Here's my dilemma:

Right now we're in the very first painful, initial stages of recovery. My emotional wounds are still raw and bleeding.

OW was someone he was seeing all through our engagement. Since he and I had a long-distance relationship ourselves, I didn't find out about her until after we were married (although in retrospect there were some clues). He was even with her the night before we married, I had called him on his cell to discuss those important last-minute nuptial details and he talked to me so coldly and impersonally (like a total stranger) that I was really hurt and puzzled. Now of course I realize (and he admits) they were together at the time and he was pretending I was a business associate (his own fiancée!) so she wouldn't know it was me.

I told him after I found out the truth, that if I had known any of this was going on, I wouldn't have married him. Yep, I would have stood him up at the altar without hesitation. He claims this comment of mine devastated him emotionally. How does he think I feel? Sometimes the self-centeredness of cheaters just astounds me.

So now we've been married almost 5 months and hardly a day goes by that I don't think of all this and/or cry, rage, grieve, etc. A recent discovery that he still carries around a memento she gave him (ironically, a religious icon) constantly in his wallet led to another confrontation this week. He claims he forgot it was there. I find this hard to believe and feel I can trust nothing he says or does anymore because there were so many lies before and after we wed.

Although all contact seems to be broken off now, and OW is in another country, at times I am so filled with such rage I can hardly reason with myself, let alone him. I said some brutal things this week that he said almost caused him to leave me, but he swears he wants to fight for our marriage. In this much as least he seems sincere. He is trying very hard to make amends now but I have zero trust.

We stay up hours and hours night after night just talking and trying to rectify and repair things. He has asked over and over what he can do and I only asked for one thing. I asked him to give me that religious medallion she gave him - the initial plan was that it was going back to her with a letter from me that I admit is quite harsh and blunt.

He was reluctant to give me the medallion, which just made me angrier since at the same time he was claiming it meant nothing to him. In my view, hanging onto this icon just confirms their involvement was an emotional affair and not just a simple physical thing as he'd claimed. After the fourth time I asked for it, he proposed that the medallion be pawned and the funds donated to charity instead. Maybe I'm too worked up about it now, but his proposal doesn't satisfy me.

So then he suggested that he would write her a NC letter and send back the jewelry, stating in no uncertain terms that it's over and what they did was wrong and he wants to stay with me and make this marriage work. He let me read it, it was worded bluntly and straightforward like that, and then he proposed we would go to the post office together and mail it so that I would know it was really done.

He has never seen this web site to my knowledge so I think his idea of a NC letter was just coincidence and the offer made in an attempt to pacify me and also to stop me from sending my own (far less civil) letter. I wasn't completely placated by his idea though, and told him so, and then he finally agreed I could include my own letter to the OW too, and he would read it or not whichever I wanted. Either way he promised he wouldn't edit anything in mine and that we would then seal and mail both letters in the envelope together. He also offered to cancel his cell phone because of my painful association with it and to assure she can never contact him again.

This all happened yesterday and I'm still undecided about how to proceed. As I said, I have zero trust left now anyway, and as I told him, what's to stop him from calling her and just telling her not to open or read the letter so that her precious feelings will be spared?

Of course, nobody took into account MY feelings when they were scr*wing around so I have no sympathy for the OW and I only HOPE my words will hurt her even a fraction of how her actions hurt me. I guess something in me needs the vindication from imagining her flinch, if even a little.

I need some external (calmer) opinions here: do you think I'm acting immaturely or irrationally in regards to sending the letter(s)? I understand why some may say a NC letter should come just from him alone, but part of me feels I am entitled to my say too, and that I have a right to tell this wh*re off and at least yank her out for 5 minutes from her smug, blissful little world where she is probably already plotting or starting to do the same thing to another couple. (He said they originally started out as just platonic friends, and she was indifferent towards him beyond friendship, but after he got engaged she seemed to take that as a challenge and deliberately set out to seduce him).

There are some words for women like that, we all know what they are, and believe me I used every one of them in this letter I wrote to her. It was also gratifying to get in the final zinger about returning her religious medallion, so that she can start practicing what she preaches.

So you be the judge...justified anger or childish behavior on my part?

Any advice welcome and greatly appreciated.

~Silverwraith

Well, it probably felt good to write such a letter, but I wouldn't suggest sending it. For several reasons, don't give her the benefit of seeing how she affected you, she doesn't deserve your attention. Second, it will have very little affect, especially if it is long and insulting.

I would re-write the letter several times over a period of 1-3 months, see how you feel then. If it is important to you at that time, send it. There isn't any time limit on when to send it. I wrote a letter to the OW after a year, re-wrote it over several months, put it aside and then came back to it after a few months. I realized that my words would mean nothing to her, she would use them to justify her own behavior in some twisted WS/OP way. I didn't want to encourage any more contact, whether from her to me or WH.

I have often wish I had sent a letter to her husband, I still think about that.

I would suggest that you expose to everyone you can, even her parents if she is single.

You two are sending the NC LETTER together. Married, you two have become one, IMO. So the letter that he is sending is also a letter from you. A letter from him is best, IMO.

After 3 full years in Recovery, I have finally come to the point of not thinking about her every day. I still think about the OW much too much.

In time, the pain will go away as the other poster has said. But this is a major trauma for you and you will need lots of time to heal.

The OW really doesnt't matter now. What you have before you is a life with your H..a future that you can build..time to work on building a foundation..a safety net around your precious, precious marriage to insure that this does not happen again...

Stay present with the GOODNESS..Keep away from the EVIL that she represents...

Thanks for your prompt responses...I appreciate it.

nabohio, are you suggesting I set aside only my letter for now and still let my husband send his NC letter?

And how do you expose someone in another country? I have a few addresses and names of some of her relatives, but I doubt most of them speak English. Still I suspect they are all staunch Catholics, so perhaps a little religious guilt might come in handy? *heh*

I just hate feeling so helpless, or being told I have to be "the better person" and grin and bear the pain forever - of course my brain logically understands I should behave calmly like an adult, but my heart is crushed and begs for vengeance.

Definitely send your H's NC Letter.

Thanks mimi1254...I think it's important too. Apparently so does he, he called me at work and asked if I wanted to meet down at the post office to send it out today...but after much thought I won't include my letter. Your words about not letting her evil poison our life really hit home.

I'd also like his cell phone to be disconnected before the NC letter goes out, just to absolutely guarantee that when she gets it if she tries to call him the number will be dead (any woman who doesn't care if a guy is engaged to someone else probably isn't going to respect his order to stay clear of his new marriage, either).

Hi SW,



I tell you, with ALL honesty, I'd have the marriage annuled. This man is not marriage material, he cheated on you before you even got married.... I'd be gone SO fast he wouldnt know what happened. I could not live my life knowing from day #1 that he was a cheater. This is the HONEYMOON period.... You are right, you cannot trust him.

AND - I'd take him to court if he didnt reimburse me for the wedding costs. I'm very serious.

It's one thing to try to rebuild a relationship when you've been together for decades and have kids, but you guys never had a real realtionship (one without the OW). It was a long distance relationship, and really, you DIDNT know his character. I am sorry, it doesnt make it hurt any less, but really, he'd be gone if it were me. I KNOW I could do better than that. I bet you do, to. He's treated you horribly. What a horrible way to enter a marriage.

Just my 2 cents - Dru

SW,

Yes, I meant send the NC letter w/o yours. This is very important to send, it is great that your WH called and spoke to you about it. While in theory, I thought much the same as Drucilla, it seems that the M starting off this way maybe be a lifetime of "I'm sorry, I'll never do it again's", however, only you can decide that. It is so soon after exposure, you don't have to decide now to make the M work, only decide today that you are working on it, day by day and see where that leads.

As far as exposure, difficult in your sitch, do they work for the same company? If so, you could expose to their employer. If not, and English isn't a second language to her parents, you may be stuck. You could get a letter translated, perhaps it is worth thinking about.

Unfortunately the OW is self-employed, works from home, so there is no way to expose her to an employer and no consequences there for her.

Her nationality is not a common one and I'm not sure I could even find a translator, or that it would be worth the time or effort. That was part of the reason too I hesitated to send my own letter, I figured many if not most of the great zingers I came up with would probably go over the head of someone whose native language is not English. But it's amusing to think of her having to take the letter to a friend or someone in her family to get it translated for her.

Drucilla, believe me, I was totally of that mindset too for almost a week. Absolutely resolved this marriage was over before it began. If my WH was not genuinely remorseful and demonstrating daily actions to that effect, I would not hesitate at all to proceed with legal action.

As nabohio suggested, for now I think I'll take it one day at a time.

I am sorry for your sitch...many many years after I married ...eight to be exact and during my separation, I learned that the night before my wedding, my xh hired two girls (that swing both ways apparently) to go up to his suite at the hotel and a few of the groomsmen were there...they all ended up leaving with nothing but my fiancee (now xh) and the two stripper girls.

what do I know now? I WOULD HAVE CALLED OFF THE WEDDING...NADA..NOTHING...HAD I FOUND OUT WHEN YOU FOUND OUT? I WOULD END IT..THE MARRIAGE THAT IS...FOR IT IS A MARRIAGE THAT NEVER WAS.

I am sorry...but there hasn't been any faithfulness nor keeping to any "vow" at all.

what my dear are you choosing to honor? I ask you that honestly. IF there is no vow that's been kept, then what is tying you to this man?

I say call the woman, let her know...odds are, your WH is spewing lies to you still...after all, he had both of you on the side for the last few years...only legalizing in formality sense the wedding wtih you...he didn't go to NC after apparently.

a lifetime of woes shall you have if you continue. I am so sorry. I don't want those to divorce...but I have walked this path with a man who is incapable of sorry. Incapable of change. and your sitch is different now. you're young...WITHOUT KIDS...and have the chance to learn MB principles and use them ON A MAN WORTHY OF KEEPING A VOW..AND WORTHY OF YOU AND YOUR PRECIOUS LOVE.

cut bait dear.

I would not send the letter...I'd call her and see what she says...many times I found out different truths from talking to his ow. he was lying to both of us apparently. but do not let her know you're hurting...again, no giving an OW any sick pleasures of YOUR being in grief...make HER squirm.

be strong. find out the truth. and if you really think you are able to NOT spend the rest of your life looking behind your back wtih this man, which I could NOT do with my now xh, then have him send the NC letter.

I just think too much damage has been done.

Mimi, honey, I love ya and you know it. But how in the hades can as you say, "two become one" when he was screwing the OW the night before their wedding and lying? I don't see it. No piece of paper or ceremony or white dress and tux or reception can make that kind of liar and situation good.

SW...during engagement and early years, couples are usually their happiest...looking forward to a life together and making new memories. What my xh did was unforgiveable...however I have a precious child as a result of his being a sperm donor imho. And I love my ds more than anybody in the whole world...would give my life for him.

but your H? What is there that keeps you? I can understand you wanting to make this work, but when you are ABLE TO PULL AWAY FROM THE RAW EMOTIONS AND LOOK AT THIS SITCH OBJECTIVELY, THEN WHAT DO YOU REALLY SEE?

I echo the other poster who said that your H is not marriage material. Not to you. and if the slimy OW gets her paws on him if you choose to toss him out, then she's not getting a man of marriage material either.

sad but true.

I had a girlfriend who went thru same thing. She was married eight mos. He was cheating and tried to flip their vehicle after d day...doing irrational and stupid stunts to try to get her to change her mind about calling the ow. Simeon divorced him. She is now happily remarried after spending one year finding herself after this mess happened. This was ten years ago now for her. She remarried three and a half years after her divorce and spent those three and a half years having the time of her life. No kids...great job...time for her to enjoy being her...alone and healthy.

as dr. phil says, "I'd rather be healthy and alone rather than sick with somebody else."

SW,

I am sorry for your pain. I understand that you love your H and you want things to work out. I understand that your H is remorseful and is trying, but in addition to that, he needs to improve his character and that takes a long time, if ever.

The fact that your H could have an A and be with the OW the night before your marriage shows a serious lack of character, integrity, honor and morals. Perhaps also a serious lack of conscience and empathy. Those are traits that he cannot grow in a matter of 5 months. The lack of those traits will cause you and your marriage more pain and heartache in the future.

If you really love him and want this to work, then I would get the annulment -- you can always remarry the right way once he's shown that he has the character traits needed to make a good husband. In the meantime, he would have a lot of work to do -- lots of counseling to get to the bottom of this and to fix it. If and when he proved himself, then you two could always be married again in the right way.

Please consider these things. As painful as it would be to end the marriage now and see how he reformed himself, it's a fraction of the pain that you would have when he hurts you again in the future. What's to stop that from happening if he hasn't addressed the root cause of all this that is inside of him? If he really loves you, he will do that work on himself, and prove to you that he is a better man and win you back.

Sorry if this is harsh -- I'm just trying to save you future pain. Wish you the best.

What are your feelings when you look at your wedding pictures?

joy? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
pain? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
connfusion? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
sorrow? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
anger? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />


..... what is the emotion you feel when looking at those photos?

.... now look at those photos carefully .... see if you can spot OW in ~any~ of the photos .....

??????? is she there ????????

No?

OK then .... the emotions you feel when you look at your wedding photos have nothing to do with OW. The emotions you feel are 100% about looking at the face of the man who was

willing
completely willing

to betray YOU
over
and
over
and
over

and then, a few hours later .... stand before witnesses and God, and vow his fidelity to you, his bride.

You are a victim of fraud.

fraud is the intent to decieve others with false claims

Your groom willingly faked fidelity on your wedding day ... the OW was not there ...

and any early regret he feels is the regret that he might be losing you .... not the regret that he has no evidence of personal integrity and honor

your husband's wedding vows are meaningless as they stand today

OW is insignificant when standing alongside the ~fact~ that your husband was willing to make fraudlent vows

if you accept this man
if you stay in this marriage
"as is"

in my opinion ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> you forfet your right to complain about OW

You are newly wed, in a marriage without children, and already stained by adultery and fraudlent from the get-go .... THIS is a very large [color:"red"] RED FLAG [/color] ... you are yolked to a man who is highly likely to betray you again.

why?

because he takes fraudulent vows and then repents when he is caught

so sorry

this must hurt like HECK

but the pain of remaining in this fraudlent marriage will be worse years ahead

it is a matter of character .... a lack of character on your husband's part

call your parents .... ask for their opinion & their help

Pep

silverwraith,
I will pose another point of view. It is possible to stay married to this man. It is possible that he will never betray you within the confines of marriage(meaning from 'I do' to the future)

Is it what you want?

Is this marriage to him what you want?

My situation is very similar in that my wife discovered I was having an affair a month before we got married. We proceeded to get married anyway, regardless of what would have been advised here(we came to MB after the wedding).

The best decisions probably were not made, but people do crazy things for love and life.

What do you want to do? You alone will be responsible for your choices going forward. Certainly, you have the right to play the "you cheated, even right before we got married, so I am out of here" card. You have every right to do that. But if you choose not to, then you accept your marriage as is going forward. Now, as is can seem to have really bad connotations to it, but does it?

I was not a serial cheater or a sex addict. Is your husband? explore and find out. I did. I have read up on sexual addition and the signs of it. in discussions with my wife, who also posts here, we determined that I am not a sexual addict. To be a serial cheater is easy enough to identify. multiple affairs. Is this the case with your husband? explore and find out. I did not have multiple affairs.

Do these things if you want to rule out risks in your marriage. minimizing risks is what you CAN do. Learn about the love bank and lovebusters.

I speak from a logical angle because that is who I am. Do this to get or get as close as possible to that.

If you love him and you want your marriage to him, then do these things. The decision is all yours. Of course he has done something as horrible as possible to you, but is cutting and running the best thing?

Maybe it is.

but then again... maybe it isn't

Calm down and realize this is your life. You will be the reaper of your garden... not anyone on this forum. If you take someones advice, they will not be affected in any way by it.

You will. For sure. And some folks will tell you what to do and it will be to run away as fast as you can. Maybe that sounds like the best option. Maybe that sounds like the only option. It isn't. It is an option... but there are others.

Does your husband post here? You should talk to him and see if he will. There are Former Waywards, like myself and some others, that might be able to help. Betrayed spouses here can also help and get a feel for the kind of person he is in how he talks and thinks.

You are not alone. You are not a freak because you married this man and because you are still married to this man. I know that you are hurting, confused, scared and angry. Probably many more emotions come to mind. Remember, his emotions won't just stop because he is the one who hurt you. You are the victim but you have to make decisions that you will be happy with from now on.

Pull control of your life out of his hands and take it back over. that doesn't mean leave him, unless that is what you choose. Whatever you want to do, choose it and do it.

I really would like to see him log on and post. People here could talk to him and help him along with advice and discussion of how he can best participate in building your marriage to be as strong as any out there.

If you have not gotten it, I would order Surviving an Affair, by Dr. Harley. It will be a good place to start. And, it will only cost you 20 or so dollars. Getting it and reading it does not lock you into any decision. Be informed and decide how you want to go forward.

I hope he signs up.

This is NOT THE SAME SITCH PATRIOT...you had a ONE MONTH AFFAIR...this guy has HAD THE AFFAIR WITH THE OW FOR YEARS...

YEARS!

Since they dated and got engaged...heckuva longer history my friend.

It is not an apples to apples sitch.

there has been NO FIDELITY in this relationship since there has been a committment.

Young couples newly married SHOULD NOT HAVE TO HAVE THIS MUCH HORROR AND DRAMA EARLY IN A MARRIAGE PERIOD.

I at least had (of course I did NOT know about the night before my wedding) a few good years outta my now defunct marriage...that I can think about when I reflect now and then.

This horror robs her of her wedding day happiness...sick stuff imho.

the man IS A FRAUD. period cut and dried.

cut bait.

again, NOT THE SAME SITUATION.

uh... ok. I will respond. And not scream doing it.(mild sarcasm... hope you laugh)

It is not the same situation. For that to be true, I would have to be silverwraith's husband... so, you are correct there.

One month affair? You have net read my story, or anything posted about me around here I assume... not that I am that important anyway... I am not proud, but the fact is I had an 18 month affair. As horrible as that is, it is true. I am, luckily and regardless of public opinion, happy that I am no longer that person engaged in those horrible deeds. What I did was horrible and an atrocity. I am glad, at least, that I am no longer continuing that behavior.

How is there no commitment? They are married? That is a commitment, yes? Now, there is no history of commitment for sure. I will grant you that.

interestingly enough, no two situations are exactly the same around here... so apples to apples it might not be... but marriage in close proximity to infidelity it is. Not a complete parallel, sure, but I certainly have experience in a marriage that did not start under the best of terms...and yet I am still married. I must be doing something right, even if it is foot the bills for long enough for her to cut and run. I suppose the future will tell...

I agree with you in that no young marriage should have to go through this tragic evil. Well, any marriage for that matter.

Wedding day happiness is probably ruined. Maybe it isn't Either way, is that in itself enough to close the door? I had numerous events in my life not go as I wanted them and I am still here enjoying life. Certainly not great memories, but life is like that I think. Bad things happen.

I was simply trying to offer an opposing view to leaving the marriage or getting an annulment. She certainly does not have to do anything I have advised. I would hope, however, that she takes the time to calm herself, think rationally and make the best decision for her life. If that includes annulment, who could blame her. If it includes staying and working it out, should she be chastised for that? It is, after all, her life. I was merely trying to show that I had a similar situation, somewhat, and that I, as the FWS, had made the most important changes for recovery to begin. NC. End the affair. Be accountable. Be willing to be transparent.

Now, certainly I have been hardheaded and further hurt my wife with some of my methods, but I have changed vastly, so others, logically, can do it as well.

like her husband.

Take care peachy.

Take care silverwraith.

edited: took out a question to peachy about her marriage after I realized she is not married anymore. My apologies

Wow.

A few days off and I never dreamed more advice was forthcoming.

Thanks to all who took the time and effort to respond.

I feel I need to clarify a few things though. There were references made to this A going on for years, I don't know where that came from (except maybe assumed from my original post?)

My H and I were married on the one-year anniversary of our meeting. He had met the OW around the time he first met me, when he was still dating more than one woman. My issue is not with him DATING her, it's with him continuing to scr*w her AFTER he proposed to me. It was easy for him to do since we lived in different countries at that time. At the time I'm sure he thought no harm done because I would never find out. He said it was a "one last fling" kind of thing, since he had been a lifelong bachelor.

Also, references to us being young are somewhat inaccurate as well. We are both in our 40s. We will not be having any kids of our own. Not sure if these dynamics will affect the advice given or not. Just so folks know I guess that there will be no future kids injured or affected by my decision one way or another.

I'm thrown into emotional turmoil primarily because H says I'm overreacting and "punishing" him for past bad experiences I've had with other men cheating on me. This may be true to some extent but I don't think it's unreasonable of me to be angry.

I had thought about calling the OW before from his cell phone (a sure way to get her to answer) and asking her if it's true that he cut off all contact after the wedding, as he claims. He says she called him once after we married and he told her never to call again. I have no way to verify this short of asking her.

He also says the medallion was something she gave him the last time they saw each other, a parting gift that he doesn't care about and is glad to return to her. Truth or not, who knows.

patriot92, I appreciate your candid sharing of your story and showing the other side. That took courage.

Now I guess the question becomes, do I call the OW as justpeachy suggested and see if he's still lying or let his NC letter be the end of it?

Trouble is if I called her, I'm not sure how big the language gap is, and how in the world would I begin a conversation like that anyway? What possible motivation would she have for being honest or candid with me now? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

~Silverwraith

Silverwraith,

Hi. I am patriot's wife.

I am very sorry for your situation, but glad that you are here, given the circumstances.



I think you answered your own question...



I personally don't see what there is to be gained from calling her.

Why invite her into your life by doing so, asking her verify his statements?

If you are already questioning whether or not she will be honest, is it really a reliable source of information? If it isn't reliable, is it worth pursuing?

In a situation where so much deception has taken place, it seems important to deal with facts. Can you gain the information you are seeking via other methods?

If she is in another country, there would be documentation of contact - cell phone and long distance records, etc...

You are not overreacting.

Well, yes, as a matter of fact ... knowing you are not in your early 20s and you are not going to become pregnant does change things ... (which is why I mentioned calling your parents .... LOL) I always worry about the young woman who stays married after an early infidelity & then has a bunch of babies before finding out she is married to a serial adulteror. Luckily, you've taken that particular worry off the table <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have you both been tested for STDs?

Ask your H why he thinks you ought to stay married to him. See what he says. Also, ask him why he ought to stay married to you after you discovered his betrayal.

Should be interesting.

Pep

Frozen and Pep, thanks for your feedback.

Again, cooler heads prevail, I agree there's no point calling this OW because she will probably see it as an opening to cause trouble in our marriage. According to H she was devastated that he proposed to me and not her, so there is some serious vindictiveness in the wake of that and probably had a lot to do with why she was so determined to seduce him AFTER he got engaged and not before.

Frozen, I had already gone through his cell records and highlighted every instance of when he called her and vice-versa, there were hundreds of calls after our engagement and right up to the day before the wedding. They did stop then but I accused him of just switching to a calling card, it's not rocket science. Soon after he changed to getting his cell bills online so I no longer see them although he offered to print them out whenever I want to check.

My biggest suspicion is that he only kept that cell phone at all to keep in contact with her, it is still a local number in the other country. Costs him a fortune to use here, so why keep it? He claims nobody calls him on it anyway, so why does he need it at all unless it's for her? He denies this. Now he has finally agreed to cancel it so we'll see how that goes.

Pep, believe me I did ask why I should stay, and a thousand other things. Basically he just said he loves me, that he was an idiot and wants to make things right because he believes we are meant to be a couple. Yes I suggested he send the OW the bill for all the medical tests I need to get - yes, I'm going to get the works and insist he do the same. He tries to paint her as this honorable person who couldn't possibly have any diseases - I said he's a naive idiot if he doesn't believe there have been any number of men trooping through her bed. We've already established she has the morals of an alley cat.

I think the most telling thing happened yesterday though. It was our five-month anniversary and he remembered and I didn't. It's so unlike a woman to forget things like that, but I've been swamped in such horrible emotions that I'm lucky I remember to set my alarm clock in the mornings.

Anyway he showed up at work to take me to a surprise lunch, had roses and a gift for me, and this part isn't an act because he's always been very thoughtful that way - but I can't believe I forgot it myself. It probably hurt his feelings. Oh well, join the club...

Thanks for your heartfelt advice, all.

~Silverwraith