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#1709027 07/14/06 10:45 AM
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My ex ww has physical custody of our kids. I get them every weekend, so far, and sometimes see them during the week.

For those not familiar with my saga, I am a former AF pilot.

I came home from a deployment, got off the plane to be blindsided by my ws with "I want a divorce."

Never saw it coming. We have 3 kids. I found out she put herself on myspace while I was gone, said she was divorced when she wasn't, went out with 4 different guys in the two weeks before I came home and had a sexual encounter with one of those men. She asked for a no contest divorce and like an idiot I gave her one.

I'm just now getting back on my feet. I left the AF on 30 April and was unemployed for 3 months before getting hired by a firm. I will now make good money and should be fairly comfortable.

My ex ww is 26 going on 13. She's happy to be single again and regularly leaves the kids with her parents and with our nanny so she can go clubbing and on dates.

This past Tuesday was my first day of work. It should have been a happy day, but it wasn't. It is a totally different world and I feel a bit overwhelmed. It is a different culture than it was in the AF, but that's ok. It's just going to take some adjustment.

The thing that hit me was that when I was heading home, I realized I was coming home to an empty house. No wife would be there to greet me or kids to put to bed and feed. I got home and called my daughter and bawled my eyes out for having lost my family.

My ex ww treats me like I'm an enemy. She is generous with the kids, but otherwise doesn't want to talk to me.

Now that I'm starting to get on my feet I'm realizing how stupid I was in handling all of this and how weak I was. I should have contested the divorce. I should have fought for custody, I'm a better parent and more mature than her. I should have thrown her out of the house when I found out she cheated. Instead, I was weak.

Now I'm getting stronger and I have hired a lawyer. The fact that she is now moving nearby gives me an opening to file for a change of custody. I'm preparing for a fight, yet I wish it didn't have to be this way.

I wish she woke up and realize what kind of mistake she's making. She's back on myspace and dating these guys that I don't want anywhere near my kids. She hasn't brought them around the kids yet, but I don't expect that to last forever.

I have a job that pays me 90k a year and she's working for 13 dollars and hour. That puts her at a little over 2000 a month, yet her rent costs 1450. She expects me to pick up the slack, pay for her to have a live in nanny, and pay out the nose in child support.

Reality will slam her when it finally hits and the nanny's visa expires and she has to leave to go back to Czech republic. I would forgive her and try to bring our family back together, but how could I ever trust her again.

I was a good husband and a great father. She won't find another man like me. That's not arrogance talking. I put up with her serious and many medical and psychological problems. I took care of the kids on my own several times because she was unable to. I did it all without complaint.

Believe me, she's a handful for anyone to handle and very insecure. I don't think too many men out there will jump at the chance to take care of her and 3 kids when she's finally ready to get serious.

Does anyone else out there find themselves longing for the family they have lost, but not for their ex ww?


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Many people long for the loss of the sense of family.
Do all you can to take care of yourself and to be a good father to your children. If you go for more custody, be sure you will be able to care for the kids on your own.

Your post is critical of your STBX and her parenting skills, but you were away on deployment and she had responsibility for the kids. Even with a nanny in the house.

Hopefully she is getting the advice that children need both parents and you will have more parenting time, as in overnights. Be sure you can handle it.

My X says all the time he wants more time with the kids, but doesn't take more time or ask for any. The kids are tired of hearing it. You will lead your own life someday, and need time for that.


It was a marriage that never really started.
H: Conflict Avoider, NPD No communication skills (Confirmed by MC) Me: Enabler
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Quote
Does anyone else out there find themselves longing for the family they have lost, but not for their ex
My WH keeps trying to fight over the divorce settlement because he has it in his head that anything I offer must be bad. What he doesn't understand is that I'm not trying to cheat him because I know that won't make me happy. Nothing can replace the family he took from me. I've accepted that I may never see my SS's again, but it still hurts. The last time I saw the oldest he hugged me in his big arms and told me he loved me. He's not allowed to even contact me. I can only rest in the hope that I made a good impact on their life during the last 10 years. My DD seems to be doing ok, but even our relationship has changed (good, but changed).

It's strange how it's sometimes the smallest things that we miss the most. A sound or daily activity. This is normal. Take time to mourn. These are real losses. Then you can move forward and create a new life. Different doesn't have to be bad.


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My deep sympathy Papaof3. I read these posts of A and young children and my heart breaks for you all. It also leaves me mystified at my own fizzled out M and wondering how simple apathy could bring us to D.

Papaof3, you are faced with a singular purpose now. There are three lives at stake over how you conduct yourself in the months and years ahead. I beg you, turn all your energies toward that objective. Be pleased that you are sending so much child support not angry, because that money is theirs. Do everything you can to structure finances to get it to them and not nights on the town. Go to court and fight for your children. Be strong for them and don’t cry to them. You need this focus and they need your strength.

Thank you also for your service to our Country. Give that same commitment and devotion to these three.

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I try hard not to cry in front of the kids and have been successful for the most part.

fbwidow, I don't understand why your ss isn't allowed to talk to you. He's 20. He can make whatever decision he wants. Your kids can also choose to live with you. Odds are that if your H was the one that was unfaithful, they'd rather be with you since they're likely mad at him. I know we were and that my brother, who was only 13 when all this happened, (sister and I were in our 20s), wanted to be with my mom and my dad didn't fight her over that.

Yes, I can handle having my kids all the time. If I could, I would. My job now is basically an 8 hour a day job and I get paid well enough that I can afford a nanny if I need one to watch the kids while I work.

Thing is, I'd rather have no social life and be with my kids all the time than leave them with someone else so I can go out. That's the difference between her and I. I can't prove negligence, but I can show that she leaves them with 3rd parties often while I would rather watch them myself and stay home while they sleep than go out once they're in bed and leave them with someone else.

I AM a better parent than her. Not to say she doesn't do a good job when she has them, but that's the thing. She doesn't have them all that much. She works until 5:30 or 6 and the kids go to bed at 7:30, 8PM. The nanny watches them most of the day. When the weekends come she gives them to me so she can go shopping and now I think she'll do it so she can go out clubbing and on dates.

Fine with me. The more she does it, the more she sets herself up to let me have custody. I'm 33 and done with the clubbing. Would be glad to give up women too until they're older. She's 26 going on 13 and can't get enough of dating many different men. I don't think she's having sex with them, but this is all she does on the weekends. I even ran into her at the mall one weekend and saw her on a date with a guy that I later found out had a gf! Thing is, she knew he had a gf and didn't care! I then saw her kissing him in the mall parking lot.

This incident led me to break down and I ended up in the hospital that night because I admitted myself in for being so depressed. My blood pressure was 205/105. One of the worst days of my life. Spent 6 days in the hospital.

I told my lawyer that I was afraid she'd try to use this against me, but she says that the court would commend me for having the maturity and presence of mind to seek help and recognizing I was in trouble.

Thing was, it wasn't seeing my ex kiss someone else that did it to me. It was seeing my 4 year old daughter's face contorted in confusion and tears and looking at me and saying, "I miss you, daddy" as I strapped her in the car. That broke my heart like you wouldn't believe. I still have a hard time telling that story without breaking down.

That's what hurts the most. Not having the kids. If I could have them and not deal with my ex, I'd be happy. My ex can do whatever the ****** she wants with her life. I just want my kids and would give up everything for them. I left the AF so I can be with them and never have to leave them again.


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Papa, go for more visitation or custody. I don’t know what MD’s rules are, but you may have a fair chance. Don’t beat yourself up for how you handled the situation earlier. You weren’t weak; you were shell-shocked. There’s a difference.

Is it in writing you get the children every weekend? If not, that may be your best first step, before she gets her dander up and resists.

Don’t worry about your children missing you. It’s hard on them not to have both parents at the same time, but they’ll adjust. After they are used to the new routine, they’ll feel secure that mommy and daddy will both be there to take care of them, albeit at different houses.

Empty houses are sad. You may want to consider getting an animal, like a dog or cat. It’s something to take care of, to talk to and to exchange some affection with. I know that sounds dumb…. Still, it worked for me.


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I feel for ya Papa......I was the same way with my 2 kids when my EX wanted/was granted a divorce. I cried, because I knew things would never be the same.....no more us as a family. Well, time healed alot of pain, and thankfully I see my kids all the time. They only live 5min. away. THANK GOD!!! Anyhow, I remarried and my wife has a son that is the same age as my son. I also have a daughter that is 5, and a new child on the way. This isnt the family I intended to have when I originally married my 1st, and when I divorced, but its what I have now.....I thank God for them and we are all happy as can be.

Hang in there......you sound like a good man. It takes alot to come in here and be transparent about your feelings.

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Keep a journal and document everything on her. You would probably have to prove her unfit to get full custody. However, it might be accomplished in stages. It sounds like you have a very good case for joint custody since she could use your help.

I would never ask my SS to choose me over his family and WH's family has made it clear that he would face that choice. I have watched this young man defend his biological mother even when he knew she was in the wrong. Remember that no matter how mad you are at X, she is still your children's mother. You may be a better parent, but they need her as well. Some children will even feel a sense of responsibility thinking that the "bad" parent needs them more.

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My kids are very young. My daughter is 4. My sons will be 2 at the end of the month.

I very much feel I'm the best parent, but I would never deny her access to the kids. As far as I'm concerned, she could come over to my house as often as she wants when I have the kids and I would hope she would extend me the same courtesy. Personally, I think it would be in their interest if we both were around each other in front of them, but I know that this will get harder as time goes on.

I go back and forth on my ex. There are times that I think I would forgive her and try if she was willing to do that. Other times I hate her and want to hurt her. (not physically) An example would be a very strong deisre I've had sometimes to go on myspace and tell every single one of her "friends" some of which are military, what she did to me while I was deployed. I want to let everything she's done out and reveal all her little problems.

I know that would be petty and wouldn't accomplish much except add fuel to the fire. That's why I haven't done it, but I'm sure as ****** tempted to sometimes when I'm really mad at her. Eventually I cool down and see that that is a silly idea, but it does cross my mind regularly.

I talked to my new boss today who told me he fought for custody of his kids in my county and found the judges to be very fair with him. They didn't grant him 50/50, but he still got a fairly favorable settlement.

He told me he and his ex were regularly at each other's throats. They both remarried and her second marriage failed after 3 years. She now considers him a good friend but he says he can't stand her. It was encouraging to talk to him and hear his side of things. He tells me I'm doing the right thing and being smart by getting the kids as much as possible and documenting it. It also helps me to document when I call her house and she's not there and has left the kids with the nanny.

Personally, I want to get rid of the nanny. I want my ex to face the full reality of what it is going to be like to be a single mother of 3 with no help because she kicked her husband out and cheated on him. I think reality will really hit then. I'm sure it is going to be very tough for her to come home after working all day and then find herself having to take care of all 3 alone, feed them, bathe them, then put them to bed with no help. I'm pretty sure she'll look for me more then and "invite" me over a lot more often. Either that or she'll give them to me more. I especially think this will be the case when she wants to date again.


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Mine is the same way. 31 going on 16. The way she acts and talks is like she is regressing to the 16 year old kid she never could be. We married when she was 19 and to this day still tells me that I stole her life away because we got married so young and had kids. I told her the decision was solid and that whatever we agreed upon would stick. I did not push the abortion issue with her at all. I told her that we should think about it before we jumped to a conclusion.

Now when I see my kids all I hear them say is that they never see mommy because she "works" all the time ( she took a job working with her new boyfriend) so theres no issue with that at all. I know what she is doing staying there so late but its the kids that are suffering because mommy wont spend time with them because she wants to go out and be this rebellious 31 year old who thinks the world owes her so she needs to go sleep around as much as possible because she only got laid by 1 person for 12 years now ( her words)

I found out on my birthday after she dropped off the kids that she went over to his house and had sex with him for 3 hours before returning home like it was no big deal. As for custody, I take the kids friday nights and keep them until saturday afternoon and then during the week I try to see as much of them ( and as little of her) as possible. So what I have to deal with is the mommy who ignores the kids so she can go get laid and then listen to the kids because her sister ( who moved in convienently right after I left) doesn tdo anything with them but watch tv and eat all day long so they have no role model anymore ( except for the fat lazy sister in law who sleeps around more then my exwife and the mommy who ignores them because she has to make up for lost time.

I swear when the divorcee files they think its an open book to start screwing everything that moves. I really hope she doesnt screw up and get pregnant again.

As for custody I have joint custody but cant get full because her boyfriend told her to file a restraining order against me so that there would be no possible way I would get custody other then visitation and joint. So until the order is lifted, 26 th of july she renewed it again so I couldnt file for custody, I have to sit back and wait for her to royally screw up and then move in to file custody against her for being a bad mommy.

Last edited by Noahsdove; 07/14/06 09:46 PM.

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I guess the divorce is not final?

Look, she's playing certain legal games to try and set you up. It is CRITICAL that you got get a book called "Father's Rights". It has GOLDEN advice in there. She's pulling a classic trick with the restraining order.

Have you ever been violent against her?

Is there a reason why you don't have the kids when her sister does. Many lawyers can arrange it so that you have first refusal rights for babysitting. If her job is such that it takes away time from the kids and she hardly sees them, that will work against her. Start writing down EVERYTHING. There's a divorce website that allows you to keep a log on a calendar and I've been using it a lot to keep track of things.

You must absolutely get the kids as much as possible. Something important to do during your visits with them is take pictures and video of yourself with them. It can be used to help you in court later.

Good luck.


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If the restraining order is a farce you may be able to get your attorney to set you up a polygraph test. Sometimes and in some states these can be used as evidence of a false claim by another party (particularly one of sexual molestation and the like). Whent he evidence supports your claim of false and unncessary the restraining order against you you may have a libel claim against boyfriend or ex wife.

Get a mean, tough, attorney who believes you can win!

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I have an italian union lawyer, they dont get any tougher then that. The divorce isnt finalized yet, we are still sending the seperation agreement back and forth now. She thinks its going to be a cut and dry affair but its not. She doesnt realize that some divorces take years. As for the restraining order, I have to go back to court again to get the "no abuse" clause lifted. This was on the advice of her boyfriend and attorney because she didnt want to feel threatened again. Funny is that in 12 years I never laid a finger on her and for her to pull that was just another step away. She can have him. I have a few pics of him, he looks like a neanderthal/cromagnon man so I get a good laugh whenever I see him.

I wont fight for custody because it wont be possible for me to get the kids to school on time int he mornings because i work so early


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She's now telling me I can only see the kids on weekends. Says that seeing them during the week is too much for them. It's ridiculous. I live 5 minutes away and simply want to take them to eat twice a week, bathe them and bring them back by bed time. I'm not even asking for overnights.

She's backing me into a corner and I told her I wanted to go to a mediator. She said she didn't want to go to a mediator because it would be too much in my favor!

Honestly, to me this is the last straw. I was trying and hoping she and I could resolve things between each other. I told her that any time I had the kids she was welcome to come over to my house and see them.

She says she is seeing me too much and shouldn't have to see me so much since we're divorced now. I told her that I could care less about seeing her or talking to her but I want to see the kids and be an active part of their lives. I said that I can't be a part time parent and she can't expect me to be a parent if she pushes me out of their lives.

I told her that it was fine if she didn't want to be married to me, but that I wouldn't accept being pushed out of their lives. It was unfair for her to want me to simply stand by when I was the one that put our daughter to bed and read to her EVERY night.

I'm afraid she's leaving me with nothing to lose and everything to gain by throwing my lawyer at her. She's in contempt of a court order and is not allowing me reasonable time with the kids. She won't let me take my daughter to my father's wedding and is not allowing me to take the kids to California to see my family there.

I'm afraid I'm left with no other options since reasoning with an unreasonable person isn't working.


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Ok, hardball time. There's a book which suggests parenting time by age. I think it's the sandcastles book.

It's time for a Custody evaluation. Since you are unable to reach agreement, you need to hire a psychologist who will interview both of you and the children, and you both would take psychological tests, after which a custody recommendation would be made. If you are the caring father you say, you would get more custody than she's offered. (BTW - my X got less than I offered - as a result of the tests and his inflexibility). I can't recall the kids ages, but 50/50 long term is growing to be the norm. Could you handle that much time? Seriously think about it.

And about the wedding, have you lawyer write a strong letter saying you would like the children to attend a very special family event list the dates and times you would need the children. Children need to see their extended family and cousins. Once it is in writing, she'd look stupid to refuse.

My X refused to allow me to take the kids to a funeral out of state. They are still very upset that they missed their chance to say goodbye. I should not have given him so much power.
Right now you are giving your X too much power. Time to stand up for yourself.

Good luck.


It was a marriage that never really started.
H: Conflict Avoider, NPD No communication skills (Confirmed by MC) Me: Enabler
Sep'd 12/01, D'd 08/03.
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I would thrive with 50/50. I'm a VERY involved parent. I am happy to have no social life as long as I have my kids. My weekends with them have been exhausting, but golden.

Seriously, 3 little ones. All 4 and under. Two boys that will be 2 at end of the month. I've developed techniques to watching them alone and know I would be extremely happy with having them with me all the time.

I will take away her power very soon. I'm tired of her calling the shots and doing it all her way. I'm not even asking for much. Let me have the kids over for dinner two time a week and give them to me on weekends as well if she wants. I wasn't surprised by her offer to let me take them on weekends. She wants to live her social life and go clubbing and slu**ing around. Believe me, I'm happy to have them and let her do whatever the ****** she wants.

I will ask for standard at first and fight for more from there. She won't like it because even standard gives me the kids for a few weeks in the summer. That's going to drive her nuts.

I don't care anymore. She destroyed our family and has robbed the children of the parent that read to them and put them to bed every night. I miss that the most! 50/50. There's no reason I can't have that when I live only 5 minutes away.


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If you believe that without the nanny she can't do it alone, you'd be better served to have the psych eval now, before everything is completed.

And keep in mind, if you work M-F you may want a weekend off sometime too. There's alot of work to new homes, and social lives.

If you get 50/50, be prepared for all that means. Don't expect her to help you out. Getting 2 kids out the door in the morning is rough, I can't imagine 4 kids under 4. I watched Supernanny last night, and it took the mom 3 hours to get out the door in the morning.


It was a marriage that never really started.
H: Conflict Avoider, NPD No communication skills (Confirmed by MC) Me: Enabler
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I know I would like a break once in a while, but really, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. I really care that much about my kids. I really could care less what she does with her life as long as it doesn't hurt my kids.

I'm terrified of what disaster she's going to bring into their lives. I can only imagine what kind of man she'll bring in.

I know it will be tough to get them all ready in the morning. I don't mind, though. If I have them in to day care around between 630-700 then I'll be ok for my commute and I'll be back in time to pick them up or she can. I've also considered hiring a live out nanny to take them to and from day care so that they don't have to be there more than 8 hours a day. I'll have to see how my finances can handle something like that.

If everything is prepped the night before, it wouldn't be so tough to get them up and over there in time for breakfast. I also work for a company that offers flex time which I could request for the days I have the kids.

The hammer is going to come down. I don't relish it and I wish it didn't come to this, but I'm afraid I have no other choice.


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If you can get 4 kids up, dressed and fed and out the door by 6:30 am you are a superman.
My guess here is that if you must leave by that time, you likely don't get home until 6 pm (Let's assume an hour commute and an 8.5 hour day starting at 8:30 am ending at 5 pm). Then pick up the kids at 6 pm, get them home and fed and it's now 7-7:30 pm, and time for their bedtimes. When would you actually get quality time with the kids on these evenings? If this sounds right, is this something you want to pursue? I'm guessing you work in DC or Baltimore.
I work outside the big city so that I don't have worse hours than those I show. It's a hassle, even with a 10 minute commute. And when school starts and there are two or even more school dropoffs and pickups, what then?

Perhaps that is why your X suggested weekends only.
I think dinners out is a good interim step. Again, think long term, not just now.

Last edited by newly; 07/18/06 11:11 AM.

It was a marriage that never really started.
H: Conflict Avoider, NPD No communication skills (Confirmed by MC) Me: Enabler
Sep'd 12/01, D'd 08/03.
My joys and the light of my life: DD 11, DD 9
*Approach life and situations from the point of love - not from fear.*
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 483
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Papaof3 Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 483
It's actually 3 kids. Two of them are twins.

My daughter doesn't take too long to get ready. My sons don't either. I'd say about 30 minutes total with getting everyone changed then dressed and out the door. Probably 45 to be safe. I do it one at a time. Oldest first since she's the easiest to get ready. Boys next. All goes quick if I have clothes picked out night before and baths the night before. No breakfast because they would get that at day care.

My job has flex time. I would be able to shorten my days on some days to accomodate and get home by 5PM. Yes, I have a one hour commute.

Their bed times are around 8 and 8:30. Not too much time, but enough to enjoy being with them and seeing them.

See, my ex wants to do this all by herself. Right now she has the nanny, but her visa expires in December and she'll have to leave.

Also, if my ex is flexible enough, she could pick up the kids if for some reason I was unable to. That's assuming she was civil and was doing things in their best interest.

See, that's the difference between her and I. I would work with her as best I could. I would open my home to he so she could see the kids when I have them. She won't do the same for me and she doesn't have a good reason not to. I'd be happy to start off with dinner only and then go to overnights as they get older.

Really, my ex is living in fantasy land. Her rent at her place is about $1500 a month. She makes just over $2000 a month before taxes. My maximum child support to her, not including day care is $1580 a month. Of that, she has to give me $215 to pay for her share of the loan that we have for her car. I'm sorry, but that's not enough to live on around here. She's bitten off more than she can chew.

None of this would be an issue if we were still married. What I give her in child support and what we pay between us in rent would pay for a really nice house. She wouldn't have to struggle, but this is the path she has chosen and struggle is on the horizon.

Of course, she says I should want to give her money than I have to, which is crazy.

This isn't about money for me. Personally, I wish I had primary custody. I've been the better parent all these years and should have fought for primary from the beginning. The court may still grant me that once I present my case. Courts are friendly towards those going through this as they leave the military. I signed away physcial custody because I was getting out of the military and didn't have a job or a place for my kids to sleep at. Now I do and there is no reason why a court should deny me 50/50 time. Throw this on top of her contempt, and I'm sure my case is strong. We'll see what the lawyer says.


BS-34
EXWW-27
DD-4
DS-Twin boys, 2
D-Day-28 Feb 06
Divorced-24 March 06 (no contest D)
Separated from Air Force - 30 Apr 06
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