LOL, Orchid. Yes, I think some times that my H sees thigns one way only. Has difficulty looking at things from another perspective.

I just hope I can get through. I believe reverse babble will help.

ORchid, I've been reading the book. I hadn't found a section that deals specifically on Communication. Would you know which chapter it is in?

Orchid, if you happen to be out here I want to ask another question. What if my H is simply indifferent about how I feel. What if he simply feels it doesn't matter. If I implemented Plan B would it even be worth it? I'm wondering if he just doesn't care enough. I mean isn't this why people get divorced in the first place?

WH and talked about NC email to send the female that had been trying to contact him. He said he was still going to do it. I asked him if had written up a draft. He said no. Said he didn't have an add. So I asked him what would the NC email/letter say? He told me and told me to send it to her.


Now I feel a little skeptical about this one. He is the one that got this started again and furthermore, I'm the BS. ANd also he has betrayed me before by telling me one thing then going back and telling her something else. So how do I know he is sincere? I feel I don't know who I'm dealing with.

Orchid: I don't know which chapter. I read it over 5 years ago and loaned my copy out. I will try and look it up at the bookstore.


Orchid: As a Ws he will be indifferent. As your H he shouldn't be. Mine was indifferent. I used to absorb and try to fix him, until I realized it was not my place to 'fix' him. It was his place. So when he acted indifferent, I did also. He didn't get his clothes washed on time a few times..... seemed to have an impact. Whereas his indfference towards me was something I could tolerate. Yet he relied more on me for stuff and he felt it sooner. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Hard thing t/d but my giver had to stop babying him.



Orchid: Again, if he is the WS you should expect him NOT to care. Reverse babble comes in handy during these times. You also need to learn how to NOT care towards him. Does that sound anti MB? Well the way I describe it is this is when you plan A your spouse (be nice to him and show him your self improvements) but plan B the WS (when he acts like a WS, withdraw your acts of kindness). The WS should never benefit from acts of kindness meant for your loving spouse.

Otherwise, the message you c/b sending is no matter what he is, you will still give him what he wants. Then the greedy side of the WS is empowered to continue harassing you.


Orchid: That's up to you. You want to continue as thigs are? My Xws told me as long as I was willing to keep giving, he was gonna keep taking. He told me that just before I implemented plan B. I can tell you, that thought was quite motivating for me to go to plan B.


Orchid: If he is a WS he doesn't care enough. Be patient. Ask your H, when is he coming back as your H? Tell him you have something to show your H but not the WS. Give him a goal he can work towards. Don't placate the WS.


Orchid: He wants you t/d his dirty work for him. The best thing is to let him do it. Don't send the NC for him. He got himself into this mess, he needs to get out. Your support s/b sufficient. Anymore and the WS will be empowered by his manipulative acts of getting you t/d his dirty deeds and he will not look guilty to the OP.


Orchid: You should feel skeptical. Trust your gut.

take care,
L.

HI ya, Orchid. I totally agree about the NC. It seemed not good to me.


Your techniques and strategies for dealing with WS and H are great. No, they don't seem very MBish, but on the other hand they do. Dr Harley talks about how we learn to love people that take care of us and build in our LBanks, and obviously we do the opposite for someone that doesn't. By your giver giving to H and your taker not giving to WH you were acting to me in MB principle.

It seems to me that you have to have a lot of self control to handle things as you have. I'm not as controlled. I truly kick my butt when I give into WH, ugh. I'm trying to learn to tell him no and get on about my buisness.

AM a little bit weak in the back bone. I don't know how I could be with all WH has taken me through. But I am. I'm getting better though.

I'm still reading HNHN. Don't worry about looking up communication part. I found an area where Dr harley gives tips about conversation. It is helpful.. So I'll kind of look more in this area.

Orchid, thanks for being supportive and posting back to me. This journey has been difficult and roads are winding all throughout. I appreciate your being helpful at a tough time for me. You take care, also.

I can't say I have a lot of self-control.....I am not tolerant of stupidity.....that's what I learned out of all this mess. Am I grouchy? No.

I read the book 'giver/taker' by Dr Harley and could see a fault of being a giver. Balance is the key to living or coping well. My giver was inherent due to my upbringing and my H's upbringing taught he survival of the fittest. So it was a match but not an even one. My giver pulled too far to the right and his taker too far to the left. For our R to survive, we both had to give in to the 'other side'. So I am learning to relax my giver and let my taker come out to play. H is learning to be more giving and less grumpy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It is having positive results with room for impovement.

Identifying your boundaries will really help you get grounded so that when the WS tries to rock your world, you will be firm in your resolve NOT to allow him to shake you up like before.

All the best,
L.

Yes, I'm working on those boundaries. Still a hard concept to grasp. But I'm reading up on them and working on establishing them.

All the best to you as well.

I put a post about this or it is similarly written.

Star*fish, I've added you to my address book. As a result I can see when you're out here. And I happen to see that you are out here. Please forgive me if I'm imposing. Would you look at this link if you have time. If you choose not to I understand being that I haven't asked you prior to this point.

H may be angry enough to look into the Big "D"

Ok, I saw that my H had a female's telephone number in his wallet from his job. When I approached him he tells me that he is tired of discussing this with me and was very angry.

He said was given her telephone number because he was suppose to go to her house and fix her PC. I told him I would be very uncomfortable with that and that I do not want it to happen. He said ok. He said that it was no big deal.

He said I was making stuff out of it and he is tired of this. If I had just held my tongue I think I would've been ok, but then I went on to sayt he following. I told him this was how the first situation happened. He was suppose to be fixing this guys PC and he was scoping out his wife and started an A. He became very angry at my saying this. Says he wants to just leave. I told him fine, we can talk to the legal assist about this but I'm not doing anything any further with him until I know I can trust him.

I feel we need to talk to someone about dv so we can consider the cost. But I also don't want to have to just yet. Trust has to be restored and it isn't going to happen with him not respecting boundaries.

LLG,

He doesn't like to hear what you say....because he knows it's true and feels guilty about it. Most of the men I know....including my husband....react to guilt with anger. Your husband is not ready to work on this marriage, and he keeps doing the same things that put your marriage at risk. (So do you btw) So what are your options? If you remain where you are....I'm convinced he'll keep trampling your feelings and that you two are on a fast track to divorce. I think you're skipping a step by going straight to divorce. I'd rather see you use a Plan B with very strict conditions for reconciliation (and that would include your effort to get control of spending). Give him the freedom he seems to think he wants. He'll either run with it.....or he'll realize you're worth more than his need to impress other women. Either way chere....you're better off.

In the meantime....you don't need your husband to TAKE the credit cards. You need to put them in a safety deposit box....and leave them there until you can get some credit counseling and get out of debt. No matter what happens to your marriage....that addiction will ruin your life and any relationship you enter. Find some help in that regard.

I think the same thing. I actually was considering going into Plan B myself in a couple weeks but I wanted to make mor positive impressions before I did. But i feel it is becoming unbearable. Yet the R is becoming stale. I can't see just setting myself up to just recieve him sexually or emtoionally without trust.


Yes, I went ahead and shreded them myself. And I am working on counseling also..

Thanks for being here to help me out. I guess i've been afraid to go toward dv, yet I've started reading books on it. On the insides I can't see myself settling for what he is NOT giving me. ANd I feel I'm at odds. I'm back to arguing and not really helping the matter.

LLG,

I don't believe in settling....fight for a real marriage! I think you need to start preparing for Plan B and all the logistics of that plan. In the time you have left....please do the best Plan A you can (recognizing that you're not comfortable fulfilling sexual needs right now....and that's okay). Fill other needs you are comfortable with (that's really important....don't just withdraw okay?), end R talks and talks about the stuff you find. Your H knows where your boundaries are....he just doesn't respect them....so it's time to actually enforce those boundaries and end contact until he is serious about rebuilding your marriage. It's a waste of time to try and rebuild with someone who isn't really remorseful. Real remorse is not just feeling bad about hurting you in the past....but a willingness to prevent hurting you in the future. He's not there yet.

I don't believe in settling anymore either. That is what I've done with him for a while now and I don't want anymore of that.


Ok. what if becomes even more annoyed that I'm still not participating in SF? This is the thing. I told him I am holding off until his test and results and treatment. We are due to be tested together. For me it will be a retest. He doesn't abide by not having SF still tries to come after me for it. Then becomes angry and pouts. We will be tested on 8.11. But if I am meeting his other needs would it be best to steer away from too much closeness? I don't want to give him the wrong message or cause him to feel I'm toying with him.

I'm wondering how come my H is making the choices he is making. Is it that he just doesn't love me or is it that he just isn't sold on us? Or is it that my attitude is just bad and he is reacting to it? Honestly it is hard to be good in this situation?

Anyway, I've been reading a book by Susan Page called, "How one of us can bring the two of us together." one strategy she mentions is doing the opposite of what you would normally do when you and your partner are at odds. Is it that maybe he isn't impressed with me as I am now? Is it that I would need to do a 360 in my attitude or is he just the type that simply isn't ready to really commit right now as you noted? It really is difficult to figure it all out right now.