, except we're not.
Sounds like many of us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

SS sits back in his chair. Spends a lot of time thinking about this parental relationship. A question comes -
If it was one of your children, would you want them to confide in you? These twins that you love.......... would you help them if they came to you, or judge them?

I don't know your parents. It may be that you have made the right choice. Perhaps they are not very approachable. I wish you had a parental shoulder to lean on though.


I guess somewhere along the line I always thought he is who I chose to build a life with, it's up to me to stick it out.

What attracted you to him? How did you communicate early on, compared to now?
You must have been excited, in love, and happy to spend time with him. What kinds of things did you do?

............ Really the only adult communication that I had came from H. He does NOT communicate, could care less about discussing his or my day, if he did it would be about 10-15 words on the subject. The only thing that we would EVER do together is watch movies.

How did you get from newly weds to where you are now?
I mean, at one time you must have adored him. Granted, it was before you knew his bad side. However, those good times must have existed.

The thing is I don't WANT to spend time with him. I would rather be by myself with the kids or just by myself.

If you have read Dr Harleys 4 rules for a successful marriage, you know my concern.
Four rules for a successful marriage

I agree that there are a lot of things that need to happen before you can have the marriage you want (meaning he needs treatment) but you need a starting place for your relationship too. Look at the rule of time.

My thinking is that perhaps you can go back to some of the things you enjoyed while you were young, and in love, and start again. I also recommend you take the The Recreational Enjoyment Inventory and see if you can find some common ground for spending time together. Knowing your feelings about it at this point in time, perhaps plays, concerts, or things where you both have a good time, but don't have to talk MOST OF THE TIME.
Take a look - The Recreational Enjoyment Inventory



If we do spend time together, it's watching a movie. H thinks just spending the night sitting out on our brand new patio by a fire with maybe a glass of wine is a waste.
And of course you dream of sitting by the fire with someone.........
Some of your writing communicates a great deal. I sense the sadness and pain behind some of the words.

He would be completely miserable if he had to do that. He would do it, but he would not be happy about it because it would involving talking. Even if it was just talking about nothing (nothing deep).

Look and see if there are things both of you would enjoy. You have to start somewhere. Ask him to add to the list if he has other things he would enjoy. See what you can do with it.

I know that this is our biggest problem - communication. He does not have the skills and is intimidated by mine. That coupled with the fact that he's afraid he has to be accountable. I have no idea how to change that.

One of the good things about counseling from this site, is that The Harleys are good at looking at win/win ways to overcome these types of troubles.
- If you find things on the list that both of you would enjoy, it would do you both good to go out and have a little fun.

I'm sure I seem disorganized in my posts, but internally my thoughts are starting to align.

It has been good to see you regain some hope. I really want this to work for you. We don't know what tomorrow will bring, but I think your happiness lies along this path. Lets see where it takes you.

I hope this isn't too long. I don't have time to do a good proof read. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
SS