At 6pm I go for my first session with a counselor. It's just going to be me. I'm not sure my WW is interested. She still just wants us to be "friends," and thinks we should both be "single for awhile" (yeah, I know, she says this yet we're not even divorced yet). Lately, she's been acting totally different than when she first moved out. She's been affectionate and loving, even acted like she wants to see me and wants to spend time with me.

But anyway, counseling. I have no idea how this works, as I've never seen a counselor before in my entire life. I'm doing it for me - to help me deal with my trust and confidence issues, to help me deal with my rollercoaster emotions right now, to help with my anger issues. I want to find the man inside me.. the man I once was. I want to be that man again for my sake and my son's sake. If being that man again brings my wife back to me and makes her want to work things out with me, I would love that. But even if it doesn't, it will make me more confident and able to eventually find someone who will make me happy and who will be a wonderful wife for me.

I need this. Counseling, that is. My friends are all terribly biased. That's okay, and it's to be expected, but I need someone who can just listen and be impartial right now. I need someone who will give me advice based not on their emotional connection to me. I hope it helps, and I hope it works.

Thank you all, by the way. I've been a pain, and I know I've been hard to deal with. I have a terrible situation, and the fact that I want to forgive her and want to give my marriage another shot seems to frustrate so many people.. I just.. I'm not ready to give up on her until I know for a fact that it has to be over. Not until I know for a fact that she is beyond redemption. I don't think she is there yet. I have hope.

We must accept finite disappointment, but we must never lose infinite hope.
--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Every area of trouble gives out a ray of hope;
and the one unchangeable certanity is that
nothing is certain or unchangeable.
--John Fitzgerald Kennedy

hey you got the right attititudee here friends are telling you what to do but you have to tell you what to do..i feel the same way you do and my friends tell me forget her and move on like its that easy i wish you well and dont hold back in councling but eventually youll have to decide what you want to do if you dont want to give up dont.fight till the end till theres nothing left to fight for thats what im gonna do ....just food for thought good luck

Thanks man. IC went well. The counselors were very easy to talk to and they made me think really hard about things. They also made me think about things in different ways. That was interesting, in that it made me look at problems from a different perspective.

We're going to work on my anger and confidence issues. We're going to try to find the man I was when my WW first fell head-over-heels in love with me, and then we're going to make him a better person. I have to do this, for myself. I want to be a better person.

As for my WW, I am fighting for her, tooth and nail. I won't give up on her.

I appreciate your thread here about counseling and hope you continue posting about it.

LA

I will. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Granted, my next session isn't until Thursday, so my posts will likely just be a weekly thing.

I will need to do a lot of work with myself. I have to move on. I said, above, that I was fighting tooth and nail for my WW, but I'm not anymore. I gave up. She's made it abundantly clear that all she wants is to be my friend, and I can't do that. Not yet, at least. I'm not ready. It hurts far too much.

My second IC session is this afternoon. Starts in about an hour. I will come back in afterward and let everyone know how it went.

Are ya back yet?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

hello. how was your IC?

i read somewhere that as long as both partners are still unmarried, then there is always hope for reconciliation.

i myself have made some very startling discoveries re WH and addiction. of course, it's sad that he hasn't discovered that about himself yet. But then it helps me "deal" with things better. Just trying to understand the why's of his behavior.

update us on your IC

Ha, sorry I did not post last night after the session. When I got home, things happened. WW had shown up wanting to see me while I was at my session. She was gone by the time I got there, but my roommate and one of my friends were both pretty upset that she'd been by. She had also left something at the house and I ended up taking it back to her.

The session went well. They're trying to get me to focus less on her and my relationship with her and more on myself. They want me to stop worrying about where she is or what she might be doing, because all of that is just speculation and isn't fact. They're trying to teach me how to ground myself.. how to live in the now and live for myself (and my son).

They as a lot of probing questions. And they ask them in ways that make me think outside of the box. It's really rather interesting, and it always makes me think really hard. Oh, and some of their questions are REALLY HARD for me to answer. But I work my way through them, and almost always find the answers eventually.

I'm hoping that this will help me with my confidence issues. I know that my sometimes severe lack of self-confidence is a really bad turn off to people, and especially to women. They've asked me what I can do to make myself more confident, and I think I know where to go from here. We're gradually forming a plan for me... things to do that would make me feel better about myself and be happier with myself. Hopefully next week we'll be able to work more on this plan.

If I can better myself... if I can become a better person... I can get what I want. I know I can. Regardless of what that is, be it my wife or someone else, I can get it.

I'm ready to be happy. I'm looking forward to finding myself again. To finding the new me. He's in there, I know he is.

EDIT: I forgot to say. They told me that I really need to stop worrying about the future of my relationship with my wife. They asked me this: On a scale of 1% to 100%, how much effort had I put into fixing my marriage? I told them that I had put in 100%.

They smiled and said that I just needed to look at it this way: I put forward all that I could, and did my best. Now it's time to just see what happens.

Thank you for posting, RX...

"I know that my sometimes severe lack of self-confidence is a really bad turn off to people, and especially to women."

Gotta ask you this...is it a really bad turn off to you?

I like to get the intent before the plan, but that's just me.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Same thing for becoming this better person...for you or others?

And I'm voting for rediscovering the really authentic self over becoming someone else, that nebulous "better person"...that is, if you're holding an election for one or the other to run your life.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How do you feel about your two sessions...just the raw feeling afterward, before WW's actions interrupted them?

LA

Hey, awesome. I am at IC too. My WS went with me once with trepidation. She had never been and thought she would be made out to be the badguy.

She ended up enjoying it and admitting that should the A not work, she would be willing to work on M, given time.

Anyway, I think one key to good counseling is to instantly connect with the counselor. And remember, it is about improving yourself. Remember, BS's, if they are here, are very strong people: we have stood against a deluge of horrible pain and suffering, yet many of us have refused to go to the dark side.

Good luck to you and yours.

I felt really good about both sessions. Relaxed and at ease. More in control of myself and my life.

I need more time though. Things happen and that feeling fades so fast.

Of course, this past weekend was terrible and just made things worse.

I saw your other thread...and don't understand...because what she says is about her...not THE truth...her opinion.

"Well, things happened this weekend and everything just got worse. I really, really hate this. I hate feeling used. I hate feeling like an idiot. I feel like I'm just so stupid."

Consider you can choose what you believe, and thereby, what you feel...You are not an idiot...you're human. You are not stupid...God didn't make no junk, any time, and did not begin with you. Humans do stupid things...react without thinking...they are not stupid.

"She told me tonight (while she was apparently upset because, I'm assuming, somebody she really liked must have spurned her or something"

Stop assuming...fact...she was upset because she said she was? Or your assumption? Are you used to being her punching bag, so you're ready to assume she transfers her feelings onto you?

"--when I asked if she was okay, she told me it wasn't my concern and was none of my business, etc)"

Your response: "I asked because I want to understand your thoughts and feelings. I hear you believe what you are thinking or feeling is none of my concern, is that correct?"

Because then, she does make it your business...about you...and it isn't...still her stuff...if you choose to believe that...

"that she had just 'settled' when she married me. That she didn't 'reach,' and that she just took the 'safe and secure' route."

Your response: "I am sorry to hear you think so poorly of yourself. I believe you really are a better person than you believe you are." Stay in the facts...she chose you, loved you, was in love with you...YOU KNOW THAT. Revising history doesn't work...it's a sign of resentment and self-loathing...get to understand that really well..in case you do it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

"Nothing else she has ever said to me has made me feel worse than those words." She can say the moon is mad at you...does not make it anything but opinion...unless you choose to make it YOUR truth, taking on what is not yours...as yours.

"I can't stand this. I can't do this anymore. I don't know how to go on. It hurts so much. I feel so worthless. I just want to sleep forever. In sleep I dream, in dreams I am happy and have everything I want. My whole family can be together and happy. I hate this."

This is your own inner child...and you're experiencing every take down, harsh judgment, someone defining who you are that has ever occurred in your life...even long before you met your wife...you are experiecing all rejection at once, cumulatively, to date.

That's a huge punch, RX...sit with it...sort out just her words, this time, in the present (okay, last weekend), and ask yourself true questions about this one...not all of them...piled on top of each other, towering over you.

You're still you. You are. In God's design, no one else has the power to define you, adult human RX...you're you. As a child, we didn't know we choose our beliefs, enforce our boundaries, learn we were made marvelously, whole and complete...as an adult...you have experienced this truth and maybe shunned it...disproved it to yourself, invalidated all that you are...

and...

yet you still are...that whole, complete, marvelously made human being...who only has control over yourself (freedom from controlling anyone else) and the responsibility to only control you...through choice. Period. Human limits and powerful choice.

That's you. That's reality. And when you feel deeply your wounded inner child...you are still an adult, fully capable of comforting yourself in reality...it will be all right...you are not changed when defined; not erased when replaced (and you are irreplaceable); you exist when abandoned and you breathe through pain.

You are.

Say "I am." Say it 19 times a day...if you can. Because that acknowledges reality. You are.

And you're not alone...stupid...an idiot...defective...or wrong. Please stop hurting yourself by choosing to believe this...it is fantasy...not real.

What she says is hers...and mostly about her...not you. You cannot cause, control or cure another human being...to believe so is to choose to live disrespectfully.

Choose respect.

You can do this. You can thrive.

I have no doubt.

You are in control of your life when you feel like you aren't. When you feel you are not in control...usually, if you look closely enough, it is because you want to be in control of someone else's life...

You can only control yourself...have your feelings...they are yours...they are information about you from your beliefs...trace them to the beliefs...and doublecheck them...did you choose it, or adopt it from someone else? (Her?) Is it your belief, truly? Is it your adult belief from your years of experience...or one you picked up or were given as a child?

Focus on you. Feelings fade if the belief isn't firm...reinforce the belief, re-experience the feeling. They are yours.

Remember...if you give yourself permission to judge yourself...then you will do that to others...believe them idiots, stupid and used. You will. Belief systems are two-way streets...can't go one way.

In your corner,

LA

I don't know what to do.

Thank you for your words. For your support. It means a lot to me and really helps. Wednesday I had another terrible thing happen to me that shook my resolve: I was told that I was being laid off as of the 1st. I broke, and it was hard, but I am feeling much better now and I intend to fight for my job or at least for some sort of severance before I let go.

I think you are right, though... she's just trying to revise history. Maybe she thinks it will make her feel better about the cheating and leaving me like she did. I know that, ultimately, it won't work though. I know that, deep down, this will haunt her for a long time. Maybe someday, when we both are older and wiser, we can try again. But I don't expect that day to come for quite awhile, and I think I am finally starting to be okay with that. I have a lot of growing to do, myself.


She actually told me directly that she was upset. It was when I asked her what made her upset that she told me it was none of my business, hence why I assumed the way I did. She was acting like someone had hurt her feelings. Perhaps the assumption was wrong of me to do.

Anyway, I do really appreciate your help. Thank you so very much. I go to counseling again tomorrow (today? heh) and will let you all know how it goes.

The session today went really well. It was cut short, unfortunately, because I was a little late, but we got a lot accomplished in what little time we had.

I discovered something in myself. When I was young, I was always told that persistance paid off. Well, I think that I have a serious problem with persistance, in that I try too hard and am not willing to give up. I don't seem to understand that it is not necessarily giving up when you move on. So, especially in relationships, I have a hard time letting go, because that part of me wants to keep trying and keep pushing. In certain situations (mostly those that don't involve relationships with other people), persistance and perserverance DO pay off, but there is a line between persistance and stubbornness when it comes to dealing with people. You can't force other people to do what you want in order to 'win.'

And that's been my problem for a long time. It's why it has been so hard for me to let go.

That's a start. It will hopefully help me get over my control issues.

I also found out that I have issues with acceptance. I need acceptance from other people, so much so in fact that I have a fear of rejection. This is nothing new, but I have started to find out where in my past these feelings come from. This is hopefully a start to my healing process. And hopefully it will help me become more self-confident and self-reliant. Maybe it will also give me more self-respect and allow me to stop letting people walk all over me.

I hope. I would love to feel strong again.