|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,892
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,892 |
LA,
No, I have always known the why's, her anger was a topic of debate for all of our pre and married life. She was diagnosed as BPD and Bipolar. I always knew her A was not about me.
My problem is in answering why I completely and totally pushed aside her demonstrable volatility and went forward with an M that I had great misgivings about.
I can't do anything to help her, I tried mightily for almost 8 years. I hope one day to solve the riddle on why I could so love such a deeply flawed human being.
Divorced: "Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle
You believe easily what you hope for ernestly
Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,929
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,929 |
Hi Cy,
Never posted to you before [I think} but had to chime in...
DFW told me that it was definitely about his anger & resentment...thing is, he rarely showed his anger throughout our 10+ year marriage.
He assumed I had cheated on him...never talked of his suspicions, never asked me...nothing. Major CA & PA.
Yes, he stated that part of his A was to "get back at me" for being depressed.
It's hard to swallow when the BS never really sees the anger and resentment that boils just under the surface of WS. I ws always told I was the love of his life, his heaven on earth, yada yada yada...
Now that I look back I can pinpoint many P.A. tactics that he used to "get back at me" but I guess he felt he needed to take it to the next level and REALLY get me.
Me (RBW) 6w5
DFW (RWH) 3w2
Established 1/93
Rebuilding since 9/03
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,892
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,892 |
Fraggles,
Thanks for bringing up another point, constant inferences regarding me having an A. I was always 100% transparent, she went through my wallet, cell phone and computer on an almost daily basis.
LA, were suspicions of your spouse having an A part of your scenario?
Divorced: "Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle
You believe easily what you hope for ernestly
Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,929
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,929 |
There were good reasons for him to assume I was having a A. I traveled a lot for a period of a year or so to see a band I really liked - "roadtripping" if you will - and he came with me twice. This was when I WAS depressed; mom was dying, kids were demanding, H was passive agressive [in retrospect]
BUT he never once asked me, always supported my trips "sure, honey GO! Get away for a bit!" Most trips were 24 - 36 hours. [this was 3-4 yrs. pre-A, BTW]
See, Cy, I had the UTMOST trust in my husband. and so I assumed he had the UTMOST TRUST in me. Now i find that for most of our M up until the A, he never trusted me. That is what I am battling with now. I am confident he is not screwing around on me now, what I struggle with is his HONESTY in how he feels about me, about us and about our M. He lied about that for so long.
We have reconciled, we are recovering - both personally & maritally - but I struggle with this [esp. now for some good forsaken reason almost 3 yrs post Dday] and your post struck a chord.
Me (RBW) 6w5
DFW (RWH) 3w2
Established 1/93
Rebuilding since 9/03
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 764
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 764 |
My FWW absolutely used anger for her A. Then took the anger all the way to D court. She was angry because I was never around (I was not responding to many of her EN's but the same could be said of her). My separate life was really started after her PA. She was angry because I did not care, I did not love her, and I had many of my own affairs (absolutely untrue).
What I have learned is that she is narcicistic in the 3rd degree yet the most insecure being I have ever met. An absolutely stunning woman she felt "ugly or not attractive" and her PA was with some short, fat, middle agaed predator who was rich, consumated her PA in "sin city"....it was pathetic!! Plus due to issues dragged out from her family experiences she was quite untrusting of anyone else. I also notice many passive aggressive behaviors....
I remain upset and angry that this woman, "anyone's best friend" who would and has never "betrayed" anyone committed the ultimate betrayal against me! Her worst punishment after the divorce was that with much work on myself I became OK and could be happy...something she admitted never was achieved until we reconciled....
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 108
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 108 |
My H was very passive agressive throught our first years together, and he said his affair started because he THOUGHT I had been having an affair and he was just plain mad at me for a lot of stuff. He also said one of the reasons he did it was because he thought he would never get caught. Even though he was passive agressive, he was very controling - but he could not confront anything head-on. This had a lot to do with the way he was raised. In his family, you do not openly confront anything. I saw this in his family way before I saw it in him. They would never criticized directly, but would veil criticism so that it could be taken more than one way if this makes sense - that way if you called them on anything, they would play dumb. This is such a dishonest way to live and have relationships. My H denied that this was the way he operated for about a year - it is dysfuntional to say the least. It was learned behavior, though. I think a lot of affairs are passive aggressive reactions to percieved wrongs.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 934
Member
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 934 |
On my FWW meeting the FOM she says he asked, “so what’s your story?”.
She responded, “I’m mad at my husband”.
So yes, she was acting out of anger. Classic PA yes?
Plank.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,970
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,970 |
Cymanca,
Yes, I did accuse my H of having affairs...about once every six months for 15 years. However, this wasn't only projection...he slept with my best friend before we were married; he had an EA...he is an SA...
It was projection on my part...and it was his withdrawal into fantasy, too. One triggered the other, triggered the other...reactive relationship. Wasn't about me not being enough, nor him not being enough...though we each felt like it...it was about choices...
I do believe affairs are passive-aggressive acts. I do. I believed I could MAKE my H stop withdrawing...like controlling the weather...
Cymanca...could you please consider you loved your STBXW for who she was and not what she did? If you can separate that enough, then you can see she is not a flawed being...God doesn't make junk...and didn't make an exception in your STBXW's case...
There is a reason, and it is about her.
If we make our lives about choosing the right person instead of being a good partner, then we lock ourselves into the same pattern, don't we? Because we took ourselves out of the equation?
LA
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 596
Member
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 596 |
Loving Anyway thank you
My own H has had a few too many occassions of seeking EXTERNAL happiness, he never saw himself as being responsible from within to feel happy, it was always objects (& still is to a point) & other people who he thought would make him feel good & happy about himself - possessions & others.
The hollowness left when all that is removed frightened him. It frightened him to be responsible for himself. To believe in himself as being lovable for who he is, not what he has or what others think of him.
This has been a turning point, when he could say clearly it had nothing to do with anyone else, they all could have been any person at the time, it was all about how he felt about himself & how he felt others thought of him. (ah ha).
On the anger my H was a captain of justification & entitlement, & that is precisely how he lived until he had to look inside himself for happiness.
btw, I was suspected of numerous encounters, without cause, though with ample opportunity. That was not about me, that was entirely about his own insecurities. His doubts that anyone would want to remain faithful to him.
H did not use anger as the reason for his mistakes, he used anger inappropriately to control an out of control situation. Laughable at the immaturity of some statements as if warranted "You told me to F off, so I did" can you see the 3year old waiting for a hug after throwing their cake away in a tantrum? That is about power, loss of self control & manipulation to shift responsiblity to the injured party. Another oh that's what you meant "It's not that I don't trust you Honey, it's the guys that you might meet, I know how men are around women like you" projection city's Mayor. Accussations of jealousy & controlling, even paranoia were projected <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I reminded myself uhuh not me Babe, that'd be a label that could be applied to your forehead at any time during his delussional escape from himself.
To get back to your orig Q, omg what I have heard & witnessed over the years, would burn a hole in anyone's heart. Pure indulgent selfish B behaviour that knew was doing wrong & had to find a person to blame for his behaviour as blaming himself for his own actions would only deepen his sense of worthlessness & false pride.
I think it's all about ability to cope with ones own emotions & selfworth & self value as adults, it is something learned as children.
It is definitely worth investing in.
As adults when we encounter understanding we can choose to educate & perhaps enhance or redefine ourselves as persons we do believe in & value in entirety, knowing we are worthwhile individuals in our own right without any add ons such as possessions or popularity.
We do not need those things to feel good about ourselves, we inherently know we are good people & thus can enjoy ourselves, and the benefits of possessions & companionship without being reliant on them for our sense of worthiness.
Anger in my opinion is a healthy emotion that is often abused. I think Stillwed or PussyWillow told me to think of it as an "Honourable Sentry, guarding one's welfare, that reacted when it felt threatened".
To better love my own husband I choose a very difficult task though he was a nasty walking bludgeoner of my feelings at the time (& I of his at times too), by accepting anger as an end result of a belief for a need to guard ones self. I had to look very hard to understand the REAL cause of the anger within my husband.
I knew my anger stemmed from hurt & injustice of all that goes with being betrayed & neglected, deeper I feared abondonment (which I did not know I could & would survive), & the most basic root I was mometarily paralysed by the unregulated anxiety (due to being betrayed) that I was a faulty human, I know that is not true, at the time of my intense anger I did feel like a weakling battling a Giant, I momentarily felt & temperarily believed I was unlovable & unworthy (a very extreme shift from my normally motivated happy core), the damage of the words & actions that my husband chose wore me down to complete self doubt in nearly every facet of my life, I did not trust my own judgement.
Thus when I did wake up & recall that I am indeed worthy of love & in fact a very worthwhile & capable person I grieved, I cried for nearly 18months. From my perspective I felt our 20years was a lie. I accepted fully my reality, BUT I denied my husband his at the time. For the next 12 months it varied for me, from massive hurt, to simply uncomfortable to outright anger. We had deep loving connectness & absolute polar destruction during that period, I allowed the intensity of my emotions overwhelm me. I responded, reacted & made decisions at the time based entirely on feelings.
As I recognised my spiralling in clearer calm moments. I questioned why should my husband not be allowed the extremes I felt too, he surely must feel his own too. Yeah the direct answer is he did it to himself, blah, blah, blah. The answers came out slowly because it is excrutiatingly painful to admit that due to your own selfishness, your lack of self worth that not only did you fk up your own life, but the lives of those you promised to care for, those you knew you loved & you knew at core though felt it couldn't be real because you did not love yourself that that person who you were most injurious to loved you freely for who you are, not for what you could or could not do for them.
My H did not love himself. Though arrogant & cocksure to the outside world, he was a crumbling, frightened man inside, afraid of rejection, afraid of being really loved, really known, yet all the time he was fully loved & accepted warts & all by me, he had not accepted himself. That is where his anger came from.
It was a friend's Husband who is overcoming an addiction that actually made the light bulbs in our house work! He said "Ktulu you are not a b1tc4, Mr Ktulu is pushing you act like one so he can feel better about himself for what he is doing to you".
In more recent convo's without calm honesty H has said this over & over again in a myriad of ways. His root cause was that he himself did not believe in himself, did not believe he was worthy of real honest love. H adds he acted like a b4zturd purposefully to insite rejection the exact opposit of what he deeply craved. In doing what he did he was rejecting himself completely & very angry with himself, all the time.
Thank God for humanity, for growth & clarity. Thank God for real love.
Hugs
Kt
Actions do NOT make the person. Behaviour is seperate from the person. We are not defined by what we do.
We are WHO we are, whole & complete, lovable individuals.
Something I say to our children: I love you when your sad, I love you when your happy, I love you when your artistic, I love you when your messy, I love you when your clean, I love you when your angry, I love you when your calm, I love you when your hurting, I do not like you hurting others, I love you anyway I love you when your doing wrong I love you when your doing good I love you when you are creating I love you when your smashing things I do not like when you to smash things I love you anyway I love you when your scared, I love you when your confident, I love you when you when you fail, I love you when you succeed, Whereever you go or whatever you do, every second of your life You are loved & always will be, you are perfect for you.
|
|
|
0 members (),
150
guests, and
93
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,622
Posts2,323,491
Members71,964
|
Most Online3,185 Jan 27th, 2020
|
|
|
|