Peter,

Just speak from your heart. Women like that stuff (lol.)

Seriously, your W will never be ready to tell you further details because she is terrified. She doesn't want to hurt you, and she is protecting herself. KiwiJ just started a thread about this very subject this morning, if you want to take a look.

Tell your W that eventhough you said you would give her time, the anticipation is absolutely ripping your guts out. Tell her that you understand she is worried and that she doesn't want to hurt you, but not knowing is killing you. Let her know that this will bring you both closer, no matter how painful it is.

Say NOTHING about contacting the OM. That isn't why she's afraid of telling you anyway. You can reassure her if she happens to mention it. What she should be afraid of is you contacting OMW, which I still encourage you to do at some point.

Enjoy your weekend away and hope all goes well. Let us know how things go when you get back.

Katie M.

I am so confused and hurting this morning after finding out this weekend the rest of the details from my wife, but grateful at the same time that she has told me.

So here is the story of how our weekend went.

When I left work on Friday, I had actually decided that I may not say anything to my wife this weekend, and hold off. We are going through a fairly big and stressful decision about possibly buying a small business, and this is just adding to our emotional and mental strain. So I thought I won't say anything unless she brings it up, and then I will see how she is feeling.

On Saturday, she asked how I was doing, and we talked for a while, and I think she was confused when I didn't say I was doing really well, because I hadn't said anything all week. I told her that I had been thinking a lot about the OM, and the fact that she had talked to him this week, and also about the "other news" she said she had to tell me.

Well, we were both upset after this, and didn't talk much for a few hours. It was good that the kids weren't there. Then we went out and talked some more, and she got really upset and said lets just get it over with and I'll tell you the rest of the story tonight.

We went back to the place we were staying at and ended up talking for about 3 hours. She told me that the OM told her in June that he thought he had fallen in love with her. He wrote her a love letter and gave her a present. She threw it out that same day on her way home from work. There were other small details, but nothing significant. The biggest thing that hurt me was that all these months, I had been in so much pain, trying to work through this and giving her the benefit of the doubt. She had to work with OM, and I was hoping, though not always believing that she was putting a stop to it. But she wasn't. I told her that if she was seriously trying to stop it, she would have told him to leave her alone. But she still had feelings for him and wasn't ready to give it up. That she continued to decieve me, and our marriage, hurts so much.

I asked her why she continued to do it, and she isn't sure. She said that she always saw her realtionship with OM as an escape. I asked her what the escape was from, since she and I both think that we have a very good marriage. She's not sure, but after talking for a while, I think we both know that we have always had problems lurking in the background that we don't deal with because they are too painful. We both agreed that we are going to start working on this.

As far as NC, I think that we have an agreement. I asked her if she could do it, and she said she wanted to do it on her own terms. I said that I didn't want her to talk to him or see him when delivering the news. She is going to write up a letter, and let me see it. She isn't ready to do this yet, so I told her how does a month sound, and she agreed. I f it's not done by then, we agreed that I would step in and help with the letter and get it delivered.

I was so grateful that she told me, and also that there was no PA. I think that we are slowly starting to get back on the same page. There is a lot of new stuff that I have to deal with now. I have a lot of resentment towards my wife and OM right now as far betrayal. I guarantee I will not fall for the same BS from the OM ever again. He is a liar and a coward, in his words and his actions.

Now I just have to wait and see what happens as far as the NC this month. I think it will happen sooner, since my wife does not like to put hard decisions like this off. I'm a little worried that she'll have a hard time dealing with it, so I'll be cautious.

Take Care,

Does she visually see him at work? No talking...but seeing?

And a month, Peter? Nononono...as long as she is in contact, the affair continues...for you, that means, you're a conspirator in an affair against your marriage....

And Peter? I know that's not you.

Please listen and repeat when you two interact...listen to what she says and repeat to her, highlighting her choice...

"I hear you are choosing not to end contact now, is that correct?"

"I hear you are choosing to have feelings for OM, is that correct?"

These are real choices she's making...when you respectfully listen and repeat, you both will comprehend this.

I am positive you stated your deep appreciation to get your questions really answered about the EA...did you expose to her work? Others?

I ask because busting this affair will save your marriage...not taking a month for her to work out how to not contact someone...

In order to cheat on your spouse, you must be able to lie to yourself convincingly...in Plan A, we help our WS to hear truth, not lies...by handing back their words.

Respect her as the adult woman she is, choosing her life, owning her own thoughts, feelings and beliefs.

She is. It's a fact.

Do not agree to anything that betrays yourself more...you've had enough. You are not disrespectful to her or yourself when you say, "I do marriage. No third parties. If you choose to continue contact, then you need to move out of our home by yourself. There's not enough room for him in our marriage."

If this is your truth, then this is worth stating, isn't it?

Now...I'm coming from the experience of having my WH work with OW for three months before transferring away...to get away from OW...I don't know how closely OM works with your WW, but mine had her in his fantasies for over a year and a half before acting on his EA/PA...it matters.

I credit my DH for saving our marriage through his choices.

That's the way I see it.

LA

Thanks for the advice LA. I'll just clear up a few of the facts of our story for you.

[Does she visually see him at work? No talking...but seeing?]

She left her job a month ago to try and end things with him. They had been working directly with each other for the previous 4 months since I found out.


[And a month, Peter? Nononono...as long as she is in contact, the affair continues...for you, that means, you're a conspirator in an affair against your marriage....]

I have been requesting NC for a while, but never said that it would not be acceptable for her to be friends with him until a week ago. She had maintained all along that she wanted to remain friends with him. This is the first time that she has realized that she can't be. I know a month seems like a lot, but I will keep up the pressure on her. I will use the lines that you suggest, and see what she says.


[I am positive you stated your deep appreciation to get your questions really answered about the EA...did you expose to her work? Others?]

I made sure that she knew that I was very grateful about her telling me the details, and answering any questions I had. The OMW knows what happened as well as friends of ours and my parents. No one at the place they worked at knew.



[Now...I'm coming from the experience of having my WH work with OW for three months before transferring away...to get away from OW...I don't know how closely OM works with your WW, but mine had her in his fantasies for over a year and a half before acting on his EA/PA...it matters.]

This is the part that worries me if my wife doesn't end contact. She thinks that she can control her feelings, but he says that he's in love with her, and this may continue. What if he sees her again and is more forceful with his feelings, and she doesn't have the self control to stop. I am scared to death of this happening.
I will fight as hard as I can to get her to see this danger, and have permanent NC with OM.

Take Care,

Peter:

I don't understand something...

Why not call one of the Harleys???

At this stage, things are still pretty precarious. A single email or phonecall or "chance encounter" could put your W over the edge and back in2 her A (which from your view has never ended because contact continues - remember that!!).

Whereas, a single session with either Steve or Jennifer now could prevent years of suffering and give you and your W a solid plan, based on decades of experience, for rebuilding your M and making it as affair-proof as it can be before any more damage could be done.

Know this: There are hundreds of people here who wish they had taken this particular step at this particular stage. I speak from personal experience.

-ol' 2long

Peter, Peter, Peter . . . You know that "fog" that they say WSs get lost in? Well, BSs can get lost in a fog of their own.

I fear you have just set yourself up for a very hard fall.
Mulan

Pete - ditto the others.

A month to wait for a NC letter draft is about 30 days too long.


I bet there's a LOT more significant. She's downplaying this.

OM doesn't fall in love with her without some physical activity.

But your actions in response should be the same - NC and get into counseling right away.

This I believe. Usually the OP is just a useful idiot. It's not about them. It's about the feeling they provide. Regardless, use this "escape" logic as a real good reason to find another escape - a better marriage with you.

JMHO

WAT

WAT,
I agree that a month is too long if it means there is a chance they could see each other and something could be reignited. I believe my wife truly means it when she says that she thinks she can control herself now, but I really don't think she is seeing the whole picture, and how dangerous it could be. She can't say what her reaction is going to be, because if she does see him, it will be very emotional for the 2 of them, realizing that they can't see each other any more. And that is where something can go wrong. But she is coming to this realization as well, and knows that she can't see or talk to him anymore.

I am not willing to accept this for our marriage, so I will continue to put pressure on her to do the NC letter right away. I will make sure she knows this.

How hard is this going to be on her? She really wants to keep in touch with OM to see how he's doing, and I think she will feel like she is letting him down. She has been a huge emotional support for him, and she is going to have to take that away. I know this will bother her a lot. How can I help her deal with this?

Is it too early to start talking about the EN we've had in the past that we've always pushed away? There is one that I have felt guilty about for years that I want to talk to her now about. But I'm not sure if it's the right time.

Take Care,

Well, I'm probably not the best one to advise on a woman's withdrawal, but I recommmend you initially validate her "pain."

Yep, that may be hard for you to do, but reasoning with her right off the bat may not be available. If reason worked, all you'd have to do is describe how she ought to be caring for her marriage instead of caring for OM.

So validate. Make YOU a safe place to be for her.

Hopefully the ladies will provide some more advice - or refute mine.

WAT

Call toll-free 1 (888) 639-1639
or
e-mail (counsel@marriagebuilders.com) an appointment request by completing the form below.

Don't put this off a femtosecond longer, Peter.

-ol' 2long

I agree with 2Long and WAT (which isn't news, of course)...

I want to address the idea of you putting pressure on her to send NC letter...that mindset, that you can pressure her is biting your own tushie...

Respect her choice. She is choosing to put a fantasy (this is for you to know and her to discover after withdrawal) ahead of your marriage. All contact continues the affair...that's for you to know, state and share.

She is choose to be an emotional support for OM and not for her H...can't be both. For you to know that what she gives to others takes from your marriage...that's the crux of an affair.

Respect her, Peter...she is choosing...she is not helpless...the more you state you know she's capable of this, that you know it, the more chance you have at a respectful recovery.

LA

Im sorry Peter but you are so setting your self up for futher pain...One of the biggest regrets BS has is not putting the foot down, when the had the chance..

So please do that.Valdate her pain and exlein yours aswell

And write that NC letter ASAP

Peter,

You mentioned buying a business with her. Don't do it. There is no way you should further intangle yourself with this until there is truly no contact. She is still in the affair and the fog, hence the "doing it MY way" stuff.

It is not acceptable, and she knows it but she knows you will allow it. I think you really really need to back off now and start to consider alternatives.

God Bless,

JL

Hi Peter. You said:

"How hard is this going to be on her? She really wants to keep in touch with OM to see how he's doing, and I think she will feel like she is letting him down. She has been a huge emotional support for him, and she is going to have to take that away. I know this will bother her a lot. How can I help her deal with this?"

and LA responded:

"She is choose to be an emotional support for OM and not for her H...can't be both. For you to know that what she gives to others takes from your marriage...that's the crux of an affair.

Respect her, Peter...she is choosing...she is not helpless...the more you state you know she's capable of this, that you know it, the more chance you have at a respectful recovery."

I absolutely agree with LA. You need to be firm, but respectful. She CANNOT be support for OM. The fact that she is suggesting this is foggy and horrid. I understand wanting to compromise, but this is one circumstances where there should be none.

Do you and your W argue? Or do you try and avoid fighting at all costs?

This "compromise" makes me think you are avoiding an argument with her. Don't do it. It is absolutely possible to fight firmly and respectfully. Don't back down on this issue. Talk to her again, and tell her you had a change of heart. Because even though you agreed to this in words, you obviously don't agree with it emotionally. PLEASE stop betraying yourself.

Also, your W's belief that she is a "huge emotional support" for OM is just that... her belief. Her very foggy belief. I don't think I need to tell you that OM's W should be filling that role.

Have you given any thought to calling Dr. Harley? I think that would be an excellent idea as well...

Katie Mae

... ditto to JL's recommendation re: the buisness.

Tell your W all bets are off until this issue is resolved.

This can be approached in a way that isn't a LB.

Tell her you don't feel safe in this M right now, and this venture will cease until your M is healthy again.

Please, please, please don't do this... I know it may seem like a good way to bring you closer, and maybe you think you can keep your eye on her a little more, but it won't work. It will make this worse... guaranteed.

I'm sorry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I thought when I first came here that it would be helpful for me to be able to vent my frustrations and feelings to people who have been where I am and can understand. I am feeling so much pain and conflict from the advice I get here, and where I am in my own thoughts. I know everybody is just trying to be helpful, and relating what has happened in their own experiences, and I am so thankful that you all care.

Last night, when I got home from work, I was feeling an incredible amount of pain. The radio on the way home was playing the song that the OM had dedicated to my wife. I cried when I heard it. When I got home, my beautiful wife was waiting on the porch to talk to me. She had heard the same song an hour ago, and for the first time she felt really bad listening to that song. She said that it is a beautiful song, and she wished that it had not been tainted for her. I had told her a while ago when she told me about the song that I was going to put it on a cd for her that I was making. She wishes that she hadn't taken that away from me, and that the song was our song instead. She aplogized again for what she did, and she cried.

I felt for her so much, and the pain that she was feeling. I wished that I could take it away, but I can't. All I can do is help her.

We did have a few other talks last night, and she is having a really hard time. She told me that she never left me emotionally thoughout this whole time. I know that she didn't.

I know that nobody here will believe me when I say this, but my wife is trying as hard as she can to make this right for our marriage. I am proud of her for coming as far as she has, and I know it will continue. She will get to the spot soon where she will not contact OM anymore.

Katie and other FWS, you must understand how hard this is for her. She is trying to do the right thing, but she doesn't want to hurt anybody. I know this is twisted thinking when she is still in the situation, but she is starting to get it.

At the same time, I am starting to understand how painful this is for her. And I need to do that for her and for me to understand her better. If I want to meet her EN, I need to understand when she is hurting, and what is happening in her head. I have always had a pretty good understanding of my wife, but it needs to be better.

Take Care,

SERIOUSLY. DO THIS NOW

-ol' 2long

OR:

Send your W here. But call the Harleys is a far better first step.

-ol' 2long

Peter...I was an OM...

More went on than she's telling you. I suppose it's your choice to deny it if you choose...

Peter,

I do understand how hard it is for your W. She DOES need your help. She can't do this alone.

That being said, she is also an addict and needs to be removed from her drugs. Have you ever smoked cigarettes, or known someone who tried to quit smoking? The first several weeks of withdrawal from nicotine makes you cranky, selfish, mean... you can't sleep, hate eating, etc. People say, "why don't you just go back to smoking if you're going to be this awful!" But eventually the pain goes away, and you get better.

Your W will be in utter h*ll when she stops talking to OM. You are going to have to be the NC police... be lovingly firm... and unlike cigarettes, her ugly mood will hurt you to the core... but it will be worth it in the end if she truly withdraws. Just NEVER give into temptation to let her see/talk to OM because you feel badly for her... she is an addict, and that one contact (or one cigarette, one beer) will "fix" her for a day and then you'll be back to square one.

Peter, it IS painful. Your W will be incredibly upset, as will you. But it will be worth going through... it will make you stronger.

I'm sorry the messages you are getting here are conflicting with what you're feeling... typically, busting up As go against instinct. It just doesn't feel "right"... but it is.

((Peter)). Are you eating and sleeping okay? How are things going at work? I worry about you getting depressed.